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whiteflame

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whiteflame


Originally Posted by Lunatic on 7/21/2026 at 8:54 AM (post #299)

Originally Posted by whiteflame on 7/21/2026 at 6:49 AM (post #296)

Originally Posted by Lunatic on 7/21/2026 at 8:40 AM (post #282)

Originally Posted by whiteflame on 7/21/2026 at 5:47 AM (post #258)
UNVOTE

I don’t get why this push on Luna happened, and I really don’t like how close together those last two votes were. Seemed like this might have been taking advantage of Luna’s absence at the time. Reassessing my vote on Mikal.
But even accounting for my absence, by the time my wagon started I had already caught up and posted reads at that point. Really sus wagon. doesnt help my suspicions of kohai

Doesn't help mine, either.

I gave the best paraphrase I am willing to give, after being modkilled im not messing around with posting crazy about my justification anymore lol

Could stand to be clearer, but I get it.
I mean its not really the best link. Basically just talks about understanding human nature as a reason for investiation.


Fair enough, appreciate the additional insight just the same.

whiteflame

As for what to do in this scenario, I'm hesitant to just push Mikal here. For one, he's been largely absent and there's a more than decent chance he doesn't even hop on before the DP ends atp. For another, I don't like Kohai's shift to him immediately after Luna's claim and Thoth has spent a good deal of the DP seeking a claim from him. I understand why Thoth wanted that claim, but both of them have only gotten more sus since I posted my read list.


The more I keep thinking about it, the more I'd just prefer to lynch between those two and be done with it. I don't like lynching blind and Thoth said he'd be absent for the rest of the DP, so that puts the focus squarely on Kohai. We have 3 claimed players now between Pie, Wylted and Luna, but I believe we have more than enough reason not to lynch either of the latter two and I'm not sold on Pie as scum. If we have to lynch a claimed player, Pie is it, but while I really don't want to keep getting more claims out of this DP, Kohai just stands out too much for me to ignore him.


This puts you at L-2, Kohai. Time to ante up.


VTL: Kohai

whiteflame


Originally Posted by Lunatic on 7/21/2026 at 8:40 AM (post #282)

Originally Posted by whiteflame on 7/21/2026 at 5:47 AM (post #258)
UNVOTE

I don’t get why this push on Luna happened, and I really don’t like how close together those last two votes were. Seemed like this might have been taking advantage of Luna’s absence at the time. Reassessing my vote on Mikal.
But even accounting for my absence, by the time my wagon started I had already caught up and posted reads at that point. Really sus wagon. doesnt help my suspicions of kohai


Doesn't help mine, either.


I gave the best paraphrase I am willing to give, after being modkilled im not messing around with posting crazy about my justification anymore lol


Could stand to be clearer, but I get it.

whiteflame


Originally Posted by wylted on 7/21/2026 at 8:40 AM (post #281)
Wtf does freud have to do with Candice owens


Surprised me, too. Here's what AI spit out at me:


Candace Owens featured the book The Assault on Truth: Freud's Suppression of the Seduction Theory by Jeffrey Moussaieff Masson in her book club. It examines Freud's controversial 1896 decision to reverse his theory linking childhood sexual trauma to adult mental illness, claiming those memories were merely fantasies.
whiteflame


Originally Posted by wylted on 7/21/2026 at 8:06 AM (post #264)
I have a 1x role cop in my mix of abilities so I just don't think that's in the mix with an affiliation cop.

Basically I am told because she is essentially a conspiracy theorists and good at digging into things I have been given this mix of abilities and one of the abilities is a role cop


So… why couldn’t there be a 1X role cop and a multi-shot cop? What am I missing?

whiteflame


Originally Posted by wylted on 7/21/2026 at 8:00 AM (post #261)
My role has an investigative element so my suspicion of lunatic has increased significantly now


If you can CC him, spill it. If it’s not an alignment investigative role, then I don’t know why you’d bring this up.

whiteflame


Originally Posted by Thoth on 7/21/2026 at 2:25 AM (post #247)
I am going to sleep now and almost certainly will not be on before EoD.


