Nuclear Warfare. Not role claiming at this time, especially before a kohai full claim and a Thoth claim.
Nuclear Warfare. Not role claiming at this time, especially before a kohai full claim and a Thoth claim.
Outside of me responding to you, I don't see what specific person would have triggered that outburst. Those votes were on you from before the doctor claim. That said, Im going to bed, don't rage quit, you will be okay.
Okay, I went back through the posts you linked in #89, and I think there is a fair correction here. I did leave out some context from your Pie progression. In particular, I didn't include the post where you explained the possible scum slip and why you no longer considered it one, and I didn't include your final thoughts where you said you mostly defended Pie. That said, I think you're overstating what my argument was. I wasn't arguing that you consistently scumread Pie, and I wasn't saying that the post you identified was a scumread. My point was that, looking at the progression as a whole, I didn't see enough from you in DP1 to make Pie an obvious protection target over Banana or Thoth.
You've now explained the choice more clearly: you townread all three, Thoth wasn't giving you a reason to think he was a PR, Banana was more widely townread, and you chose Pie because you thought he was someone who could be fearkilled. I can understand that reasoning even if I don't necessarily agree with it. Where I still disagree is the conclusion you're drawing from the NK. In #92, your theory is essentially that if mafia feared Pie, they would have killed him, and because they instead killed Banana, you think they probably didn't fear Pie, didn't have a good PR lead, and went for the most widely townread player. I don't think that's unreasonable as a possibility. I just don't think it's strong enough to draw the conclusion you're drawing from it.
Mafia not killing Pie doesn't establish that they didn't fear him. They could have had another reason for choosing Banana, they could have been looking for something specific in her posts, or they could simply have preferred that kill for reasons we don't know. And even granting the premise that they didn't fear Pie, I don't see why that particularly points toward an experienced mafia team. That's another layer of inference. So I think we're actually narrowing down the disagreement here.
I'll concede that I presented your Pie progression too selectively in #81. But I don't think that makes my underlying concern disappear. The question isn't "Did Magic ever townread Pie?" You clearly did.
The question is whether the progression and your reasoning around the Doctor target/NK are convincing enough that I should substantially lower my suspicion of you.
Right now, I don't think they are.
Pie as "Solid Town"
Magic scum reading directly after ^
Says he still townreads him but casting shade.
Idk the progression is and always has felt wierd. Then he goes full "town read on him" and protects him. The protection would have made more sense on one of his more consistent town reads like banana or thoth imo.
When you get on we need clarity from you about this whole mess.
Originally Posted by whiteflame on 9/23/2026 at 9:36 PM (post #74)
So... I guess we're just trusting that Mag1c has a role that basically confirmed him to his target? Pie, is that true?
Doctor is a strong claim, I'll admit. If no other protective roles come out, there's a good chance its legit. I still have a problem with the behavior of magic and with a fake claim being on the table, its not entirely out of the question that mafia was given doctor as a fake claim. It's not the first time and definitely wouldn't be the last that we've seen scum claim doctor.
Originally Posted by Mag1cman on 9/23/2026 at 9:27 PM (post #68)
Originally Posted by Lunatic on 9/23/2026 at 11:05 PM (post #64)
Originally Posted by Mag1cman on 9/23/2026 at 8:22 PM (post #57)
Originally Posted by ILikePie5 on 9/23/2026 at 9:22 PM (post #50)
Originally Posted by Mag1cman on 9/23/2026 at 2:00 PM (post #26)
Originally Posted by ILikePie5 on 9/23/2026 at 10:07 AM (post #20)
Alright, one of you visited me last night. I know who you are and you know who you are. Confess or be lynched.
that would be me.
And pray tell what you did
I used a doctor ability on you.
Why Pie?
Because looking back at DP1, I don't remember you ever really having Pie as a strong townread. You moved away from suspecting him, sure, but I never got any indication from you that you thought he was a power role or something worth protecting..
lol still trying to cast doubt is crazy
First off, my early scumread of Pie is irrelevant; I had him as town in my final thoughts.
This post doesn't seem like it.
Second, no one in this game, I felt, had a strong indicator of being a PR worth protecting. I townread Banana, Pie and Thoth. If Thoth had a PR worth protecting, he wouldn't have been so open about his role PM contradicting something in the OP. And Banana and Pie gave no subconscious hints in any of their behavior. Banana was more widely townread, sure, but I chose Pie because he has a history of being fearkilled when town.
So we can safely say that the mafia team does not fear Pie, which points to more experienced players.
