RexFavilla

Hmm, I actually wasn't 100% sure when I pulled the trigger but this reaction solidifies it to me - for much of the time I was leaning more towards Wryly being scum. But look at the response. The throwing-everything-at-the-wall strategy especially. Saying I fake claimed so I'm suspect? He was literally in the guild chat where Lunatic suggested the gambit and convinced me to do it, and Wryly can vouch for that. Plus, the refusal to claim. I wanted it to come like a shock of cold water for this reason.

I let that be Luna's call.

Actually I'm being retarded. I'm going to out the cop because if Helz is scum they know anyway, and on the off-chance the cop is scum you won't know who they are if I die. It's Wryly. I'd appreciate you recruiting her if Helz flips scum so I can go down with this ship alone.

VTL Helz

I was mostly absent so long because I wanted to evaluate the cop's claim and decide if the cop was lying to mislead town or if they were being redirected to me, so I was kind of playing a double game. Now I'm leaning towards redirecting, and think that Helz may be our leaker.

The justification is that my character thrives in chaos.

My role is called 'villainous nature'. It randomizes the results of every investigative role which targets me, basically giving them results as if they were insane.

I am going to out my role right now, because I think that the cop may have been redirected to me twice.

This cop investigated Alyssa NP1 and got an inno, which I thought was indicative of a lawyer, as Alyssa was the painfully obvious target for that. He had a conversation with Mikal and was told that night actions were subject to manipulation. Then we deliberated our investigations tonight and decided on you as a target, and he was also told that night actions were subject to manipulation.

Helz. He actually accepted the invite and joined our guild. He has not claimed to us. There is also a third. This third person is actually the cop. His character is Cha Hae-In. His character is the cop because monsters smell like shit to her. Luna came up with a kill-bait gambit where I would claim the cop results to bait the night kill. My character is Hwang Dongsoo. I have a role which has negative utility to town, but which I would rather not describe as it would allow scum to manipulate night results. The plan was to out the guilty and then hope scum kills me.

Yes

The situation is also a bit more complicated than you think it is.

I'm perfectly willing to reveal their name even if it destroys my guild. I just want an absolute guarantee that I'm doing this for a town player.

I just want you to do what you literally offered to do here before walking it back:

Wylted was right, you are a retard. Literally no one is talking about revealing power roles who are in the guilds. And it’s because of REF refusing to reveal who he told information to that we’re in this position. If he wants to play to his other wincon, I’m fine playing it too.

You're asking me to play against that other wincon. I've stated I am willing to do that, but only if I am 110% sure you're town. There's two ways to do that. Wait for tomorrow to see Wylted's flip. Or, for your guildmates to vouch for you right now.

what reason is there for no one to expose the lie if u think he is lying?

To save his ass. I slept on this and I'm ready to work with town, but Pie walked back a crucial step to proving himself.

This is what Pie claimed happened with his guild:

NP0: Pie is guild leader, recruits Wylted and Luna. Only Wylted joins. 2 members.

NP1: Recruits unknown player. They accept. 3 members.

NP2: Recruits unknown player. They accept. 4 members.

DPs: Wylted dies. 3 members.

That 100% could have happened, and in this case TWO other players could vouch for pie and actually confirm him as town. However, now Pie is saying he's not going to take that final step to confirm himself.

This also could have happened:

NP0: Wylted recruits ScumPie and Luna. Only the ScumPie recruit goes through. 1T/1S

NP1: Wylted recruits another player, they accept. This player could be ScumPie's scum partner, who Pie pushed Wylted to recruit. 1T/2S

NP2: They waive recruit to use their roles. 1/2S

DP2: Wylted dies. Possibly, ScumPie manipulated him to do so. At this point, the guild is composed entirely of the remaining scum team (two players). No one remains to counter Pie's claim that he was the guild leader all along.

The player they attempted to recruit also could have rejected the offer. They could have failed to recruit anyone at all, or given up on recruiting more because they were one player behind.

The only way to disprove Pie in this situation is for TWO guild members to come forward, as we know there are only two scum left so it couldn't possibly be a gambit to save Pie's ass.

Once he takes this final step and actually confirms myself, I'm willing to work with him, up to the point of dissolving my guild entirely. Waiting for some answers from Mikal while I investigate things internally, but I do want to say one thing because it seems to be the working assumption among some people: Shining is NOT in my guild.

I'm going to bed soon. I need to reread some ISOs tomorrow and try and get to the bottom of this, but I think there may be a way to solve today. I will trade info with Pie and his guildmates tomorrow, but I need to make sure nothing slips through the cracks.

Whom did you target last night. Was it me? If not, who?

Obviously

You first Pie. I'm not telling you unless I know why I got a guilty and why your knowing that matters. My guild is already at an informational disadvantage, and widening that with zero reason to trust you goes against one of my wincons. Not falling for the 'trust me bro, I can prove myself town' for the tenth time. I'm not the one with the guilty result.

I'm not giving any information about my guild or my role. If you want to lynch the cop, go ahead. Otherwise, we should just lynch Pie. If he wants to stop it, he can pull out this innocent-proving thing that he's holding up his ass and slap it on the table. He's scum looking to milk as much info before he gets lynched as possible and/or he and some of the other players are in Wylted's guild and are trying to pump for information on the rival guild even if it hurts town.

Yes, scum Pie claiming to be confirmable while he tries to shift his wagon to another target... unheard of.

If I’m lying about proving my innocence, you lynch me. It’s just simple.

If you flip inno tomorrow, then we can investigate my guild for possible leaks/meddling.

Character and justification lol? I’ll explain why this is hilarious to me after you full claim

Nah. Why the push for an insane amount of claims after we just bagged scum back to back? Did you guys use up all your fake claims desperately trying to keep them alive? Trying to get as many people as possible to claim before you have to, to reduce the risk of a counterclaim? There's literally no reason for me to make this up as scum, I see no reason to make it even easier for the remaining scum to find a safe fakeclaim.

Don't know why you guys claimed, its painfully obvious that he and Kohai are trying to out all the power roles before half of them can even get a NA off. This is clearly going to be a long haul game with many DPs and NPs to go after we lynched scum back to back. Not a single other person should claim. Keep scum in the dark and continue getting results and tightening the POE net.

I'm the cop, got a guilty on Pie last night. Remaining scum are probably kohai/pie.

Going to hit the sack now. Don't cave to pressure and claim till I log in later tomorrow morning. We've got a long DP, I have good reason to believe this is a scum gambit to milk you both for information. No rush at all.

I'm going to be going to bed soon, need to get up early tomorrow. Please poke Pie for me overnight. I really think there's something there.

The theory that makes sense to me is King is lost wolf who powers up and joins scum chat when Queen dies. SJW is third party who can choose to side with town or not.

Yes, I can see this being true.