I’m not sussing the absence at the end of the DP, but I’m not liking that your willingness to swap to Luna just pops up largely out of nowhere on the basis that he was tunneling… while saying that you thought Kohai was town despite his tunneling this game. The inconsistencies in your reads have me puzzled.

whiteflame


Originally Posted by Kohai on 7/20/2026 at 11:57 PM (post #231)

Originally Posted by whiteflame on 7/20/2026 at 11:52 PM (post #229)

Originally Posted by Kohai on 7/20/2026 at 11:34 PM (post #214)

Originally Posted by whiteflame on 7/20/2026 at 11:25 PM (post #212)
Originally Posted by Kohai on 7/20/2026 at 11:15 PM (post #208)
FYI unless I get to L2 I'm not. claiming.
Alright, good to know. Personally, I think we should only get one more claim at this point and then make a call.

Can you loop me in while I catch up? How many folks ahve actually claimed

I really am going to hop off after this, but with Pie’s full claim (Ben Shapiro, Hated), Wylted’s character claim (Candice Owens), and Mikal’s soft character and role claims (Jew, some scummy role), I think we’ve covered the gamut.

Agreed. Absolutely no more claims this day phase


What happened to this sentiment? You just got another full claim, one that is consequential and shows the dangers of seeking claims like this, and now you’re targeting another unclaimed player. Seems like you’re seeking claims.

whiteflame

UNVOTE


I don’t get why this push on Luna happened, and I really don’t like how close together those last two votes were. Seemed like this might have been taking advantage of Luna’s absence at the time. Reassessing my vote on Mikal.

whiteflame


Originally Posted by Kohai on 7/20/2026 at 11:34 PM (post #214)

Originally Posted by whiteflame on 7/20/2026 at 11:25 PM (post #212)
Originally Posted by Kohai on 7/20/2026 at 11:15 PM (post #208)
FYI unless I get to L2 I'm not. claiming.
Alright, good to know. Personally, I think we should only get one more claim at this point and then make a call.

Can you loop me in while I catch up? How many folks ahve actually claimed


I really am going to hop off after this, but with Pie’s full claim (Ben Shapiro, Hated), Wylted’s character claim (Candice Owens), and Mikal’s soft character and role claims (Jew, some scummy role), I think we’ve covered the gamut.

whiteflame
Originally Posted by Thoth on 7/20/2026 at 11:13 PM (post #206)
Originally Posted by whiteflame on 7/20/2026 at 8:25 PM (post #192)
Why don't you think Kohai's claim has value?
I do think that it would have value. The question is whether the net value would favor scum or town. I haven't seen anything particularly scummy from Kohai, so a claim from him would likely help scum more than us.


I'd like to get a clear set of reads from you before the DP ends, feels like I don't have a bead on your views of most of the players in this game.

whiteflame

Wryly - I see her having fun with the game and expressing frustration that others don't see it and I feel that. I still don't get why anyone was on her as plausible scum based on that claim alone, and yes, that includes Wylted. Can anyone see scum coming up with that as a fake claim? Seriously, Wryly would have to be mental. At minimum, though, I think she's come off a little townie behaviorally. It's not a lot to read into because I think Wryly might do this as scum as well, but we've seen very little of Wryly's scum play, so that's difficult to call.


Wylted - CCing Wryly on the Candace Owens claim still confuses me, mainly because it looked like such an obviously absurd claim and Wylted would have had reason to know it wasn't real. Still, Wylted claimed the character everyone knew would be in this game, so either he's town and was just that confident that Wryly was faking her claim as scum, or he's scum and Candace Owens is the character he received. I'm keeping the latter as an option on the backburner for now, though it's something I've done as a mod and I wouldn't put it past Rex. Tentative town.