I don't think we can safely say that at all. You chose to protect Pie because you thought he was likely to be fearkilled. The fact that he wasn't killed doesn't necessarily tell us that mafia doesn't fear him. They could have preferred another target, been looking for a PR, thought Pie was less likely to be the NK for some other reason, etc. And even if we accept that mafia didn't particularly fear Pie, I'm not seeing how that gets us to "more experienced players." That's another assumption on top of the first one. So I guess my question is: what specifically makes you think Pie surviving is evidence of an experienced mafia team rather than just evidence that they chose a different target?
Originally Posted by Mag1cman on 9/23/2026 at 8:22 PM (post #57)
Originally Posted by ILikePie5 on 9/23/2026 at 9:22 PM (post #50)
Originally Posted by Mag1cman on 9/23/2026 at 2:00 PM (post #26)
Originally Posted by ILikePie5 on 9/23/2026 at 10:07 AM (post #20)
Alright, one of you visited me last night. I know who you are and you know who you are. Confess or be lynched.
that would be me.
And pray tell what you did
I used a doctor ability on you.
Why Pie?
Because looking back at DP1, I don't remember you ever really having Pie as a strong townread. You moved away from suspecting him, sure, but I never got any indication from you that you thought he was a power role or something worth protecting..
As I said earlier the justification and character makes zero sense. I’m never claiming my character as this only helps scum further. We’ve already had too many claims IMO
Can you explain why claiming your character would help scum? You've already role claimed, in what way could your character be worse than claiming your role?
Woah there you are. Randomly. Can you answer my previous questions to you, and give some feedback on the game in general?
Originally Posted by Vader on 9/23/2026 at 6:12 PM (post #40)
I don't like the way that Pie also claimed. Looked like he was getting some people to soft their claims that they had or actions but I do not think it is atypical of him to do that. I don't know what information he would specifically get.
That and his activity in general feels off. Maybe he is busy but I would expect a bit more from him. The day phase one kohai push was pretty much pie meta but I would expect him to move on from that type of thing by now and start looking into people seriously.
My question is why didn't Magic go after Kohai. It was his strongest read besides me and he pivotted to someone that he was town reading by the end of the DP. I agree with Luna here and is a good point I didn't think about. I feel like he didn't play whatever he had, ideally, depending on his role.
He played it like he was most suspicious of you but seemed willing to waffle to kohai towards the end. Kind of playing into the exact thing I was saying all day last day phase, he was keeping his mislynch options open and had them catered to go with the flow of whoever was likely scummiest. Him not voting Kohai at the end is interesting, and has me exploring a kohai/ magic team with them doing a half ass distancing play but not following through with it. Similar to what me and magic did a couple games ago as scum.
Where's everyone at? Thought I was gonna wake up and be catching up all day, and there was no posts lol
Okay, I think the Pie situation is actually worth lookingt at for a minute. Pie said someone visited him and basically challenged that person to claim it. Magic has now admitted that it was him. I'm not saying that automatically makes Magic scum. Obviously there are non-scum reasons to visit someone. But I do think this is something we should actually understand before just moving on from it. Magic, what exactly did you do to Pie last night?
And more importantly, why Pie?
Because if you had some reason to specifically target Pie, I want to know what that reason was. Was it because of his behavior in DP1? Or was it something else?
I also think Pie's reaction deserves scrutiny. He immediately knew someone had visited him and made a pretty aggressive public demand for that person to claim. Now that we know it was Magic, I'm interested in whether that reaction makes more sense depending on what Magic actually did.
Separately, I think I'm going to spend more time looking at Kohai today.
My current problem with Kohai is less "he hasn't posted enough" and more that I don't think I've seen a particularly convincing explanation for his progression through DP1. I'd like him to actually lay out who he thinks is scum and why rather than just reacting to whoever is currently being discussed.
I'm still not dropping Magic. My gut is still there, and his reaction to my questions today hasn't exactly made that feeling go away.
But I don't want to spend another entire DP arguing with him while everyone else gets ignored.
So right now I want:
Magic explain the Pie visit.
Pie explain what you expected the visitor to be doing and why you thought they should confess.
Kohai give me your actual current scum pool and explain the progression that got you there.
Then I'll decide where I want my vote.
Originally Posted by ILikePie5 on 9/23/2026 at 8:07 AM (post #20)
Alright, one of you visited me last night. I know who you are and you know who you are. Confess or be lynched.
