Here's the problem: Assuming you and Mikal are town we now have two outted power roles. if both of you are town one of you is going to die. That's why we need something. If you die we can review your results and make progress.
I feel like I've hinted every way I can to prevent this, and you are literally the person that should be picking up what I'm putting down, so fuck it. I'll embrace the fact that I'm almost certainly dead tonight: I targeted you. I'm the Caroler. Happy? I know I'm not.
Here's an idea: You tell us who you targeted. The person you targeted makes a claim and you can confirm or disprove that.
*sigh* Do I really have to repeat myself? I've now said this multiple times, but I'll say it again: if I say who I visited, it gives away what I am.
In what way would it confirm or disprove something about your target?
Again, if I tell you, I'm giving away my role. Take the hint, man.
How so? Also, is your role / result capable of confirming your target as town?
...if I explained why, this would get super obvious. You either accept what I'm telling you or you're seeking my claim.
No, but it can confirm or disprove something about my target.
Would you at least be willing to say who you visited?
That would be the equivalent of claiming my role.
No, it doesn't. The point here is to try and clear as many people as possible and confirm as many people as town as we can. If we can confirm Mikal is town that narrows down the original POE to two.
I'm strongly learning to Mikal being town.
I have reason to townread him too, but if that's the case, why not focus on either of the two other people in your set of three? By this logic, you've got a 50-50 chance of picking scum out between Thoth and Shining, but you're focused on me because Mikal has some information relevant to what I did last NP.
Still, you're the one who has the most reason to buy that they're in POE at this point, dude, not me. If you think getting my claim is more important than pursuing information you've said you have available to you now, I'll do it, but it's a big mistake.
1. Mikal is in the POE. If I can clear him that brings us down to two.
Why wouldn't you seek his claim first, then?
2. If you are scum and we eliminate you today then that significantly increases odds of winning.
...which entirely defeats the purpose of focusing on the pool of three players you got and expands the number of claims you're seeking to four. Three was already substantial, but expanding on that is even more of a problem with anti-claim mechanics in play.
Did you make an attempt and was role blocked?
I can confirm my night action was successful.
I already said I do not have a result.
The more I keep thinking about this push for my role, the more I'm leaning towards you being town. The issue is that I wouldn't just be revealing my role to you, so how I read you isn't the only thing on my mind.
So, while I'm not going to claim yet, I'll at least give two tidbits about what I did.
I did visit someone, and if you actually knew who I visited (I don't believe you do), you almost certainly would not be asking for this information.
Don't get that, either.
Maybe, but considering that claims come at a premium this game, that doesn’t make a lot of sense to me, particularly since he already has three claims he wants.
I’ll bite.
VTL Whiteflame
I am sincerely at a loss regarding this vote. You should be more confident than anyone here that you have the name of at least one scum on that list of three. Why is my claim your priority?
What is your result ?
I don't have a result. When did I imply a result?
1) I don’t trust a dreamer outright. It’s something to consider
Fine. From an external perspective, I'm not seeing a reason to consider what you've found more strongly than the results RT received.
2) I didn’t say it implicates you. I said I had something on you and want your role and not your character.
If it doesn't implicate me (I'm not sure what the difference is between implicating and having something on me, but I'll take your word that there's a difference), then why is my role your priority? If there wasn't an anti-claim mechanic to concern ourselves with, I might understand this better, but a) we don't know how that mechanic works so even just role claims could be a problem, and b) we should still be pretty conservative with how many claims we get.
If you've got info, spill it and I'll claim too.
I’ve never heard of a scum role that delivers three names to a town player via the mod (the closest I can think of is a Messenger, which would just deliver a message), but fine, let’s assume shenanigans for a moment. Explain to me why you’re so inherently trusting of Mikal here.
If enough people want my claim, I'll give it, but I'd like to understand your perspective better here. You clearly got some info that you believe implicates me. Fine. We've got a list of three players, yourself included, that RT received and that we know contains one scum player. In a game where we know anti-claim mechanics are likely in play and therefore getting a lot of claims all at once is bound to empower scum, when we have alignment info on a subset of other players, why should anyone else prioritize my claim over yours, Thoth's and Shining's?
It depends on how casey divvies dreamer results too. Technically both scum can be on a dreamer result, but I feel like most mods dont really do that for mod psyche reasons. Like if we were to systematically start lynching through your results, and hit both scum, mafia would be pretty pissed. So I feel like the mod would leave one outside, so if your results are to be believed, then its one of the three on your results, plus ultra. Obviously a lot of that is mod psyche with early game POE, but that's where I am at.
