Originally Posted by Wryly on 11/11/2026 at 2:49 PM (post #49)
Lessons I learned this game:
Bafflingly, PGO is non-compulsive on other sites. How does that even work.
I never saw this on Mafiascum or MU, I honestly have no idea where he got the idea. I've been playing mafia on and off for a long time and I've literally never seen a non-compulsive PGO - but the role is rarely used because of how swingy it is. I haven't played on like discord servers and 'werewolf' and stuffy so maybe they have some bizarre new meta where it's xshot.
Originally Posted by Wryly on 11/11/2026 at 1:24 PM (post #34)
Putting me at L-1 was just incredibly unfortunate judgment, especially when wylted hadn't voted yet. You know wylted is an impulsive voter, you don't give him that much slack to fuck up. Him hammering me threw a monkey wrench into your ability to townread him at MYLO. Combined with the way he was bullying for a quick end to the DP it tipped you into a behavioral scumread that completely threw off your ability to correctly scumhunt.
Yeah, I had a post on that that DP and feel awful about it. I had to close out the app to get on the train and get my ticket out, and by the time I got it back out again I didn't realize the page I was looking at hadn't reloaded in almost two hours. I thought I was pressuring Mago to take a position on you and was only the second vote on your wagon. By the time I had finished walking to the office and settling in and could realize my mistake you were dead.
Originally Posted by wylted on 11/11/2026 at 12:57 PM (post #24)
the authentic reason for his anger is that he knew it was Mago/Helz voting me would be the absolute last thing he should do.
you literally said you were about to vote me despite confirmed scum in mago, so what's my options if I am about to be at L1 and know helz is scum? I have to hope to God I am wrong and you are scum and just vote you
But I didn't vote you. Because I still wasn't sure. You, according to you, were 100% sure that Mago/Helz were scum. I thought your reaction to that, if you were town, would be to try to finally actually talk to me about the game and what might happen the next DP. From my perspective it seemed like you weren't even thinking about that. From my perspective, every interaction with you that DP felt like an attempt to manipulate me into voting Mago as soon as possible and foreclose on the DP just a couple hours in. It was appeals to my ego, insults, complaining that the DP was still going. Mostly when someone is trying to prod a vote like that it's coming from scum. That sets my hackles back and makes me suspect someone, because if someone is scum a town player can usually make a strong case against them based on the facts of the game. I saw Banana doing that and that's why my read on her shifted.
Originally Posted by ILikePie5 on 11/11/2026 at 12:43 PM (post #18)
This had me go into DP3 already incensed with him and suspicious of him. I started out wanting to generate as much activity as possible as we had literally nothing to work with since DP1 was dead and DP2 was cut way short. The way Wyted was acting after he had just royally fucked us over just wore on my nerves, because whoever went into DP4 would still have to find the last scum and us turbolynching someone DP3 would give them very little to work with. In the end I got pissed off and let my emotions get the better of me, but if Wylted had just actually worked with for even 2/3rds of the DP and helped to generate activity instead of endlessly whining about people playing the game I probably could have been convinced to go Mago. But when he voted me I figured he didn't actually believe that Helz and Mago were a scum team, which he had pushed all day, so it was kind of the final straw.
There was nothing original being posted for the last 24 hours. Even Banana recognized that. It was the same spam from Helz who was acting like he was doing something.
But once again, your only team was Wylted/Banana. Did you really scumread Banana?
Towards the end I was coming around on her (I was actually in the middle of doing an ISO in her in the wee hours of the morning), but Wylted voting me after he had just spent 24 hours screaming about how it had to be Helz/Magoroth made me think he had to be scum. I was kind of extremely tired and irritated and wasn't really thinking about pairings at the time, but in my head I was thinking it had to be Wylted/Mago, just because Wylted can pull off a believable bus, and Mago weirdly, clingily defending the awful claim by Helz made no sense for a scum pair that were trying to bus. I didn't understand why Wylted would be so angry about other people posting - just go awol. He was adding nothing to the thread as it was. If the authentic reason for his anger is that he knew it was Mago/Helz voting me would be the absolute last thing he should do.
