Wryly

Helz wrote:

The other part I am really chewing on is considering the site meta right now. Luna specifically having strong feelings about a mod kill last game then turning around and slapping something like this into this game? That feels out of its place just considering where Luna's head space may be at so it feels less likely for Host meta.

Modpsych, but not bad modpsych (unfortunately).

I am still pinged that Kohai got different information from me asking about details on the Mech list. They were told exactly 3. I was not.

Can others confirm if they were told 'a list of 3' or just 'a list'? This could be a straight scum slip.

He told me just a list. I'll ask how long the list was.

Thoth wrote:

Passing thought: If Kohai's role forces him to talk like a drunk Russian, presumably under penalty of modkill, what is Lunatic's standard for how drunk and how Russian he sounds? What exactly would count as a violation? Just Lunatic's subjective preference? It seems hard to define precisely.

It's at Lunatic's discretion, he claims.

Soooo we just suspend Mikal's on-site mod powers during mafia games no problem easy peasy

*massages temples*

We are already giving this Discord exchange more oxygen than it should be given. I'm now in a position where I have to wonder whether Kohai and Thoth were discussing Mikal's post edit in scumchat or Mikal is scum and characteristically grabbing any OOG branch he can to whack town over with. OOG discussions shouldn't be tipping the scales for me like this.

He deleted one of his posts?

Mikal wrote:

"Bro, kohai and thoth are begging me to mod kill you. Its retarded as fuck. Pie does it one game and now this shit starts happening"

Mikal, seriously

Kohai wrote:

Wryly wrote:

I wasn't even aware of a drunk Russian stereotype. Isn't that more an Irish stereotype?

Vodkaa iz dfef russiann stereeotype

Vodka, yes. Being a drunkard -- eh.

Kohai wrote:

Helz wrote:

Sorry Kohai. Not Mikal. Some how some way I constantly get the two crossed in my head and I am not sure why.

Howwww???/// ve couldn't ve more diffrent if we trie

He gets people with two-syllable usernames confused, it's called Two-Syllable Name Blindness. Show some respect. Why do you think his username is only one syllable?

Banana wrote:

not abandoned. who do u with with? I may let u guys no in a later dp if this pans out

My PM says you win with the town.

Kohai wrote:

Frum mafiaskum:

A Named Townie is a role that has no real abilities, but differs from a normal Vanilla Townie in the sense it has a different name from an actual Vanilla Townie. This in itself can be powerful.

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Named_Townie

Teknically, my role is "town drunk" and my abilities is I'm forced to talk like I'm drunk." This basically collapses into a named townie with posting restrictions.

Weird.

I wasn't even aware of a drunk Russian stereotype. Isn't that more an Irish stereotype?

Luna also just confirmed that 0 fake claims were given to *anyone*, so if Mech 1 is true, 3P were given no fake claim.

Kohai wrote:

Re #5: I just got confurmation that I am not consideredd vinilla. Im essssenrjakly a named town.

Wtf is a named town. Aren't we all named town, except for scum.

I also asked if they were permitted to see the rest of the real game mechanics in the list before they made their choice.

He said they weren't, but they could have assumed a lot from the list he did give them.

ILikePie5 wrote:

Waiting on Luna to respond, but I think Helz may have slipped

Confirmed the info with Luna. He gave them a list they could pick from, they didn't write the lie themselves.

On behavior, I'm null on Ultra but dandy with getting a claim from him. Most people here are a null read for me, which isn't uncommon DP1. The weird stall is the only thing that has moved the needle for me, and not by much.

I'm a little skeptical that whiteflame had to be persuaded that Mech 3 had utility to scum when it's something I'd normally expect him to see immediately, but I could be making something out of nothing there.

At no point did I see Thoth even joke that Mikal should/would/could be modkilled? I assume he was talking about something he said on Discord then. I'd prefer we not discuss data that everyone doesn't have access to. Cuz I'm still thinking about it when I shouldn't be, damn.

Helz wrote:

For 1 if I was scum and got to lie about the team I would have dropped a mafia or something. Making it so the town stops looking for alignment tells after 2 mafia die. And its just not a great lie to add or hide a Neutral.

Decent point -- if they were going to fake Mech 1, I would expect them to put 2 mafia, 1 3P, 9 town. But adding to your argument is the fact that it's still a tactic that wouldn't work for long; people would start to see through it when they had lynched 2 mafia but night kills were still happening. It could keep town busy hunting 3P for a single day phase maybe. If you're scum, you'd be hunting for a lie that would give you a much more long-game advantage than that.

3 is ehh. It casts doubt on theme but really people are gona draw connections at some point regardless if 2 or 3 scum have flipped

Mech 3 creates reasonable doubt against theme analysis, which I think is a pretty good advantage. Sure, once everyone has claimed we're gonna try to make connections and discover a theme split anyway, but any suspicion we cast as a result is never gonna stick like it would if we were certain there was a theme split. Also, as already stated, Mech 3 hands them three free passes to straight claim.

4 is totally useless for scum. People would immediately know if it was bullshit and call it out.

5 is of small use. Justifies dodging a claim a bit but by adding VT? Someone claims no role they are suddenly lower value to the town so VT is not the best claim.

Im thinking 2 or 5 and more likely 2 than 5 between the two things. Although it is itching at my mind why Luna would honestly want to disclose that there was citizens. Like.. Thats a weird thing to have host confirmed and 2 would make a lot of sense for the host to confirm.

