Mag1cman

Let’s get a full claim out of Casey before the DP ends

yeah I hate that response from you

VTL Casey

full claim please

Imma take a nap. I took advantage of not having to work today and pulled all nighter

Eh. Shining keeps showing up the name I want to grab here.

wait I never got a ping from Mikal for when the DP ended. Maybe Vader-Shining?

Yeah I’ll go with Casey + Earth/Shining, RT as third party.

i don’t see scum point out perceived scum slips like that

Wanna give credit to Rex for the above. Seems genuine.

I think I'll VTL Shining for a claim

TIERS

So I have 5 players I've sussed.. how do I reconcile that? Well, I have to accept I'm wrong on a few.

I want to say the ones with the best towncases are Casey and Rex, simply because I can see some good analysis from them.

Shining is a step down. While the scumcase isn't super strong, the towncase is fairly weak.

From there it's Vader and RT I really don't like. But only one of them can be TP survivor... probably RT.

So for as much as I don't like Vader, he might just be town and getting everything wrong.

I wanna say RT 3P, plus Rex and Earth. I wonder if it's possible Vader was never told the DP ended on Discord....

Probably is best to take the risk and lynch RT.

Not sure who I want to push for a full claim just yet.

REX ISO

DP1 ---------------------------------------------

Felt like he was uninvolved and unwilling to engage for most of the day. I know when he's scum he loves to lurk, as evidence by last game.

He did correctly call out that Icon was just retarded... so credit there. The thing is, he did so little to fight it. "Guys I think he's town but I'm not gonna do anything more." For someone who I know can be more active than that, feels like something he wants to take advantage of.

DP2 -------------------------------------

#158 is very towny. I don't agree with the section about Icon because he had the chance to fight the Icon lynch more, but the other things show good effort... for only one post

CONCLUSION: Slight scum.

finally rex

PIE ISO

DP1 ----------------------------------------------------

#30 I have my gripe with this plan, but usually when he has a plan like this, he's town. Usually.

And the rest of the DP is normal Pie stuff.

DP2 -----------------------------------------------

Pressure on RT makes sense.

My big worry here is that his plan is something he's taking advantage of.

#84- Typical Pie stuff.

Tetris claim is proven and probably town... but not guaranteed. Especially since it goes away in MYLO/LYLO.

CONCLUSION: I would say he's probably town, but I'm sure there's gonna be a nagging feeling here. There's room for tinfoil.

now Pie

CASEY ISO

DP1 ----------------------------------------------

#37

Can you elaborate?

The naivety is typical of Casey sometimes and I wanna townread this. Leads to another post.

#48

Yeah, I'm going to have to ask for a claim here.

VTL Anonymous 

Reasonable, but notice how she did this right after Barney. Hopefully this doesn't become a pattern.

#57

I agree. That read on REF feels a little ridiculous to me. I lean scum on Mhar already.

And it's becoming a pattern. I wanna townread this, but it really feels like someone else has to say it before she can here. Null at best.

#64

Brief thoughts while I'm on my break.

It's rare for me to have an early townread on Ragney, (actually, I'm not sure I've ever had an early TR on him), but in this case I do. His confusion about the Mason abilities comes off as genuine, and I like his thought process regarding how we use our Mason invitations. 

Mharman is a scum lean for reasons I've already mentioned.

Regarding Anonymous… Idk what's going on there. Claiming something from the 16th century is baffling. I can't imagine that he'd be told to claim that by a partner, but I also can't believe it's an accurate description of his character, unless Mikal just decided to be really weird about what characters he decided to include in this game. I don't think that's the explanation, however. Which leads me to believe that he's either fakeclaiming and doing a really terrible job of it, or just really, really confused about what's going on here. Not sure which one I believe more tbh.

Everyone else so far is pretty much null.

Thoughts seem legit until the last one... fencesitting. Tone feels off.

#73

I was going to say that it's weird that Wylted hasn't said anything yet, but I guess he's not in this one.

Lowkey towny cause I'd expect scum to pay more attention to the player list.

DP2 ------------------------------------------------------

#64

I don't like RT's claim. Beloved Princess is inherently a scummy claim. It's like Super Saint in that deflects lynches while the variant also provides a convenient excuse for staying alive late in the game. Though I will grant that it does seem trendy on DART/DC right now. However, in terms of behavior, I'm still not crazy about RT. The sudden hammer surprised me, idk why Luna would tell him to do that, and he's dead now so we just have to take him at his word for that.

Reasonable.