Vader - I largely agree with his reads, though they trend a little stronger than I'm willing to go. In general, I like his takes and responses so far and he has been engaged since coming back, so I'm giving him a very light townread.


Lunatic - Kind of similar to Vader. I think his takes have looked pretty good so far, his reads a little light but still OK. Similar absence, but he's come back in and given the DP more attention, which I appreciate given the disconnect on the sign-up. I have a slightly stronger reason to townread him, though, since I think he'd be far less willing to engage this game if he was scum having come off the frustration of last game. Dude was pretty unhappy about how things played out.


Pie - I've given my thoughts on his claim a couple of times so far, but the long and short of it is this: I sussed it when I initially read it, mainly because of the DP3 inactivation, but the more I've thought about it, the more I'm townreading it. Mikal in particular seems to have a bone to pick with this, but he doesn't explain why Pie would be at all likely to include an extraneous detail like this that we've never seen in a game before. It's important to see his claim in the context of the most recent game, which where we ran into issues of different interpretations of MYLO. Is it possible that Pie decided to use that controversy to craft himself a claim that seemed just off enough to be plausible? Sure, but I just don't see it. I'd have to buy that he's both willing to make a pretty audacious claim like that, not knowing if others will SOP claim or claim other negative utility roles, and also have the presence of mind to include that addendum with the aim of convincing the doubters. Maybe I'm just not giving him enough credit, but I'm giving him a slight town read.


Thoth - I'm not a big fan of his suggestions so far, including just seeking a claim from a random player, saying there's no value in a claim from Kohai, and pushing this theory about Wryly baiting the Candace Owens claim from Wylted, but Thoth also has a habit of making bigger statements and theories than are warranted and getting lynched for it. I'd still like to hear why he views Kohai's claim so negatively, but right now, I'd say he's null trending a little sus.


Kohai - I don't feel like I get Kohai this game. The focus on Wryly and getting her character claim has been weird, the emphasis on a Vig as a means to push back on Pie's DP3 inactivation (it's not the only thing that would affect when MYLO starts), yet he hasn't pressured either of them. I get why he targeted me since I was absent for a bit, but the narrow attention and focus on getting more claims hasn't done anything to help my opinion of him. Slight scum.


Mikal - I get the annoyance with DP1s generally, but Mikal's been all over the place. He starts with a softclaim on both his character and "a portion of" his role, has since refused to elaborate, and instead has spent the few posts he's made going after Pie. Even on that front, his story has shifted, going from Pie's a town liability because scum might be able to end the game before DP3 due to an unknown extra kill to focusing on the oddity of him having a role that ends in DP3. Doesn't seem like he's interested in engaging with different opinions. I'm tempted to townread him on that basis alone since he tends to be more locked in than this as scum. Still, null trending sus.



So from where I'm sitting, I'm good with getting a claim from any of the bottom 3. I'd say not Mikal because he's at least given some indications of who and what he is, but the lack of clarity doesn't sit well with me. I'm tempted to choose him for that reason alone, so for now, that's where my vote is going. If nothing else, I want to see more engagement from him.


VTL: Mikal

whiteflame
Originally Posted by wylted on 7/20/2026 at 9:53 PM (post #196)
I personally read the walls of text unless somebody is doing it an absurd amount of times and close together to other walls that they also did. Not sure if that helps but I will read it, even when I don't engage with it.


Appreciate that, always good to know it's not just going out into the ether.


Given the DP ends in 14 hours you kind placing a vote somewhere. Anywager. If we all have votes out I think it's easier to negotiate


Once I'm done with my reads, I'll post a vote.

whiteflame

Going to shift focus to coming up with a complete set of reads. Not a wall of text this time, since most people don't read those anyway, but I'll give at least some thoughts.

whiteflame


Originally Posted by Thoth on 7/20/2026 at 7:36 PM (post #185)
Originally Posted by whiteflame on 7/20/2026 at 9:51 AM (post #145)
I didn't want to draw attention to it. Given that Candace Owens is almost certainly in this game, it's not a question of whether that claim is real or not, it's a question of whether it's town or not. I made Barry scum and he was the title character of that game, so I don't think we should make any assumptions based on Wylted's CC.
I think the difference there is that Barry is canonically a murderer and, per my understanding, a shitty person. Candace is the obvious hero of her cinematic universe. Possibly scum, but extremely unlikely in my opinion.