Fair take. I don't think we should assume both scum are among that trio, chalk that up to both the odds being low and Casey likely not wanting to put scum in that situation, which is entirely understandable. I'm heading to bed, but I'll put some thoughts into reads tomorrow and hopefully by then we'll have heard from Thoth (and more from Mikal) as well.
Wait a sec. You criticized in the first DP that RT claimed and now you're asking for more claims when we know that there might be an anti claim mechanic.
It is unusual, though if I'm reading Mikal's first post right, he's implying some role-related reason for sussing me. Possible he's just interpreting something Casey said to him or something I said in this DP or the previous one, but if it's any of those, he has even less reason to keep them secret.
Granted I'm a little sus of everyone cause I'm new so maybe I'm just being too jumpy. But like... Why not you claim first then? Just partially?
If it is role related, I understand wanting to keep it secret, though his appearance on RT's results makes it pretty likely he'll have to claim regardless unless he has good reason not to buy them, in which case he should be sussing RT.
That said this could be WF deflecting too IDK (it's hard to sus him out cause he acts trustworthy and I have my money on him doing this basically every game).
Yeah, that's fair. I wouldn't say I'm exactly the same every game (wish I was that good), but this isn't too far from how I act in any given game, whether as scum or town. Others can pick up on more subtle cues that may be more telling.
To be clear, Mikal I think was sus of RT
I agree that he was drawing some attention to RT, but I'm not sure if he's sussing him right now.
So the first thing you do after you join the discussion in this DP is seek my claim? That's a little weird given what we've heard from RT. Any thoughts about your name being among that trio he received?
I have nothing about being fragile; however given that I'm proven to be popular my popular mechanic may have been disabled.
That would be a different kind of anti-claim, but it's possible. I'd be surprised if you weren't informed about it, though we don't need to re-test your Popular claim regardless.
Well, is that the only anti claim they use? Its a little dangerous to assume its it different. Otherwise it seems to leave the town meta of mass claiming your character unpunished.
I don't think we should assume it's exactly the same, I'm just pointing to the only anti-claim mechanic we've seen Casey implement as a point of reference. I think seeking partial claims should be a starting point since it bears a lower risk of making such mechanics usable by scum, and we can work up from there as needed.
How did Casey implement anti claims in their past games?
I'm checking back now. Here's what Casey said in The Russian Mafia endgame:
On that basis, yes, I think avoiding full claims up front is best practice, since we avoid similar mechanics being able to be used to their fullest. While we're at it, everyone make sure to check and see if you received anything like "Fragile" in your message from Casey at the start of this DP. Given the lack of full claims, I doubt it, but best to check.
All good, I like that you’re thinking about this stuff and it helps orient me a bit since I don’t know much about the games.
Though the draw back is the anti claim mechanism. But I want to get something from Thoth, Mikal, and Shinning at the very least
Yeah, I think partial claims from all three make sense to start.
Also if we're going off theme - Caroler could mean Noelle Holiday or Rudy since their personalities are Christmas inspired.
Sorry I'm infodumping just thinking out loud
Not bad to speculate since we don’t know who it is, but in case they do partially claim, we want to avoid giving scum too much insight into what that means.
I wouldn’t put too much emphasis on character claims as much as roll claims.
I wouldn’t emphasize role splits right now, though getting full claims increase the odds of CCs, so there’s value in getting all of them.
As for getting claims this DP, it is worth getting yours, though I don’t think your my preference right now. Wylted was largely just absent DP1 and given that that appears to be due to a lack of availability or interest since you were subbed in, I view it as NAI. I’d like to get Mikal and Thoth in here and discuss a claim order.
Wait so Queen was the main antagonist of Ch 2 and isn't Mafia. So... Which characters are the Mafia?
Honestly haven’t been thinking about the theme split much, but we’ll have to consider what that could mean. It’s clearly not just heroes vs. villains.
https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/database/mafia-roles/role/?mafiarole=Caroler
Did some research and found this role, which correlates with what you received. Seems to match with your hearing music as well.
I townread RT and, at least if Shining is right, this role functions like the Dreamer, so at least this gives us some meaningful direction for the DP. As for what to do with it, we’ll have to be careful how many we pursue for a claim, even just among those three due to the potential anti-claim mechanic.
Also, just noticed that Pie died and that he was the Follower. That’s painful to lose.