How would you know who visited you and why would that make them scum automatically? You not being dead is a good sign already that it wasn't neccesarily a scum visit, and if you were roleblocked you wouldn't know who visited you. So calling attention to this like that is weird if you are town.
Originally Posted by Mag1cman on 9/23/2026 at 1:16 PM (post #29)
Originally Posted by Mag1cman on 9/23/2026 at 3:11 PM (post #28)
Originally Posted by Lunatic on 9/23/2026 at 4:03 AM (post #6)
With Banana dead, do you think your read on me changes at all? Do you think the people defending me were more likely to be town, or do you think scum could have just let that argument happen?
If not Vader, who was your strongest scumread outside of me yesterday, and why did you not push that harder?
Banana was widely townread. She was a logical choice for an NK off that alone. Possibly PR hunting with her flip, but I don’t know what looked investigative about her in her posts. Possibly luck, but maybe they saw something in her.
So with that in mind, it doesnt change a thing about how I see you.
The accusatory language in that last sentence is hilarious. Vader was my top scumread, ofc I was going to push that. And yeah you flew up my rankings over Whiteflame… why I would I push my 3rd choice when Vader and Lunatic are right there?
I asked every single person in the game questions, some more than you. You are the only person who took it as "accusatory" at least so far. Got your defenses up a little bit man.
Originally Posted by Vader on 9/23/2026 at 4:10 AM (post #16)
Originally Posted by Lunatic on 9/23/2026 at 3:12 AM (post #11)
Vader, since you replaced into Jen's slot, I want to separate what came from Jen's slot versus what you're bringing in yourself.
After reading DP1, who do you think was actually doing the most genuine solving? Was there anyone who looked like they were just following the direction of the game?
This is a tough question. I think in terms of game solving I would have to look to you or even Whiteflame at this point. Kohai I believe is following the flow of the game. Just didn’t give enough substance to warrant me(1) a vote besides not wanting themselves to get vtl’d. No siginifcant substance and the pushback of them not wanting to claim cuz tree stump irked me the wrong way. Looking back should have pushed Kohai more after tree stump claimed but I always feel weird targetting Kohai every time
Looking back at your earlier reads, you were skeptical of Magic's progression but also didn't seem fully committed to that push. Was Magic actually your strongest scumread, or was he just the easiest person to pressure at the time?
Yes and I will 100% stand by this. I am not an aggressive voter in the early stages of the game at all. I’m not voting unless I know I want to lynch. Also to be even more honest I lost track of time and thought we had more time to vote
Who do you think was the most suspicious person that survived DP1, and why did the game not end up there?
Kohai and Magic. They took advantage of no real target during DP1 and shifted the narrative over to me with Magic controlling the wagon and Kohai going unnoticed
If you had to vote someone right now who would it be and why?
Kohai took a stronger leap reading DP1 over than Magic, but I think either/or work
Thankyou for the responses, they are helpful.
I have never heard of vaccuum decay lol
Sorry for spam posting guys, want to get day phase two off kicking. We mislynched and I am pissed, I want this day phase to be more productive than last. And I know I didn't help much day phase one by doing so much back and forth with magic. Sometimes I can't help myself when I get in "debate" mode like that. My gut is still screaming at me that it could be magic, and I am doing my best to temper that for fear of falling victim to tunnel vision and causing more of the same of what we had last day phase, so I am going to do my best to explore all options before redigging that back up with magic.
Vader, since you replaced into Jen's slot, I want to separate what came from Jen's slot versus what you're bringing in yourself.
After reading DP1, who do you think was actually doing the most genuine solving? Was there anyone who looked like they were just following the direction of the game?
Looking back at your earlier reads, you were skeptical of Magic's progression but also didn't seem fully committed to that push. Was Magic actually your strongest scumread, or was he just the easiest person to pressure at the time?
Who do you think was the most suspicious person that survived DP1, and why did the game not end up there?
If you had to vote someone right now who would it be and why?
Pie, I want to revisit your slot a little because you were one of the main conversations early in DP1, but I don't think we ever really got a complete picture of where you were at.
Looking back at your pressure on Kohai, what was your actual goal there? Were you mainly trying to get a reaction, test his claim, force activity, or were you genuinely leaning toward him as scum?
If you didn't suspect him, at what point did you move away from Kohai as a serious suspect? Was there something specific that changed your mind, or was it more that other people became more interesting? He actually had a decent wagon on him at the end, and even though he was refusing to claim you still chose to go with vader, which I find very interesting.
