Are you Chinese?
Are you Chinese?
I am a decision made by a team, either the Bears or their opponent
I am an event that happened to the Bears, not directly due to anyone's decision
I am someone or something else, like a specific player or coach
I think I am number 2. Maybe 1.
Actually I'm not really into sports and am kind of clueless when it comes to this them-
GO BIRDS. Go FUCKING BIRDS! FLY IGGLES FLY! I hope the ghost of Concrete Charlie murders your fucking quarterb-
Whew, don't know what came over me. Anyway I know nothing about football.
VTL Kohai
I am unconvinced that the backdoor communications/gay pun in your role card was intentional.
It's mod-confirmed.
It was a good call, because I fully expected to be roleblocked. Hindsight is 20/20, things like DP1 night actions are never carried out perfectly.
It's not. I was putting some WIFOM to avoid being turbo lynched at EOD1 when I wasn't even around to full claim.
How'd that work out for you?
I also didn't 100% trust Wryly for most of DP2, it was only at the end that I started to truly townread her. I will probably have trust issues with her until I see her in action as scum, that's just how I am. Our chat wasn't very effective because of the mutual suspicion.
I feel bad for Shining. That was a dirty lynch.
It was bad from a manipulative standpoint, not from an objective standpoint. After all, I knew you were scum before anyone else because that lynch was so off and, to be frank, stupid. This was the first time I was sure you were scum early on in the game because the arguments were, imo, not at your normal level if that makes sense. I was actually going to try to lead a lynch on you that DP but it's Christmas and shit happened.
The problem then becomes how to make all the people who voted to kill him realize how scummy it was and that you were leading it. That's a tall order - people have a natural aversion to admitting they were wrong, preferring to dig their heels in. They'll color their worldview in a way that washes out their own defects.
And it absolutely was your 'fault' that you claimed last, that was a choice which you made. Who else's fault would it be?!
It's a classic case of overthinking. Maybe I'm old-school, but when somebody comes out with a last-minute hider claim, says that they waived both nights, and just lead the mislynch of the only claimed protective role, with said protective role screaming at the top of their lungs that the player in question was scum as it happened, you lynch them. People think way too much about mafia sometimes to convince themselves that the thing staring them right in the face isn't real. Nine times out of ten, when someone being scum seems obvious, it's because they're scum. And you'll feel a lot less worse getting it wrong that 1/10 times than you will if you twist yourself into pretzels to see some newfangled angle to the game.
it was so 50/50
It really shouldn't have been for you. He was claiming that you were scum and you know that you aren't. That's it, case closed. At this stage this isn't omgus it's just deduction.
Why did you think Vader was scum? I thought he was pretty clearly town this whole game.
Jesus Christ this is why I hate being town.
Plus, if I were scum, voting for you would come off as a transparent attempt to bait a townie into following my lead so my scummate could quickhammer you.
So scum you wouldn't be voting for me. Thanks for the... counterargument?
A tip for catching scum Pie: he uses a tactic that I call 'conversation pruning'. He replies prolifically to people's posts, but only to their weakest arguments, ommitting their strongest points. People reply to him again, get put on the defense, and the whole discussion is framed around their weakest points from then on out as the strongest ones fade from the public debate.
Look at the points hes ignored. If he and Thoth are both town, why is Thoth not voting for me? Why did he pretend that Earth roleblocking him should have proved that he 'couldn't commit the nightkill' and couldn't be scum, as if there aren't TWO scum? If a point does not fit Pie's narrative, he quietly drops it.
Wanted to go over how much Pie misrepresented DP2.
So Earth immediately puts Pie on his scumread list.
Pie then puts pressure on him.
Pie wigs out about Shining's scum read of him. For the rest of the DP Pie is on his ass, first for reads then for his claim.
Supas original scum read is me, not Shining.
Over the course of the next few hours, with Pie guiding discussion, the lynch conversation dwindled to a group which includes Earth. Supa, who is busy, drops in and places a cursory vote on him after Thoth character clas the titular character.