#68

Responding to this now - fair point, but I think it became pretty obvious pretty quickly that Anonymous was probably going to be the DP1 lynch yesterday, and I think it was probably solvable that he was either lying for some strange reason or just completely misunderstanding this game when he said he was from the 16th century. It was so far outside of what everyone else was claiming, and I don't think any game from that long ago can really be considered 'retro' per se. Like at that point, it's older than retro, it's just old.

That being said, I will say that that Survivor question was more likely to come from town you than scum you, so you're not in my scum radar anymore for the time being.

Yeah dude. Totally solvable. Wonder if there's an informed perspective there. It's funny cause she was 3rd on that wagon, now suddenly it was completely solvable and now means I could've been doing whatever conspiracy. Also kinda jarring that I've been soft-pushed twice, only for her to back off both times.

#91-94 Some fair points and fine analysis.

#95 I do like the question asked here.

#125

I think you have some good thoughts here, but I'm not certain Luna was actually Janitored. I was surprised to see that Luna didn't flip today, as the whole Mason thing this game seemed like it would make a Janitor low utility for the scum team. Like, you'd possibly still be able to steal someone's role, but only if they weren't already in a chat with a townie, so there's a lot of luck involved. I think it's more likely that Luna simply had a role that didn't flip for some reason. WF sort of already hinted at that.

This is some ridiculous analysis here. Where did Whiteflame hint at such a thing? Seems scummy because it's either TMI with Whiteflame as the teammate (hard for me to find reasons a TR on Whiteflame is wrong), or TMI based on speculation someone had said in scum chat.

#197

Going to respond to the second half of this first, because I vehemently disagree - scum could not have 'easily' faked being in a Mason chat with anyone other than a partner, because otherwise they would have been contradicted. The only claim regarding Mason chats right now that is even theoretically possibly a lie is RT claiming to have been in a Mason chat with Luna, and that's just because of the sudden hammer. If he had waited slightly longer to hammer, we could have all outed who we invited. And besides, I feel like you're totally missing the point I was making here, which is that a Janitor in this game would be weak because of how limited scum would be in using it - using it on anyone who is not exclusively in a Mason chat with you would be a huge risk, because they may have told their Mason buddy about their character and role (like Luna did to you). A Janitor would be so narrowly useful that it just doesn't make much sense to me to include it in a game like this.

As for you 'hinting' at Luna's role being flipless - yeah, that was just me mixing up my memory of what you said with my own ideas about the game. I did remember you saying that you knew something about his role and that you weren't going to share all the details yet (fair enough). I guess I conflated that in my mind with my own conclusions about Luna more likely being flipless than being Janitored.

Good points. Something about the way she talks just feels... off. Like overly cordial.

CONCLUSION: I feel off about her, but she keeps making decent points. The exception is the hypocritical thoughts on Icon. Slight scum.

Casey next

Unvote

what's the point of asking people for their timestamps?

RAGNAR ISO

DP1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

#45 + 47

I hate to do this, but we're going to need a full claim from you. 16th Century is so far outside of the expected, since the rest of us are early video games.

vtling for pressure.

VTL AnonYmous_Icon

As an extra reminder, do NOT copy/paste from your private message. Paraphrase only.

These look towny, especially the latter, Scum Ragnar has no reason to say that last line.

And that's DP1 concluded. Nothing stuck out to me. Bothers me cause he did nothing but offer advice... no reads of his own so far.

DP2 ---------------------------------------------

#51 first reads of the game. Two reads. Wow.

#165-166

I was initially disappointed with the delayed hammering, until I saw that there had been a surge in activity (a delay to actually discuss something, is different than just running down the clock).

Casey didn't mention anything about it, but I was like first or second on the kill Icon wagon (so no point in anyone pressuring me to vote when I had already voted), but he also doesn't chat much at all in Discord from what I've seen.

Got a small question for everyone: What time and day did your mason chats start?

He does try to be as helpful as possible... everywhere except reading people.

CONCLUSION: Slight town. Would like to see more. <Rand, but not by much.

Worth noting that NK might be designed to frame RT, but that doesn't make him town. If scum failed to see the TP, they can do that.

Barney next

Whiteflame aint just towny he the whole dang city

WHITEFLAME ISO

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#24

Alright, sleep helps.

My game is also from the 90s. Actually played this one around the time it came out on my Game Boy.

Regarding the Mason, is there a way we want to use this as a group or are we just going random with it? I think there is some value in having everyone publicly verify who they’re in a PM with so that we can keep track.