Who are your top two scumreads right now, and what is the strongest piece of evidence against each?
Your PM information has been a major part of your reads. Now that we have deaths, what conclusions can you actually draw from it?
Who do you think the mafia team is right now, and who are you least confident about?
Your PM information has been a major part of your reads. Now that we have deaths, what conclusions can you actually draw from it?
Who do you think the mafia team is right now, and who are you least confident about?
Whiteflame, I want to hear more from you today because I don't feel like I have a great read on where your head was at during DP1.
You had some early thoughts on Pie/Kohai and the claim discussions. After everything that happened in DP1, what is your current read on those slots? Did anyone move significantly for you?
What is the strongest reason you would have for voting someone today? Not just who feels off, but what specific behavior makes you think they are more likely scum than town if any? Is there anyone you feel you have a stronger townread on now compared to the end of DP1? And what specifically earned that?
With Banana dead, do you think your read on me changes at all? Do you think the people defending me were more likely to be town, or do you think scum could have just let that argument happen?
If not Vader, who was your strongest scumread outside of me yesterday, and why did you not push that harder?
Obviously losing Banana is rough because she was one of the people I felt was actually trying to untangle the game instead of just following whatever the loudest conversation was.
The first thing I want to look at is why Banana died. I don't think we should just assume it means she was right about someone, but her end-of-day position is probably worth looking at. She had moved away from the Magic/Lunatic fight and was starting to look at the quieter slots, so I think the people who benefited from that deserve some attention.
Before I decide where I'm going today, I want to hear from a few people:
I especially want to hear from Magic again because we spent most of yesterday there, but now that we have a night kill and a flipped player, I want to see if his reads actually develop or if we're just going to repeat the same argument.
I also want to hear from the quieter players. Yesterday was dominated by the Magic/Mediscussion, and Pie/Kohai debate and that can sometimes make it easy for people to coast.
Originally Posted by ILikePie5 on 9/22/2026 at 11:15 AM (post #346)
Originally Posted by Lunatic on 9/22/2026 at 12:10 PM (post #343)
Before we end the phase I really think you should give some sort of soft. You are absolutely the only person besides kiggans who hasn't given any sort of soft, which defeats the purpose of a mass soft. Are you afraid to lock yourself into something?
We shouldn’t have mass softed in the first place. And Kiggans definitely should go first
Why not? You seem pretty pro "getting claims". A soft just locks people in into something they can't back out of without giving away real information.
Originally Posted by whiteflame on 9/22/2026 at 11:11 AM (post #344)
Originally Posted by Lunatic on 9/22/2026 at 1:02 PM (post #329)
We've got an hour left. Is everyone comfortable with where their are votes out? Two similarly sized wagons is interesting, probably a good thing overall, but I want to get some clarification from people about their votes and if this is where they are comfortable staying.
Good timing, I just caught back up.
I think both wagons have decent logic to them and, frankly, neither Vader nor Kohai is that likely to have any form of confirmation, but at least Vader has a role that could theoretically be "confirmed," particularly with the possibility of stopping an NK. I can't say anything from Kohai has swung me on my decision to VTL him, and much as I get his frustration, he should know that he'd be a target this game given he was just scum last game. So the decision not to full claim reads a more scummy to me.
And while I've kind of been giving JenKiggans the benefit of the doubt, their continued absence is making me question it. I don't want to disincentivize them from playing in future games, but I can only take that justification so far.
As far as Jen goes, I think we focus on them dp2 pretty heavily. Don't think we have time to really steer a wagon there, but I agree Jen is 100% a problem based on the activity.
Before we end the phase I really think you should give some sort of soft. You are absolutely the only person besides kiggans who hasn't given any sort of soft, which defeats the purpose of a mass soft. Are you afraid to lock yourself into something?
Originally Posted by Kohai on 9/22/2026 at 11:06 AM (post #337)
Originally Posted by Lunatic on 9/22/2026 at 1:04 PM (post #335)
Originally Posted by Kohai on 9/22/2026 at 11:02 AM (post #328)
VTL Vader
thought he was at L1
Any thoughts to lead us into the end of the day? I gotta say the lack of engagement from you hear at the end is not super warming me to the idea that you are town.
My main thoughts:
I dislike pie still.
I still don’t think we should be claiming characters.
Regardless of what happens I will give more thoughts tomorrow
Only pie has pushed for claims heavily. Outside of that we have all been just soft claiming. Can you give us something more? Only thing I have from you is that your character and role make no sense, which is basically nothing.