My understanding of my role was that I could tell you before the hammer falls to steal the DP and the DP would end in a no-lynch. I don't see how that could win us the game as I couldn't use it after they hammered, and so out them them after they vote, and if I used it before we would simply no lynch, it was 2:3, all our protectives were dead, they would kill one of us, and then we would be at parity and they would win. I was planning on possibly using it DP2 for role confirmation but Wylted decided to randomly lynch our doctor for no fucking reason.
This had me go into DP3 already incensed with him and suspicious of him. I started out wanting to generate as much activity as possible as we had literally nothing to work with since DP1 was dead and DP2 was cut way short. The way Wyted was acting after he had just royally fucked us over just wore on my nerves, because whoever went into DP4 would still have to find the last scum and us turbolynching someone DP3 would give them very little to work with. In the end I got pissed off and let my emotions get the better of me, but if Wylted had just actually worked with me for even 2/3rds of the DP and helped to generate activity instead of endlessly whining about people playing the game I probably could have been convinced to go Mago. But when he voted me I figured he didn't actually believe that Helz and Mago were a scum team, which he had pushed all day, so it was kind of the final straw.
See if Mago and Helz were a team I'd be dean right now. Gg wylted.
Originally Posted by Banana on 11/11/2026 at 7:14 AM (post #368)
Originally Posted by RexFavilla on 11/11/2026 at 5:12 AM (post #365)
If mago/helz is the scum team they can coordinate a double vote. If the scum team is Wylted/mago mago cant hammer till you vote me.
and let me get this right, you are doubling down on this gamble to be petty towards wylted because u dont like how he hammered wryly, so ur going to risk that scenario happening to make a statement? kinda selfish if ur town
No I think there are three possibiities at this point from my perspective, he's scum in two of them, Mago is scum in two, and Wylteds behavior has been atrociously scummy, and the lynch of wryly is part of that.
Originally Posted by wylted on 11/11/2026 at 7:15 AM (post #369)
helz can explain his reluctance to vote mago based on him actively trying to solve the game and partially being retarded.
what is your excuse for not lynching mago when you openly stated he was 80% scum based on all the scenarios you presented?
Never said he was 80% scum. Said there were five possibilities and in four of them he was scum. But all five didnt have equal chances of being true.
If mago/helz is the scum team they can coordinate a double vote. If the scum team is Wylted/mago mago cant hammer till you vote me.
Originally Posted by Banana on 11/11/2026 at 7:03 AM (post #359)
Originally Posted by RexFavilla on 11/11/2026 at 5:01 AM (post #356)
Originally Posted by Banana on 11/11/2026 at 6:59 AM (post #350)
unvote quick, im am not hammering u. if u are town that should prove that i am not scum. if you are scum, well then i guess wylted was smart here
You can't hammer me, I only have one vote on me. And it's 7 AM most people aren't logged on.
really think about this.
mechanically magi is confirmed scum based on voting patterns. think about it for like 2 seconds what me not hammering means here. if ur town u r throwing
It takes three votes to lynch. There is one vote on me right now. If you and wylted were scum together you would need to wait for another town player to vote me before you could hammer.
Originally Posted by Banana on 11/11/2026 at 6:59 AM (post #350)
unvote quick, im am not hammering u. if u are town that should prove that i am not scum. if you are scum, well then i guess wylted was smart here
You can't hammer me, I only have one vote on me. And it's 7 AM most people aren't logged on.
Originally Posted by Banana on 11/11/2026 at 6:57 AM (post #346)
Originally Posted by RexFavilla on 11/11/2026 at 4:50 AM (post #339)
VTL Wylted
is there anything i can do to talk u out of this? game could end when helz gets on, unless ur just scum, which i was leaning u town but now im worried
I mean Wylted has had two days to talk me out of it, and all he's done is bitch and moan that people are trying to figure out the game because all his reasoning is operating from an assumption that he is town that none of us share. And it's an assumption that none of us are going to adopt unless he gives us a reason to. And randomly lynching people early and then refusing to play the game at MYLO isn't doing that.