A lot of the characters in Barry are murderers. Half of town that game had characters killed someone and three of them were mob bosses, so not exactly great people. I'm going to let the issue drop for now because it's not enough of a concern that I feel it needs to be the focus of this DP, but I think it would be a mistake to just write him off as town solely for claiming the namesake of the game.

whiteflame


Originally Posted by Wryly on 7/20/2026 at 4:53 PM (post #181)
Jesus Christ this is the last time I make a titty joke in mafia. Your loss, you paranoid buzzkills! Can't believe AOC drawn on a boob is actually a datum we're seriously discussing. I expect this shit from wylted, but the rest of you, jeez. If wylted really is Candace that's on him for dumping his purse like a moron just because I made a joke.


Fwiw, I thought it was damn funny.


I just got home and I'm wiped. Aside from a slight sus of Mikal I got nothing. I guess I'd rather go for him than Kohai, gun to my head. Sounds like I'm getting conflicting accounts of how common it is for Hated to deactivate at MYLO/LYLO. whiteflame is acting like it's uncommon for Hated to deactivate, which lends some support to Mikal. I still got a lot to do and will try to be on later.


I'll clarify. It's not uncommon for a Hated role to deactivate, I've just seen both versions used. If it doesn't deactivate, that's a much more negative utility role for town, but it does occur.

whiteflame
Originally Posted by Thoth on 7/20/2026 at 4:11 PM (post #176)
I don’t see the value in a claim from Kohai. If we are going to pressure a full-claim out of anyone, I would rather get it from Mikal.


I can see the value in both. The softclaim from Mikal leaves me with more questions than answers, but it does at least limit his potential claims. Why don't you think Kohai's claim has value?

whiteflame
Originally Posted by Vader on 7/20/2026 at 2:13 PM (post #170)
I feel pretty weird about Kohai. I don’t think I’ve heard them take the angle shooting of “If you know youre going to be out, provide your thoughts” I think that’s inherently flawed since by the time they posted it was already / only 30 posts and not much substance to work with. Also just feels so nitpicky


I don't so much mind that he was calling for more thoughts and getting info before people went on extended absences, but specifically the choice to seek claims from those people doesn't make sense, particularly as he was focused on Wryly, someone who had already contributed a great deal to the DP. She's a strange choice to target considering how she was telegraphing her absence as well.

whiteflame
Originally Posted by Lunatic on 7/20/2026 at 11:57 AM (post #166)
Gun to my head, I think kohai is scum. Don’t have a solid case on him it’s more of a gut read. He acts more confident as scum, going after pie and having that discussion with him about the mechanics of his hated deactivation seems brazen if it isn’t distancing. I also don’t like his suggestion for wryly to claim here. The confidence of the restated sentiment of inactivity is just fluff to make him look invested while not really doing much about that activity. Behind him I am getting suspicions of Thoth, but I feel like I’m always suspicious of Thoth when he’s town. Nothing specifically just his overall attitude about. Rehashing discussions about wrylys claim and branching into bizarre theories about her baiting Candace Owens just seems like a way to keep attention focused on talking points around other people while not fully committing to a read on her. It’s possible Thoth does this as town just something pinging me slightly.

pie and wryly are fine for now, Whiteflame has been contributing in his usual Whiteflame way.

No clue about Mikal, I feel like he is baiting or making some play constantly so I don’t want to read too much into his claim right now. Mikal hates dp1 and does wierd shit early on so kind of hard to tell if he’s up to something yet.

