Well, this is looking like it will result in a whole lot of nothing. And I'm sure we'll be facing the exact same question next DP, just without any flips to inform our reads. I guess it's not the end of the world that we will likely end up on an odd number, but with the TP in play, I can't say I'm comfortable with it. God help us...
RexFavilla wrote:
whiteflame wrote:
RexFavilla wrote:
I'd consider Indians and Mexicans nationalities, not races. The race of Mexicans if they can be said to have one is Hispanic/Latino, though there is a wide range of subclades - castizo, mestizo, afro-latino, indigenous. The race of Indians is subcontinental or South Asian because you see the same racial makeup in Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Pakistan, and parts of Nepal, with the main different being more Indo-Aryan admixture in Pakistan and more East Asian admixture in Nepal, and higher levels of Ancient Ancestral South Indian (AASI) among the Tamil peoples, which contains a higher Denisovan genetic component. We should really strive to be more scientific and rigorous with our racism, this is shoddy work.
You know what, fair. I apologize, I really should be bringing phrenology into this while I'm at it (I'll get out my tape measure and skull collection). That would mean 4 Nationalities and 3 Races.
Never leave your calipers at home. Sometimes I like to double check when I'm riding public transit and can't quite tell at a glance; you can never be too careful. I aspire to the 'He's Laotian, aint ya?' level but, alas, I've at times fallen short.
Love a good King of the Hill reference. And yeah, I feel that bafflement from Kahn. Dude didn't see that coming.
RexFavilla wrote:
whiteflame wrote:
ILikePie5 wrote:
1 Age
Ultra (Boomer)
2 Nationalities
Kohai (Russians)
Rex (Canadians)
2 Gender
Pie (Women)
Wryly (LGBT)
2 Religion
Whiteflame (Christians)
Helz (Muslims)
5 Races
Banana (Asians)
Mikal (Indians)
Wylted (Whites)
MeowMix (Blacks)
Thoth (Mexicans)
Slight modification, since it's 5 races and 2 religions.
I'd consider Indians and Mexicans nationalities, not races. The race of Mexicans if they can be said to have one is Hispanic/Latino, though there is a wide range of subclades - castizo, mestizo, afro-latino, indigenous. The race of Indians is subcontinental or South Asian because you see the same racial makeup in Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Pakistan, and parts of Nepal, with the main different being more Indo-Aryan admixture in Pakistan and more East Asian admixture in Nepal, and higher levels of Ancient Ancestral South Indian (AASI) among the Tamil peoples, which contains a higher Denisovan genetic component. We should really strive to be more scientific and rigorous with our racism, this is shoddy work.
You know what, fair. I apologize, I really should be bringing phrenology into this while I'm at it (I'll get out my tape measure and skull collection). That would mean 4 Nationalities and 3 Races.
I'll stick around for the little time we have left, but seems like I'm mostly just talking with Pie and Rex at this point and we're on the same page. Please recognize that Thoth doesn't get a vote because he's locked in on Wryly. We need someone to change their vote and for Wryly to place theirs.
I'm not getting anywhere with this analysis. I really don't like Wylted's most recent posts. I'm kind of baffled by the read on Wryly and I don't like his surmising about a potential Suicide Bomber. That's the main thing that's irking me. Maybe it's just Wylted being random and giving some weird hot takes, but I can't help but see them as attempts to distract from his lynch.
That being said, he's not wrong in #862. I didn't get Ultra's logic for trying to stop Wylted from claiming on the basis that he might be a Cop, particularly with the flipped Lie Detector. Wylted's wrong that we're all races and I'm not sure why Ultra would have seen the Vanilla claim as a release valve, but there's at least one good point in there.
So yeah, Ultra still sticks out a little more than Wylted to me. If it comes down to having a lynch on Wylted or no one, I'd prefer the lynch, but if it's a choice between the two of them, it's Ultra.
VTL: Ultracrepidarian
Ultra did claim about a day before Wylted did, though his earlier claim came as a result of a lot of pressure. Harder to read into Wylted's claim since he basically just gave it after subbing in. If he's scum, either his teammates gave it to him, or he straight claimed his character.
ILikePie5 wrote:
1 Age
Ultra (Boomer)
2 Nationalities
Kohai (Russians)
Rex (Canadians)
2 Gender
Pie (Women)
Wryly (LGBT)
2 Religion
Whiteflame (Christians)
Helz (Muslims)
5 Races
Banana (Asians)
Mikal (Indians)
Wylted (Whites)
MeowMix (Blacks)
Thoth (Mexicans)
Slight modification, since it's 5 races and 2 religions.
RexFavilla wrote:
Why on earth is no lynching today good? That mean town gets just two tiwn directed kills this whole game. Insanity.