VTL: wylted
VTL Wylted
Claims:
Wylted: Tracker
Banana: Vanilla
Magoroth: Soldier
Me: Miller
Helz: 1x non-compulsive PGO
Dead confirmed town:
Pie: Cop
Wryly: Doctor
Thoth: Bus Driver
WF Roleblocker
Wylted/Mago Scum Team:
Town has Miller, 1x non-compulsive PGO, Cop, Doctor, Bus Driver, Vanilla, and Role Blocker.
Wylted/Banana Scum Team:
Town has Miller, 1x non-compulsive PGO, Cop, Doctor, Soldier, Bus Driver, and Role Blocker
Helz/Magoroth Scum Team:
Town has Miller, Cop, Doctor, Vanilla, Bus Driver, Role Blocker, and Tracker
None of these stick out as particularly in your face unbalanced.
Will type a big post and vote a bit later, but I'm leaning towards Wylted. His behavior just makes no sense as town. The turbolynch last DP, spending this entire DP complaining that we weren't turbolynching when even if we hit scum we'll still have another DP to find the final one. Constantly, bizarrely saying shit that implies that if we mislynch here there will be another DP when the game will end. As for pairings, I could see Magoroth/Wylted after that bus he did with Luna a few games ago that was super convincing. I could see Wylted/Banana.
The only thing that gives me pause is Helz's atrocious claim. If it weren't for that I probably would have voted Wylted a long time ago. But the behavior just so outweighs even an atrocious game like that. Do I think Luna could give a 1x PGO? Maybe? This game seems to have a lot of odd town-sided roles. One of the things I want to do is go through what the actual roles would be if each person is scum before I make my final decision and look at the balance of the overall town roles.
Originally Posted by wylted on 11/10/2026 at 10:37 PM (post #295)
if you don't hammer before I wake up to go to work tomorrow I'm just going to get myself mod killed and give scum the game. or self vote either way same result.
I'm leaning towards voting you anyway so feel free. On the off chance you are town consider this punishment for turbolynching our doc before anyone else could finish up the DP yesterday :3
Originally Posted by wylted on 11/10/2026 at 9:49 PM (post #281)
I have played in lots of lunatics games over a course of a decade and understand how he normally builds them, how he utilizes PGOs etc, and so they way you described the role I felt was a much stronger indicator of alignment than the earlier things that made me think the opposite.
Speaking of the PGO, I just asked Lunatic what would happen if a bus driver would visit a PGO (target the PGO and another player to switch them) and if the busdriver using his role on the PGO would count as a visit and he said that he wouldn't answer questions about 'hypothetical roles'.
If Magoroth is town it's worth taking into account that after he claimed soldier scum would be deadset on lynching him this DP. Because he's a good mislynch target but you can't take him to endgame because it would restrict your mislynch options to having to mislynch him - for example, if they brought you and I to endgame, they could convince me to vote you or your to vote me and clinch the game. If they brough me and mago to endgame, they would have to convince me to vote Mago. Because if they lynch me mago still wins. It means you have to NK Mago or have a much much harder final MYLO.
Originally Posted by Helz on 11/10/2026 at 3:07 PM (post #251)
Originally Posted by RexFavilla on 11/10/2026 at 12:09 PM (post #183)
Link to whatever post you covered this in with the relevant quotes or succinctly summarize it. You've posted like a billion walls of text and I want to reference it as I dive into Banana/Wylted.
*snip*
I am bolding the relevant parts to save you some time but yes- I have been hitting on this point pretty hard. I can grab a number of additional posts from my own ISO if needed to where else I just shove people to read Pie's ISO and acknowledge what I am seeing if needed but I feel like I am beating a dead horse there.
Thanks for this, I will probably get to my reread later tonight, have a meeting tonight and won't be back till later. I'll keep all this in mind. Still haven't ruled out Wylted/Banana.
Originally Posted by Helz on 11/10/2026 at 2:58 PM (post #249)
I think Wylted is just cutting to personal attacks instead of addressing in game points because they are scum and do not have a good argument to wriggle out of the situation they are in.