Ive shared some similar thoughts with Vader but I’m not sure if it’s enough to town read him yet.

who am I missing

oh yeah Wylted. Nothing stands out with him either, just his normal Wylted self. He didn’t get wrylys joke earlier but I don’t think I scum read him for it. Just was kind of dumb is all


These reads seem fair. I still need to write mine out (won't be the usual read wall, though almost no one reads those anyway), but Kohai sticks out to me as well. I haven't really flagged anything super odd from Thoth, which is ironically a reason for me to be wary of him - usually he's done something by now that pushes me one way or the other. The belief that Wryly could've been baiting a claim is a reach, but he's usually gone further down the rabbit hole than this.

whiteflame
Originally Posted by wylted on 7/20/2026 at 8:27 AM (post #142)
I don't like the deflection from wryly even if it was a joke

Where is vader? He is essentially lingering

UNVOTE
VTL: Vader


Not clear what the deflection was or why it stands out to you.


As for Vader, sure, I'd like to see more from him. He tends to vanish, so we shouldn't let him coast.

whiteflame
Originally Posted by Thoth on 7/20/2026 at 1:51 AM (post #139)
There's not nearly as much for me to base reads on as I would like. Kohai's wild assumptions about game balance are NAI. Pie's Hated claim can't be safely tested. Mikal's claim-not-claim and insistence that we kill Pie strike me as scummier than anyone else.

Under most circumstances, I would call this anti-town, but I am halfway tempted to suggest we force a claim out of a random person just to advance the game. Make the iron hot by striking and whatnot.


I'll have to write up a set of reads sometime today. I'm null on Kohai atm, a little sus of Mikal jumping that hard on Pie as well, though that would not be terribly unusual for him as town, either.


As for forcing a claim out of someone... we've already got a couple of claims, and I'm hesitant to just go fishing for more at random. I'd like Mikal to explain his softclaim from earlier, which might require him to provide a character claim or even a role claim, so that's where I'm putting my attention right now.



Originally Posted by Thoth on 7/20/2026 at 1:56 AM (post #140)
Does anyone else see wylted as basically an Innocent Child for an un-CC'd claim to the main character? I'm puzzled as to why this hasn't been brought up. Did you all think that this was too obvious to merit pointing out?


I didn't want to draw attention to it. Given that Candace Owens is almost certainly in this game, it's not a question of whether that claim is real or not, it's a question of whether it's town or not. I made Barry scum and he was the title character of that game, so I don't think we should make any assumptions based on Wylted's CC.

whiteflame
Originally Posted by Thoth on 7/20/2026 at 1:29 AM (post #129)
Again, I don't really see the point of a Hated that deactivates before it could give scum a free mislynch. If we weren't going to lynch a Hated claimant, we would cast their votes so as to avoid lynching them, and if we were going to lynch them, they would get lynched anyway. The numbers change, but how we should coordinate our votes does not. It's like the whole purpose of the role is just to be SOP-claimable, unless we are so retarded that we all independently swing around votes without worrying about coordination or the risk of a mislynch. A Hated that doesn't deactivate when scum can freely mislynch them is probably too dangerous to put in a game.


Like I said, I've seen both versions in the game before. I agree that the version that deactivates at a certain point is mainly there to be SOP claimable.


The big question is, do we think that Pie might fake this claim? Initially, I would have said yes. I think we have to have some doubt over it by default since it's a relatively safe claim to give. He did out it early, but then there's that DP3 deactivation, which I've never seen before.


The more I've thought about it, though, the more I buy the claim. I don't think Pie inserts the DP3 deactivation into a fake claim, that seems like something done by a mod who wants to prevent similar problems to those we encountered with the Popular deactivating at MYLO last game. I've got a slight town lean on him for that and some minor behavioral reads. I'm willing to revisit him later in the game, but at least for this DP, I find him believable.

whiteflame
Originally Posted by Wryly on 7/19/2026 at 5:29 PM (post #110)
whiteflame - Null. Measured and neutral as always. Hesitates to jump on the #SacrificePie! movement, but he'd do that as either alignment.