Yeah, that makes no sense to me, either.
I can't say anything has really shifted my perspective on Ultra, either. Maybe he did just post bits and pieces of his PM to ChatGPT and leave out an important detail that every other claimed Vanilla says they have, but that combined with providing very limited takes on other players (he's behaviorally sussed Wylted a few times this DP after saying that he claimed because he didn't want Wylted to claim earlier and believing there are multiple Vanillas in the game, then turned his attention to Helz and Rex to get claims and then just stayed gone), and a claim that stands out from everyone else's (again, it's the only generational claim on the table) just gives me a bunch of small red flags.
Wylted has a few too, but they're almost all behavioral. I don't love a lot of his opinions this game, and so we've got the opposite problem: he stands out, but I'm trying to parse whether he would do this much to stand out if he was scum. That justification doesn't help and both of them are in the same boat on the Vanilla claims.
Helz wrote:
whiteflame wrote:
Helz wrote:
I want 3 more votes on Wylted.
I am totally leveraged as a player stating that I can confirm myself and will 100% die if I am not able to prove myself tommorow. I want people to put their votes here and I need 3 more.
I'm looking for a succinct case against Wylted. You've got time to make one, and I'll read whatever you post and consider it first thing in the morning.
Really hard to do from a phone
Doesn't look like anything came up during the night. Don't blame you, particularly since you're traveling, though it means I don't have anything new to look through for Wylted.
Well, we don't have much time to figure this out, but I'm going to do what I can. I really don't love that Ultra has just vanished for the last 13+ hours.
Wryly wrote:
Looking back, not super happy that Ultra has been such an easy wagon. A large percentage of players seem to have voted him at one point or another. He could just be LHF
Yeah, this bothers me, too. The fact that it’s been this hard to actually lynch him despite the attention, though, does stand out.
Would be hilarious if Mikal is straight claiming Indians but is scum and his actual role justification is that Indians are telephone scammers, hence scum mason.
It’s crossed my mind, not alignment indicative. A scum flip might help with parsing his claim.
I don't think I buy no Jews in the game, especially with Muslims and Christians being claimed, so someone is lying. That would indicate Mechanic 3 is false. And that Jews are on the scum side of the theme split. Or 3P, I suppose.
I think it’s worth considering all the character claims that stand out, though Helz claimed something that he says is alignment indicative.
Lunatic wrote:
Ill probably give the dp an hour extension, because I will be driving home from work when this ends, and it takes me about an hour to get home. so 9am cst the day phase will end.
That helps, thanks. Now I can get to work before I focus on this.
Helz wrote:
I want 3 more votes on Wylted.
I am totally leveraged as a player stating that I can confirm myself and will 100% die if I am not able to prove myself tommorow. I want people to put their votes here and I need 3 more.
I'm looking for a succinct case against Wylted. You've got time to make one, and I'll read whatever you post and consider it first thing in the morning.
Think I'm going to call it, too. Mainly just need to think on whether all this behavioral information tilts me against Wylted. I'll catch up before work in the morning, so before 8 AM EST.
I think the case on Ultra is clearer at least, though there's enough on Wylted that I can see why he'd be the pick. Wouldn't be at all surprised if one of them is scum.
To Mikal's thoughts on Rex, it's not so much that I'm not buying it as that he's not the focus of my attention this DP. He still stands out for that claim, though I do think he'd push back on claiming regardless of what he was.
The "hidden Jew" thing just seems like Wylted obsessing over something he thinks suits the game, though maybe that's just me being far too used to seeing his thoughts on Jews posted generally. It's an odd thing for him to get this caught up on, I'll grant that.
Looking through Wylted now.
DP1
He did claim straight white man really early after joining the game. If he's scum, I'd say it's doubtful he pulled that out as a fake claim, but I think a lot of us are assuming based on the mechanic about the lack of a theme split that scum will just claim their characters straight up.
I flagged it as odd that he said he wasn't going to catch up, though whether that's due to laziness or a desire not to be read too early on it is unclear. He does eventually opt to read at least a little before pushing Ultra, pushed back against the Kohai lynch, then jumped around to Banana seemingly for theme reasons before hammering Kohai. It's not a lot to read into since he didn't give any reasoning to inform these choices.
DP2
Called out that the Lie Detector seemed obvious in his first post. Kind of townread that, just seems a little too blunt to start with if he's scum, though Wylted has surprised me before.
Some confusion over Tailors and Janitors for some reason.
Touts his willingness to see both Kohai and Ultra dead using a modkill to assist, which... was a choice. Generally he's been pretty open about his willingness to end two townies to boot, which makes even less sense. I've seen the explanation that keeping more townies alive isn't the goal, but Wylted seems a little flippant, specifically about killing two town members, almost as though he's preparing for it.