This is 100% the impression I'm getting and it's why I think he and Mago might be scum together. If Mago is scum, turbolynching him still means we have to find the last scum next DP. If you're town, you want as much to look back on as possible, not three truncated DPs with very little info in them. If you are the last scum and are bussing though, well that's the situation you want to DP to end ASAP in.
Originally Posted by Helz on 11/10/2026 at 2:55 PM (post #248)
Anways. Rex, let me know if you have specific questions. I think I need to cut back to doing a hard ISO of Banana, Mag, and you. I do not see much progress happening interacting with Wylted although that role name slip I feel is pretty substantial. People do not just confuse their role with something they believe does a totally different function.
I had one earlier about your Banana read I never got a response to.
Originally Posted by wylted on 11/10/2026 at 2:39 PM (post #232)
Damn now I feel even worse about Wylted's retard hammer.
it's only a retard hammer if town loses. hammer mago so we can take the first step in avoiding that.
you are also claiming I am a retard and not scum for it so it tells me you town read me. I am sick of helz shit just hammer
I don't think it's a good move as scum either, unless you knew she was a doc. Which is honestly what I'm entertaining because I don't think you're dumb enough to do something like that.
Originally Posted by Banana on 11/10/2026 at 2:28 PM (post #226)
Originally Posted by RexFavilla on 11/10/2026 at 12:25 PM (post #222)
Originally Posted by Banana on 11/10/2026 at 2:01 PM (post #211)
Originally Posted by wylted on 11/10/2026 at 11:59 AM (post #209)
the argument for rex being scum here is that it's so obvious mago is scum and he is just sitting back hoping helz votes wrong. he is most likely town but I could see rex doing that
i will say to helz credit that it’s interesting how much more conservative that Rex is being here when he was all too willing to put wryly at l-1 yesterday
Pretty sure I hopped on her wagon when there was only 1 other person, someone else put her at L -1, and then Wylted hammered.
Helz was first, mago second, you third, Wylted the hammer was fourth
I just checked, I didn't realize Mago hadn't voted as those posts weren't loaded when I put my vote down. Was looking to pressure him for a read on her. Damn now I feel even worse about Wylted's retard hammer.
Originally Posted by Banana on 11/10/2026 at 2:01 PM (post #211)
Originally Posted by wylted on 11/10/2026 at 11:59 AM (post #209)
the argument for rex being scum here is that it's so obvious mago is scum and he is just sitting back hoping helz votes wrong. he is most likely town but I could see rex doing that
i will say to helz credit that it’s interesting how much more conservative that Rex is being here when he was all too willing to put wryly at l-1 yesterday
Pretty sure I hopped on her wagon when there was only 1 other person, someone else put her at L -1, and then Wylted hammered.
Originally Posted by Banana on 11/10/2026 at 1:14 PM (post #189)
Originally Posted by RexFavilla on 11/10/2026 at 11:11 AM (post #185)
Originally Posted by Banana on 11/10/2026 at 11:31 AM (post #152)
need anything from me? I kinda jus waiting on a hammer no rush but yeah my minds made up. also u not hammering basically confirms that Helz is the last scum so if mago scum and is lynched should be a win, unless I’m missing something. hmmm
What behaviorally makes you sure Wylted is town?
it’s not really the behavior, it’s that he put himself in a 1 v 1 and there wasn’t a quick hammer. so one of him and mago have to be scum and ive had a bad feeling about mago since early in regards to his activity. not a fan of his excuse for it either. basically if mago is scum Wylted is town by proxy
Wylted loves to use bussing plays as scum. What makes you think he and Mago aren't scum together and they set up a 1 v 1 to let whoever survives get massive town cred and coast to the endgame? If they killed WF and rolecopped Wryly, don't you think they would think it was worth it for Wylted to yolo quickhammer the doc yesterday and then they could just extend the game by one DP and bus tomorrow, but not have to worry about their kill failing? Especially if they wanted to kill Pie, who was a very likely protection target?