Citizens?

Banana wrote:

can we try something wierd guys? just indulge me. its about the pms.

what does your pm say. does it say you win with the town or something like that? if everyone could tell me what theirs says exactly i would appreciate it. i might not be onto something here but i just wanna check

mine says 'you win with the town'

Looks like this line of inquiry was abandoned, but what were you getting at here?

Mikal wrote:

Couple that with luna telling me "kohai and thoth" want me to modkill you makes me think it could have been at same time and they were complaining about it together.

Really wish you hadn't said this as it's now going to weigh more heavily on my analyses than it should.

Catching up. I'm confused as to why Mikal seemed to assume Kohai was a vanilla before Kohai even claimed.

I'm gonna be busy again today and will catch up later tonight.

I'm still surprised by the number of people who softed unprompted, especially considering scum were given no fake claims and this very specific kind of softing helps them narrow down which fake claims are safe.

whiteflame wrote:

Thoth wrote:

whiteflame wrote:

Option #4 limits the possible claims to one of those 3 areas. If it just laying out the actual theme split, then why would scum post #3 at all?

I was just saying that this is a plausible example of a theme split, not the actual theme split.

And my point is that there are an absurd number of possible splits and ways to split characters with this theme. That’s my point: the presence of a theme split doesn’t put a lot of pressure on scum because it would almost certainly be difficult to parse out anyway.

Well never mind lol I misunderstood you.

It seems to me that if you were told you'd be getting no fake claims but could make up any game mechanic you wanted, you'd probably want a game mechanic that offsets the loss of being given no fake claims.

Saying there's no theme split allows you to straight claim your characters with virtually no risk, which is preferable to the some-to-moderate risk of straight claiming when everyone knows there is a theme split.

whiteflame wrote:

Wryly wrote:

Riiiiiiight so.

Very tempted to townread the people who have softed early, since that's dicier for scum to do when they've been given no fake claims. It is so hard not to imitate the stereotype I was given right now, but scum already know there's a feminist, maybe a Jew or a Catholic, maybe Asians. I'll hold off on adding to that list for them for now.

I wonder if Lunatic gave them the full list of all the other game mechanics before letting them craft their own fake mechanic, or they had to think up one blind?

#3 seems the likeliest culprit to me, but if I'm right, no one who softed early gets any town points. In fact, I might have to put them on the sus list. It's a good plan: make up a "there's no theme split" mechanic, so now you can straight claim, so now you can soft early to farm town cred. It's not like Pie to soft early anyway, and whiteflame handwaved #3 being the likely culprit with a vague "that would only get them so far". I'll need to think more about this.

Alright, then I'll give more of my thoughts on the third option. I'll note I didn't dismiss it entirely, but I did have two picks that I think are more likely (2 and 5). The benefit of being able to straight up claim characters is one of the reasons to support it, as is the fact that Luna has included theme splits in his previous games. Looking back at those games, though, both of them had relatively clear splits: antagonists/betrayers in Ted Lasso, creators vs. creations in Alien. I don't know about anyone else, but a theme split for stereotypes seems a lot more subjective and much harder to nail down even if it exists. It may still make it easier to character claim if they can make out that there is no theme split at all, but the split being not obvious is a given with a theme like this.

I could think of a theme split for this, and if I can think of one Lunatic can.

Thoth wrote:

Wryly wrote:

This is going pretty far down the rabbit hole.

Think about it like this: If scum have no motivation to confuse us by lying about it, what motivation would Lunatic have to tell us about it?

I took it as standard boilerplate mod clarification, but... hmm. I suppose it's nothing Lunatic NEEDED to clarify per se.

Thoth wrote:

Thoth seems to be assuming that third parties kind of require there to be a theme split because they need to have a flavor that doesn't fall into either category of the split, e.g. in Madoka Magicka mafia scum was the demon cat and town were magic girls, so as third party I was neither; I was a witch.

But I suppose you can eschew a theme split and just declare a certain person to be TP. Their flavor would just be irrelevant to their alignment.

I can't exactly modpsych Lunatic here, but I would presume that a theme split between town and scum means that a third-party won't belong to either category.

My point is that I can't say 1 and 3 hard contradict each other because you can have a 3P without a theme split. I will say they soft contradict.

Thoth wrote:

Wryly wrote:

Can't see any point to fabricating 4.

Which could be the point, if the other four are all real and the point is to make us think one of them is fake.

This is going pretty far down the rabbit hole.

ILikePie5 wrote:

Ok I give up, it’s too hard being a girl

The most girl thing you've said so far

It comes down to whether scum would want help with character claims, help with role claims, or help creating chaos for town.

Help with character claims = 3

Help with role claims = 5

Help with chaos = 1 or 2

ILikePie5 wrote:

Thoth wrote:

At minor risk of OGI, I'm now slightly leaning towards #4 being fake because the writing style seems slightlly out of sync with the rest of the OP.

thats a fair point. structure is pretty different, but thats the scum motive for putting 4 as fake?

Can't see any point to fabricating 4.

whiteflame wrote:

Wryly wrote:

Hi all, I'm super busy today and will be on later tonight

Welcome in! Have you heard the good word? Would you like to?

If it really is just one word, absolutely!

Mikal wrote:

Kohai, you and thoth are retarded lol. Asking for a modkill on me for adding a hyperlink to a post. Like Jesus christ. Suck a fat dick

Remember when people were up in arms on Thoth for editing a joke post to fix a typo