If he's scum he limits his own fake claim even further. I had a brief fear that he was attracting everyone to him for mass-buddying. Suggests a good idea. With what he claimed to me, I doubt he limits himself like that as scum.

#31 is similar planning. Towny.

#100

I’ll also hold off on voting until Icon posts again. I want to give him a chance to provide clarification, and if we don’t get a clear claim and a reason why he seems to be pushing chess when it’s pretty clear that that is not his claim, then he’s my vote.

Towny.

DP2 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

#27

So I guess Icon wasn’t the Survivor he seemed to claim, even if he was Frogger. I’ll be damned.

I chose Vader as my target. And yes, as has been said already, I was invited by Luna.

I was informed that his character was Mario and did inform him that I was Kirby. I was also given some tidbits about his role that I’ll keep to myself. He did say he was recruited by RT. He gave me some insight into his role that I’ll keep to myself. Apart from that, he posted some scattered thoughts about likely characters and the likelihood of certain claims being real, but nothing that’s going to be all that relevant.

Informing town of Mario here is towny. It's all towny here.

#40 is towny.

#107 is towny.

#161... #180. Towny.

I don't know how else to say it but he radiates town energy. Based on what I know in our mason chat he's towny. I think I'll stop the ISO here. You guys can guess the conclusion, I'm sure.

ISOing Whitelfame now.

I'll give credit and say that 173 from Vader is a towny post

whiteflame next. Think he's town but imma double check

Make your town case.

RT ISO

DP1 ------------------------------------------------------

#57

VTL Mag1c.

That post above feels extremely forced. I am also not a fan of him trying to read someone because of their enterance 

If he really missed the reaction bait I was doing, whatever. But part of me wonders if he was doing some reaction bait of his own here and if so I townread it.

#66 + 69

This post is quite telling. If ILikePie was mafia he would know the answer to this question and wouldn't need to ask it publicly. If he were mafia then he might ask this question publicly as a fake dumbtell. I'll be keeping a close eye on pie throughout the day phase. 

VTL ILikePie

Looks like fence-sitting, but I think the vote reveals this to be reaction bait.

#137-138

Unvote

while I catch up. I am masons with Lunatic. My flavor is chrono trigger

After catching up and reviewing the game state with my mason buddy I believe it’s hammer time.

VTL Icon

Pops in and ends the DP right after I asked people not to (I should've just unvoted -_-). Claims Chrono Trigger out of nowhere. I thought it was NK bait (towncase point #4- unredacted), but RT later explained this to be because someone asked him to (Lunatic? Why does Lunatic need a list of character claims?). So RT didn't have NK bait on his mind... while allegedly being beloved princess. Doesn't strike me as the proper thought process for the role.

However, it isn't the thought process for janitor either. A janitor wouldn't want to limit his own fake claim like this.

DP2 -------------------------------------------------------------

#18

Per my mason chat here is all the information I got:

-Whiteflame is in mason chat with supa + one other person

-Had a town read on Ragnar due to his misunderstanding of mason role

-When I hammered I asked him why icon was being so heavily lynched and explained that he claimed the flavor of his game was from the -16th-17th century and assumed he messed up his fake claim

-When I asked him if I should hammer he said to go ahead

Lowkey I buy that Lunatic decided he just wanted the DP. :eyeroll: Anyway, all very informative. Tells me something about Whiteflame, which I'll get into later. RT willingness to be as informative as possible is good.

#19

@Whiteflame - what can you tell us about Lunatic? You were in a PM with him. Did he give you any valuable information?

Seems genuine on the surface. Digging deeper, you'd think Lunatic would've given RT his character, considering that RT probably gave Lunatic his character before outing it publicly. Idt you just go with trading those things. But, digging even deeper: The same must be true for Whiteflame. RT might know this. Possibly a way of testing Whiteflame.

#38

For full claim:

If I'm lynched during the day phase the next day phase is skipped. If mafia kills me in the night the next day phase is skipped. Basically it is in everyone's best interest in keeping me alive.

Chrono Trigger - Beloved Princess. The justification he gave later is a bit of a stretch, but I can kind of understand it: Reading about the game, the characters do jump around and skip time a bit, and failing to stop a threat in prehistory (Lavos) can result in the destruction of a nation in the future.

The big thing here is, what else could Chrono Trigger be? As much as a stretch it is, the only other thing I can think of here is some sort of time cop/tracker/watcher like Earth had in CoD Mafia. A very stupid gambit from RT if that's the case.