This is what Pie calls Supa 'driving' the wagon. Supa is mostly AWOL from this point on, as am I. Pie is the dude who first scum read and put Earth under the microscope. He's the dude who was driving the lynch after Supa just dropped a vote (not even the first vote, as Pie had voted and unvoted him twice at this point).
Why the misrepresentation?
And yet you never responded to my inquiry. What was inconcise and inconsistent about what I said. It’s a fact that JK is a common fake claim for scum RBs. It’s a fact that he completely 180ed his read on me. It’s a fact that his character was the only one not in S1. It’s a fact that he JKed me even though he thought I was a town PR while leaving his top scumread in Ceru alone. So yes, I do think you’re a stark raving schizophrenic but for these reasons. Cause anyone with a brain would see all of those things and objectively conclude that yup Shining is scummy. Only someone with inside knowledge would read that say Shining is a town protective role so he must be town. And also notice how he’s blaming me for that lynch even though Vader started the wagon and he’s all kumbayah with him. Not only that, but the entire town was scum reading him.
I've pointed it out to the people who matter. I know you're scum because I know that I'm town, I'm not going to waste time trying to convince you that you're scum. Not lynching the only claimed protective role without a counterclaim isn't inside knowledge, it's called not being retarded. I have to admit that I'm baffled that town even went through with that one and am a bit disappointed in them for doing so. It's part of why I don't really care about this game that much - if you could convince town to lynch their only claimed protective role DP2, you'll probably be able to convince them to lynch me as well. You can spin it however you want. And I know you want credit for not starting the wagon, but scum is much more likely to hop onto a wagon that somebody else started, that's not a point in your favor. I'm just satisfied with having sussed you out so early, que sera sera when it comes to if town make the right decision.
Exactly my point. Why did they kill Luna? Because he knew that you were the Gravedigger, so logically they had to find the Tracker/Watcher. Who is more likely believe a Gravedigger? A person who is the Tracker or Watcher aka Luna. Why did he neighbor Wryly? Because Wryly also believed that you were the Gravedigger.
Thanks for the confession, I was actually wondering why you killed him. I overlooked that fact.
/in
The fact that Wryly isn't here is one of my biggest annoyances, as she could have easily confirmed that reaction test, since we discussed and joked about it in our chat. If I were scum and for some reason took the risk of opening up a private chat with her, I'd want her here to be corroborating my story dammit.
What was the deal with the Vader vote?
It was a reaction test. He unfortunately logged out before I got any reaction from him.
You never explained it and it was clear that you wanted Pie dead more, but you never changed that vote even though you thought Pie might be "in reach." The votes never stacked beyond 1 until very late in the phase, so he could have been a viable wagon, so why not vote there?
I planned to come back later and build a case. Unfortunately, due to holiday callouts I had a huge chunk of work dumped in my lap and never got the time to. It was why I was MIA for the second part of the DP. I also took (and failed, apparently) the temperature of the room and thought that there was a large consensus that Pie was acting scummy from just about every player. The momentum behind the Earth wagon shocked me because I thought the case was particularly bad.
To be frank, I don't know exactly how holy people treat "confirmables" like Neighborizer, Fruit Vendor, etc. here
Is Pie dead after cheerfully leading town into disaster after disaster while I stood athwart his path, my 'confirmable role' fluttering proudly in the wind? No? That's how much this site cares about confirmable roles. Like everything else Pie has said this day, it's grandiose bullshit.
Also, in Pie's scenario town has:
Watcher/Tracker
Strengthener
Gravedigger
Jailer
Hider
Informed Townie
Dreamer
and to balance this, scum has... what?
My shitty ass role that lets me open a chat with a player?
A ninja?
Seems hella unbalanced.
Profile - Mafia - Comments is essentially an iso since we only have one game going at a time.
Hypothetically, because your scum team has a 1x Ninja that was already used, you knew that a Tracker or Watcher had to exist because you knew I was telling the truth, so you had to hunt that PR to make sure you didn't get caught in the kill.