Originally Posted by Banana on 11/10/2026 at 11:31 AM (post #152)
need anything from me? I kinda jus waiting on a hammer no rush but yeah my minds made up. also u not hammering basically confirms that Helz is the last scum so if mago scum and is lynched should be a win, unless I’m missing something. hmmm
What behaviorally makes you sure Wylted is town?
Originally Posted by Helz on 11/10/2026 at 12:57 PM (post #174)
Originally Posted by Banana on 11/10/2026 at 11:49 AM (post #170)
i get that you want me to engage with the pie tmi but i think your putting way too much weight on it. it doesn't change the bigger picture of why poe points to you and mago. rex's claim is stronger, mago fits the scum slot, and you had the chance to hammer mago but didnt.
i'm not saying you cant be town, but ur asking rex to ignore a pretty straightforward solve without really giving a reason to do so. i'm open to being wrong, but i need more than just another argument about how nobody is engaging with you.
So to be clear its less that I am putting a ton of weight on it and more that I keep bringing it up over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over-
Because nobody will fucking look at it and even consider it. Lol. Thats nuts. You guys can not all be scum. What the fuck.. How is it that I have made such a blatantly clear point and nobody even looks at it or talks about it? Why have we not looked at the mech breakdown of what roles fit? Why are we just going back and fourth as I am screaming at the town to just engage and do a tiny bit of sorting? I am uncomfortable with this gamestate. I do think Wylted is just lock scum and I am pretty lost as far as the other outside of that one indicator that you may be their partner. And nobody even wants to spend 3 minutes to look at it and acknowledge that its a point.
To be clear- Not a single person in this game has looked at Pie's ISO and said my point is reasonable. Or unreasonable. Or that I am flatly lying. Or anything. What the fuck? We are in Lylo. You can not all be scum. Why is nobody even bothering to look at these critical details?
Link to whatever post you covered this in with the relevant quotes or succinctly summarize it. You've posted like a billion walls of text and I want to reference it as I dive into Banana/Wylted.
Magoroth/Me
Well I know this one isn't true and I think making I'm-not-scum cases for yourself when nobody is considering lynching you to be a waste of time plus I don't have too much time so I'll forgo this.
Helz/Magoroth
This is one of the main possibilities I've entertained. The claim is just sooooo bad and Magoroth hurriedly defending it just smacks so much as scum defending scum because you'd think in a town player from a neutral perspective would be at least a little bit skeptical. However I think his behavior indicts him more than it indicts Helz, as it could also be an instance of Magoroth desperately pandering to a town player stuck with a shitty claim on whose vote his fate depends.
In DP2 Magoroth jumped on the reaction test of me, which he could do as town but would be motivated to do as scum. He also floated a Wryly/Helz scum team while pursuing a lynch of Wryly, which if Helz was his scum partner could set him up to do an about-face once Wryly flipped town. Was also scumrading Pie. If his partner was Banana or Wylted it was an odd choice to not scum read either of them.
Banana/Magoroth
In this world Banana is choosing to bus Magoroth over pulling to lynch Wylted. I see this as an odd choice, as I feel up until that point Wylted's behavior was much more objectively scummy and I was more open to lynching him. I feel like by voting for Wylted, Banana could have easily secured my vote for him at that point in the game. I'm going to discount this one pretty much entirely.
Wylted/Magoroth
I think this is a long shot but not impossible. If they had rolecopped Wryly and Wylted's retarded hammer was a gambit, this DP could have been a set-up bus opening with setting up a 1v1 with Magoroth, and therefore letting Magoroth float to the endgame or Wylted no matter which dies. You remove the last protective, (as another had already flipped), ensuring that your NKs will go off unopposed, and sacrifice one scum to make it very unlikely for the other to be lynched the next DP. As the DP went on and Banana weighed in on the side of lynching Magoroth, Magoroth's mind-boggling defense of Helz's claim could be an attempt to indict him in the final DP. I that case they would be killing either me or Banana tonight, whichever one was most likely to lynch the surviving scum.
Seeing as we are lynching between Magoroth and Wylted today I will make a whole post for Banana/Wylted after doing some more rereading.
