Thoth

Banana's analysis today has been good, in my opinion. There's just not much context from previous day phases to put it in.

I'm very sus of Wryly because of her claim's overlap with wylted's JOAT and because her interactions with wylted come off as theatrical to me. I think the WIFOM of why Wryly and wylted did or didn't do certain things, like in post #86, can be explained by a dysfunctional scum team.

Although, now that I think about it, Banana's claim is really fucking scummy and could just be her straight-claiming. Not sure I buy her claim as town more than Wryly overlapping with wylted, though.

I can't imagine that the peanut gallery is too happy with the progression of this DP.

I've made my case on Wryly and see her as the more likely scum. There's not that much for me to ISO on Banana/Mikal. If you have any more questions, I'm all ears.

Originally Posted by Banana on 7/29/2026 at 8:49 PM (post #107)

did u know this before just recently?

I asked Rex around 2PM Central today and he replied around 3.

Re: the VTNL thing. Yes, my logic was to extend the game by a DP to get more investigative results. That should go without saying. Now that I think about it, it probably would have been wiser to lynch wylted immediately and VTNL later. My VTNL/Commuter play was too risky. But I did it.

Originally Posted by Wryly on 7/29/2026 at 9:58 AM (post #86)

But as for the Watcher thing, if we were scummates wouldn't I have used wylted's 1x Watcher to produce a result I could use to build towncred?

Not if wylted was using his other abilities for whatever reason.

Originally Posted by Banana on 7/29/2026 at 5:40 AM (post #80)

https://www.debatecraft.com/mafia/c/active-games/posts/7q/candace-owens-cinematic-universe-dp3?comment_number=68

maybe i miss it but can u give more details on ur character? how does erika kirk interact with candace owens specificly

My role PM liste a bunch of esoteric facts/“facts” about Erika Kirk and then describes her, apparently facetiously, as weathering the assault from the forces of evil. It doesn’t get into her interactions with Candace.

Originally Posted by Banana on 7/29/2026 at 6:02 AM (post #83)

can u ask rex how ur role stop would work with the lovers? 4 example say u rolestopped whiteflame, and vader died what would happen?

curious because of the conflicting claim with doctor, want to see if u actually could have prevented a double kill in that situation

Rex said the rolestopper would not have saved the other lover.

I may have missed something, but, after looking over the endgames for Ruyi Zhuan and Suikoden, the only repeats I found were two 1x Jailers and two variants of a game-specific role called (High) Adjudicator in Ruyi Zhuan.

I guess that makes Wryly’s claim of being a Watcher at least slightly plausible. In a Pie game, I would have turbolynched her just for that.

Imma look back at Rex’s games on here and see if he has ever included multiple of the same role. If he has, that takes some of my sus off of Wryly. This is why I said we needed to archive the Mafia games on DART.

Power keeps going out, gotta phonepost so may be slower than usual

Imma post in an hour or two

I explained all this with the mislynch math and my Commuter. I was trying to buy us another DP. I knew he was scum, I just had no reason to pull the trigger instantly.

I’m not denying that wylted is smart enough to bus. A Pie/wylted scum team wouldn’t have necessarily shared my reasons for VTNLing or why I wouldn’t have bussed.

Originally Posted by Banana on 7/29/2026 at 5:08 AM (post #72)

i mean, he did get lynched on dp3 tho..? so how does that help ur point?

The bus departed a day before it arrived.

That VTNL push would have been regardless of my Commuter btw

Originally Posted by Banana on 7/29/2026 at 4:53 AM (post #67)

anyways my point here is getting of track. my point is that u 100% would bus wylted, and that either way some bussing was done. u saying u wouldnt bus isnt really a clear here. whether wryly is scum and bussed and whether it was less effective or not is kind of irrelvant

Given mislynch math, I would have pushed for a VTNL on DP2 as town or as scum. If I were going to bus wylted, I would aim to do it on DP3 once more claims were out and more results were in, or at least later in DP2 if it seemed like VTNL would not go through.

Nah. wylted is just too dumb to grasp that willingness to vote someone does not equal intent to end the day phase early.

He counter-claimed her in a way that could easily be played off as a misunderstanding. It reads as theater to me, not as a genuine bus, especially with how adamant Wryly was about how she was obviously not Candace Owens' left tit and nobody could take that seriously.

My claim that something was wrong with wylted's results couldn't be written off as a joke like that. From your perspective, it might have been a bus, but it would have been an actual bus where the Wryly/wylted debacle early in DP1 was not. I was advocating for the no-lynch because of the possibility of buying us an extra DP if my Commuter succeeded. Also, I knew the mislynch math was presumably going to work out so that we would have 4 DPs total if we VTNL'd on Day 2 and my Commuter failed, which is also how many we would have had if we lynched wylted and my Commuter failed since we would have had to VTNL with 4 people on Day 3.

I was at least 80% sure that wylted was scum at the end of DP2. I no-lynched because of the chance it could buy us another day phase.

Originally Posted by Banana on 7/29/2026 at 4:17 AM (post #59)

u did push wylted but then wryly and wylted kind of also bussed dp1,

Arguing in jest is not a hard-bus.

wylted voted her out the gate and was on her most of the dp, even convinced pie to vote her at one point. he also flat out character claimed her and tried to lead a lynch on her, so that could be seen as more of a bus then your saying wylteds results were false.

My guess is that wylted's vote on Wryly was borne of tension in scum chat. As I said, not the most star-crossed match imaginable. Notwithstanding that it was clear that wylted's early move on Wryly was unlikely to result in her lynch.

Rex never told us what fake-claim information scum got. I guess it's possible that they asked something like, "Is there an even-night role?", and were told yes.