Hypothetically, of course.
Wouldn't it be easier to just figure out who she town read most and have that person carry out the kill if there are two scum? That would be much easier with a private line of communication through which we discussed reads. The whole thing is so convoluted. I could see claiming that I opened a line of communication to manipulate Wryly and gain information (which, this is wifom/selfpsych, but I would not do. Anyone who ever played scum with me knows how cautious I am). I couldn't see doing that and then killing her when she would be much more open to the mislynch plans that they're claiming that I had. It makes zero sense. You notice how they ascribe multiple contradictory motivations to everything I do? I'm manipulating Wryly but I can't control her and I killed her but she trusted me and told me info that had me kill her. They're just throwing everything at the wall and sees what sticks - they did the same thing to Earth and that's what clued me in to Pie being scum. His reasoning was not concise and internally consistent. To be the scum player they think I am I'd have to be a stark, raving schizophrenic.
He had already soft claimed a protective. That would make him an unattractive NK target, so he already basically limited the pool within they would kill just as effectively as if he had out and claimed hider.
I think it’s Thoth / Pie. If I am wrong I am wrong but that’s what my gut is and after Thoth’s response I’m leaning that way
I think so as well, for the fact that Thoth is not voting me. If he were town, he thought I were scum, and he thought Pie were town, there would be no reason to not to put a vote on me. His whole spiel basically pushes that narrative with great confidence. But if he and Pie are scum partners, him putting a vote on me would result in me not being hammered for an extended period of time, which would out him and Pie as the scum team and town confirm you, me, and ceru.
How do you feel that Wryly TMI'd?
(Post #26) You are assuming that a Redirector does not force their target to use an ability they waived. How would you know that WF runs Redirector like that? Did you ask?
I have literally never heard of a redirector working like that, that's a completely different role (motivator I think?)
The series of lynches which this town has engaged in has been disastrous for town. The first was a last-minute lynch in which we targeted an unclaimed player, so it wasn't so revealing. Even scum didn't know that Kohai was the dreamer. In the second we lynched the claimed jailkeeper on incredibly shaky basis, with Pie implying that he had a protective role, then today he's waffled on that and called his claimed role 'semi-protective'. Scum is clearly between Pie and I, as if it weren't one of us would be dead right now and the game would be over.
He was the driving force behind this lynch. I did nothing but oppose it. If you are town please look at the trajectory of the game. When every single lynch goes disastrously for town, it is because a competent scum player is driving them. Read last DP. Who was driving that lynch? Pies main argument is that I wasn't there at the end of the DP - I had a bunch of work dropped on me and unfortunately couldn't drive the Pie wagon that I wanted. But I was consistently opposed to the Earth/Shining lynch on solid basis while Pie was driving it as hard as he could. I don't think there was anything scummy about Earth's behavior - in fact, he behaved in an incredibly town manner, and rightly called out Pie for that entire DP, expressing his frustration with a town that had been bamboozled to see a case where none existed spun out of thin air and conjecture, like 'I don't know how Shining is scum reading me when he knows I couldn't have carried out the nightkill'. You all know Pie. Is Pie so dumb that he would overlook the possibility that, from Shining's perspective, there were two scum, so the fact that another could have committed the night kill makes this a null point when it comes to affiliation? Earth is a player whom Pie would target for such a mislynch, as he views him as incapable of articulating his case and defending himself. When Pie is acting in a way which doesn't add up and seems dumb it's because he's scum and is trying to get town to act against their own self-interest.
The guy who killed our Jailer without a protective counterclaim because 'he scum read me even though he RBd me' (as if that means anything) is now stretching to the moon to find scum motivation in the one guy who was screaming like Cassandra that his wagon was a bad idea, and who never voted for Earth. He has a very convenient scummy claim which he didn't hint at up until this point and which he only came out with once the tracker/watcher was dead. He's claiming that I opened a private chat with a town player, something that's completely against my risk-averse scum playstyle and which I would never do.
If town can't read through last DP and see this they deserve to lose.