Chrono Trigger is from the 90s, so it's not like he could've stolen it from Lunatic. It would have to be his real character... at which point he would need to give the claim to a teammate. However, both possible teammates aren't from the 80s either.

Now Pie has an interesting theory: RT is a survivor. He didn't kill Lunatic, and the whole claim is fake (fake character as well?). One thing I notice: Prior to claiming Chrono Trigger, RT didn't say what decade he's from- in other words, he never limited his own fake claim. Lunatic gave the idea prior to #57, so what gives? It's very scummy and the towncase requires him to have really dropped the ball there.

If he's reaction baiting, it's possible he's looking for mafia for a different reason.

I will say, however... isn't beloved princess as town kinda busted here?

8v2+1

DP1: Mislynch + NK

6v2+1

DP2: Mislynch on BP + 2NKs

3v2+1: Town just loses

And a 9v2 is just unfair to scum. Earlier I concluded it necessitated a survivor, but this goes deeper: It could also be a reason not to have a BP, whether or not survivor exists. Keep in mind if there's no protective here (in the sense that baiting the NK saves a townie), there's one less protective needed in the case of BP.

Also: Chrono Trigger has many different endings depending on player choice. A survivor left alive late game (usually a 1v1+1) is considered a kingmaker scenario, where one player's choice decides which faction wins. A survivor could side with the town, although they usually side with the mafia.

#129

I claimed because he asked me to. He said he was compiling a list of flavor claims.

RT's later explanation. Again, I was expecting something like "I was baiting an NK" here.

#130

I'm developing a hypothesis that one of the people Lunatic was in a mason chat with is mafia and that's why they killed lunatic.

A scumread on Whiteflame. Let's hear it.

#134

I really want to take some more time in reading the threads. I want to avoid the big mistake I made last day phase by hammering too soon.

This seems genuine, especially with how much he responds to while catching up.

#152

If Pie is a popular wolf then this is the most scum sided game in history. I'm treating pie as almost conf town

This post looks good.

#161 is Whiteflame's post but it looks bad for RT.

CONCLUSION: There is SO MUCH to evaluate with RT. That would make him a good information lynch, but there's a very high risk: We could lose the game on the spot if he's actually a beloved princess.

And yet, there's a LOT to the case that he's 3P it explains all the scummy behavior, and fins a way where even some of the towny behavior isn't so towny. Some of it. Most likely, he's survivor for so many different possible reasons. It is mutually exclusive with Vader being a 3P survivor, however. I do NOT think RT is mafia.

RT next.

Just to get something out of you, I wanna see you make your own towncase.

SHINING ISO

DP1------------------------------------------------------------

#25

I'I'm from the 80s as well.

80s. Can make use of Lunatic's role.

#35

I would suggest something like picking the person under you on the player list and the person on the bottom picks the top player on the list.

Solves Whiteflame's problem, but ruins Pie's plan.

#53

There was no thought process. There's probably no ideal plan, but so long town doesn't derp its way to mislynches, we'll be fine methinks.

No, really??? #35 and #53 are where I need the certified Earth experts (if there are any) to help. Contributing nothing, no reads except the sus everyone had on Icon for his claim.

#129

The site is 100% buggy. I had a timestamp fuck up in my PM with Mikal.

Fake and gay. Pretty sure Mikal went with Discord for everyone. It's possible he went with DCC PMs for Shining, but I don't like how easily this could be a "hey look I used site PMs, I'm town!" type thing.

DP2 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

#14

Any insights? Did Lunatic reveal his character?

Wants to know if people know Lunatic's character. On the surface, reasonable ask. But why not just ask for all information? Pairs well with DP1 #25.

#62

Anyway, Whiteflame is town. I couldn't really get a good read on him on our mason DM and we haven't really been talking, but we did share our characters. I think if Whiteflame outed what Lu atics character is, then hes town. Although, he could still be scum.

First thing that looks very genuine. Don't like the last sentence, but I'm willing to shrug it off as Earth being Earth. yada yada stream of consciousness. Wish he would've given his reasoning for it, but whatever.

#178

Pie is probably town. I'll reread since DC is back.

At least contributes a read here and there.

CONCLUSION: A few things seem off, but the hard evidence is *very* lacking. Legit everything I posted has a town explanation that exists, but it's all just weird. I want to say slightly scummy. Odds of being mafioso are >rand, but not by much.

^^ Hard for me to buy, but if you really wanna argue it, go ahead.

Towncase on Vader is that he's so busy he can't do a single thing this game, including reading people.