Originally Posted by Banana on 7/29/2026 at 4:15 AM (post #56)

on one hand they had only 1x watch so on that basis it makes sense if shes scum too claim odd even since she wont have many chance to prove her role. on the other hand she was the first to claim an odd/even mechanic and now we know there are other odd/even roles so it does give it credbilty but that could just be luuck 2. i was kind of hoping she would have made this a 1 v 1 with a result on one of us, but if she is scum looks like she took the safe route. still not totally convinced its wryly tho. trying to weigh everything how do u think they would have guessed the odd/even thing? i guess mod could have hinted it but that seems basatrd a bit

I'm guessing that Wryly's scum role is odd-night, which led scum to think that there was an even-night town role, so they kept the odd-night part of the claim in so that it would match with the even-night role once it got claimed or flipped.

Originally Posted by Banana on 7/29/2026 at 4:11 AM (post #54)

Originally Posted by Thoth on 7/29/2026 at 2:56 AM (post #48)

Originally Posted by Banana on 7/28/2026 at 9:41 AM (post #24)

https://www.debatecraft.com/mafia/c/active-games/posts/7o/candace-owens-cinematic-universe-dp2?comment_number=174

what did u mean when u said u can confirm urself? can u explain how u thought a commuter would confirm u or were u just that confident u would be the nk?

I said that I could probably confirm myself. Yes, I was confident that I would be the night-kill and that I could confirm myself as Commuter by claiming after there were no kills overnight.

and u were confident you would be the nk on the basis that u claimed protective? evven tho there was other protective roles also claimed? this was in dp2 when a claimed watcher and cop existed wasnt it?

I didn't claim Commuter until DP3. Also, in response to #10 today, when I said that I thought there were multiple protectives left, I was breadcrumbing my Commuter.

I would like to point out that my post #19 in DP2 felled the first domino in the chain of wylted being sussed and lynched. If I were going to hard-bus wylted, I almost certainly would have waited until the next DP to do so.

Originally Posted by Banana on 7/28/2026 at 4:01 AM (post #11)

whats hangin me up is that pie was an every night tracker, she is an odd night watcher, and luna was an even night cop. the odd/even between her and luna kind of makes sense, but watcher and tracker are more known counter parts to each other so why would the tracker be every night but the watcher be odd only?

My guess is that Wryly is scum with an odd-night role and kept the odd-night part in her fake-claim because they guessed that there would be an even-night town role, which would make her claim sound more credible.

Wryly/Wylted being the scum team would explain the apparent lack of coordination from the scum team. I can't imagine those two as the happiest campers.

I can see points for and against both Banana and Wryly, but I gotta say that Wryly is going to have a hard time swaying me to vote Banana after wylted flipped with her claimed role.

Originally Posted by Banana on 7/28/2026 at 9:41 AM (post #24)

https://www.debatecraft.com/mafia/c/active-games/posts/7o/candace-owens-cinematic-universe-dp2?comment_number=174

what did u mean when u said u can confirm urself? can u explain how u thought a commuter would confirm u or were u just that confident u would be the nk?

I said that I could probably confirm myself. Yes, I was confident that I would be the night-kill and that I could confirm myself as Commuter by claiming after there were no kills overnight.

Originally Posted by Wryly on 7/28/2026 at 1:00 PM (post #34)

Would also like to know why you didn't hammer wylted

I know that looks horrible after he flipped, but I was pretty sure he was scum anyway by that point. I reasoned that I was probably going to be the night-kill target and that I would probably survive due to my Commuter. Since 6 players were alive on DP2, a no-lynch followed by no NK would leave 6 players alive again on DP3, and then another no-lynch would presumably leave 5 alive on DP4 for a whole 'nother DP5. I suppose I overestimated how townie I seemed and therefore how likely they were to kill me. That said, VTNLing on DP2 wasn't that bad of a play because the best-case scenario of hammering wylted was being at 1v3 MYLO on DP3 and having to VTNL then.

Originally Posted by Banana on 7/28/2026 at 9:38 AM (post #23)

https://www.debatecraft.com/mafia/c/active-games/posts/7o/candace-owens-cinematic-universe-dp2?page=4&comment_number=111

in this post u say " I also would not have received a message saying that my night action failed because my Rolestop on myself would have stopped me from Rolestopping myself, hence no action to fail."

this is in refernce to a bus driver, not a mirror granted but can u tell me if you are coming to this conclision urself, or did rex tell u this after asking?

Rex told me that and I don't really understand it.

Originally Posted by Banana on 7/28/2026 at 5:05 AM (post #20)

trying to decide if theres anything to decifer with thoths d1 insistance that wryly was actually candace owens now that we know wylted is candace owens. not sure we had any reason to believe candace owens would be scum at that point. and that was a big talking point for him early on

Candace Owens' left tit, which is about as much of a counter-claim to Candace Owens as my role is to wylted's JOAT.

Originally Posted by Wryly on 7/28/2026 at 11:05 AM (post #27)

If Banana is town I feel like I should've seen Thoth visit Pie, because he would've assumed she would Strengthen me and there's no way for a single scum to really do anything about that, as far as I can think -- if he blocks or redirects Banana's Strengthener, I still see him visit Pie for the NK; if he blocks or redirects me, it doesn't work because Banana strengthened me. What am I missing here mechanically? If I saw nothing then they had a Ninja left, I assume. A Ninja would've been undetectable to both Pie and myself, so they could've just killed Banana and not had to worry about a Strengthener messing anything up. Could be they just didn't want Pie's mech wit in LYLO. Or they saw me townreading Pie last DP and couldn't afford to have him in the final three.

I am surprised that Banana did not point this out. Strengthener, per my understanding, usually stops interference on investigative roles, so, e.g., Millers show as town and Ninjas can be seen performing the kill. Not sure if this is relevant now.