Fair. I think it would be stranger if anyone has a hard read on me atm, don't think I've done anything to stand out in either direction.



Originally Posted by Wryly on 7/19/2026 at 7:27 PM (post #111)
Ode to the Lost Like Button of Mafia

What joy you brought me
In times of stress
My ego boost
My time saver
My "read" sign
Oh the glory days
When a post would hit 5, 6, 7 likes
The heart leaping higher with each number
And the soul could rejoice
that success had landed
mirth was shared or shrewdness acknowledged
Then the mods came
Eyes red, truncheons bouncing in hand
With swift cruelty they stole you from me
My ego boost
My time saver
My "read" sign
I look to where you were
And see only "quote", "reply"
This minimalist nothing
Where posts stand naked, unadorned
Blank henges hulking silent on the hill



Guys I am so bored


Well, this just made my evening, so thank you.



Originally Posted by Wryly on 7/19/2026 at 8:28 PM (post #115)
A reminder that I will be with grandma at the hospital all day tomorrow, though I will still post when I can during wait times. Or maybe I'll just let Rex replace me since it seems like town is gonna sleepwalk to a big fat L. Your ELO doesn't change if you only play a partial game, right?


Priorities where they have to be. Hopefully replacement isn't necessary, though I haven't made a habit of punishing players that opt out early when I enter results.

whiteflame
Originally Posted by Wryly on 7/19/2026 at 2:44 PM (post #97)
Yeah I don't really buy that Mikal has seen "few Hateds that deactivate at all". Seems like Hateds that deactivate should be a common occurrence.


I've seen it both ways. If it doesn't deactivate, then the Hated is a default lynch before MYLO/LYLO. If it does, then no worries. Been a while since I've seen the former, usually falls into the latter camp these days.

whiteflame


Originally Posted by ILikePie5 on 7/19/2026 at 12:42 PM (post #92)

Originally Posted by Wryly on 7/19/2026 at 11:24 AM (post #89)

Originally Posted by Kohai on 7/19/2026 at 12:22 PM (post #87)

Originally Posted by Wryly on 7/19/2026 at 12:18 PM (post #86)
I'm confused anyway. How is Hated a free kill for scum?

Hated goes to Mylo / LyLo if hated doesn't deactive scum get a quick hammer and a win

But Pie's saying his does disable at MYLO/LYLO, which now that I think about it is the only way that role even remotely deserves to exist.

The only way it doesn’t is if Town misfire a Vig, in which case it’s 4-2 at DP2, which is retarded. But even if that were the case, scum couldn’t quickhammer me because I would need 3 votes to be lynched. Only way we auto lose on DP2 is if Vig misfires AND scum have a second NK. Which makes zero sense


So I took a look back through your explanation. Besides the possibility of the Vig (unclear how likely that is), the main thing that's bothering me is that, if we do eliminate one member of the scum team, the calculus changes, placing us at MYLO/LYLO one DP later (assuming a DP2 successful lynch, it goes from 7-2 --> 5-2 --> 4-1 at DP3). I don't want to make too big of a deal out of it, since that's less the point and more that it's odd your PM would specify a DP instead of MYLO/LYLO, though maybe that's just because of all the issues we've already covered with determining when those start. Anyway, not sussing the claim rn, but I am mulling over it.

whiteflame


Originally Posted by Kohai on 7/19/2026 at 8:52 PM (post #121)

Originally Posted by whiteflame on 7/19/2026 at 8:51 PM (post #120)

Originally Posted by Kohai on 7/19/2026 at 8:28 PM (post #116)
VTL: whiteflame

Scum again? WYA
Working on a debate round, but yeah, I’m still here. Apologies for the limited posting, debate’s moved fast.

Fair. Thought you forgot about us

I’ll do some quick responses before it gets too late. Doesn’t seem like a lot has come up, but doesn’t mean I’m going to sit back and do nothing.