His first real sus this DP was Ultra and he hasn't really changed much. He called out Ultra on hedging reads, which isn't much, but he does tend to focus on intuiting from very specific behavioral choices. NAI.
Eventually gets to the Vanilla claim because "it's the color of my skin," which seems like an odd justification. Starts to come around on Ultra (mainly due to his justification) in #320, throws some light sus at Mikal over the claim that a mason can't be scum (fair), and says he's concerned Thoth is the TP with the triple voter, which I never quite got. He's come back to pushing Ultra for unclear reasons, says Thoth is a safe lynch as a TP for still unclear reasons, and then says he's fine giving the TP the win.
Long story short, there's few inconsistencies, particularly on Wylted's reads, and some stated preferences I don't agree with. I can't really follow the logic, but then I usually have trouble following where he goes intuitively throughout any given game. Lack of clarity on why he's seeing Ultra as scum doesn't help, nor does it make a whole lot of sense why he said Thoth's a safe lynch for being the TP before turning around and saying he's fine satisfying letting the TP win anyway. I'd sus all this more if I didn't have experience watching Wylted play and he tends to be less... obvious as scum, more restrained. Maybe he's just looser because this game is his element and he's enjoying himself. Unlike Mikal, I wouldn't say his claiming Vanilla is a strong indicator that he's town, but he does tend to take bigger swings with his claims, so at least he dodged one of his usual red flags. It's a lot of behavioral evidence that I'm sussing a little, but I think the case on Ultra is stronger. Still leaning there.
Thoth wrote:
My vote can't be removed. Lunatic just reminded me. Oopsie
This is why we can't have nice things.
If someone can lay out a more complete case against Wylted, I'll at least give it a full look over and do a partial ISO before making a call tonight.
My preference for a lynch atm is Ultra. I can see the case against Wylted well enough, but it seems weaker to me. The focus is more on the lack of clear justification (basically just "I'm white") and some odd statements made by Wylted throughout, which admittedly don't look great. Wylted is always a tough behavioral read and he's not making that any easier this game, hence I'm a little more on the fence about him.
Helz wrote:
My brothers! Let us follow the True Religion! There is no other. We may have come from Christians and written our own bible based upon it but ours is the one true religion!
Let us purge the evil that tells us having sex with 12 year old children is not ok!. Let us kill Wylted for the holy cause!
Such talk from heathens! Quick, let's get rolling with another Crusades while we still can.
MeowMix wrote:
whiteflame wrote:
Im reasonably confident.
1) PM thing.
2) Not claiming Vanilla yesterday
3) Constant wagoning
4) Conveniently disappearing
Yep, that's pretty much what I gathered. The belated attempt to cover for the missing element of his PM stuck out as well. The justification makes some sense for Vanilla, but the fact that he's the only generational claim is also an outlier.
Problem with that is, you can say the same thing about nationalities vs ethnicities. Zoomer could be a scum slot that wasn't outted.
I wouldn't say its a strong independent reason to sus him, but I can't ignore that it's an outlier, either. There are others.
Im reasonably confident.
1) PM thing.
2) Not claiming Vanilla yesterday
3) Constant wagoning
4) Conveniently disappearing
Yep, that's pretty much what I gathered. The belated attempt to cover for the missing element of his PM stuck out as well. The justification makes some sense for Vanilla, but the fact that he's the only generational claim is also an outlier.
Lunatic wrote:
Thoths vote counts for 3 against wryly
Well, that confirms Thoth's role. No need to keep your vote on Wryly now, but thanks for demonstrating.
I think it's worth clearly laying out the case on Wylted vs. Ultra. I think I've got a better idea of why Ultra is being sussed than Wylted, though I can see several reasons why either would make sense.
wylted wrote:
I think Thoth is also a safe lynch. That's definitely a tp,, but I would rather catch scum
Why are you so confident Thoth is a TP?
Mikal wrote:
If someone thought that fair ahead and both vanillas are fake claiming then gg
Pie and I accidentally found it out when theory crafting. I dont think anyone else saw this that early on. Especially if we jusf thought of it.
I think the biggest knock against it being the fake one is that, at best, it gives them one “town lock” Vanilla, but the trade-off is that its presence draws attention to the Vanilla claims. Scum either have incentive to claim Vanilla roles because the fake mechanic sets them up for more than one to exist, or scum have incentive to do the exact same thing because they know there are at least two Vanilla players and they can hide in the crowd. I think we’re getting ahead of ourselves when it comes to figuring out how many scum would claim Vanilla as a result, but the argument that at least one would seems valid.
Mikal wrote:
If you give me any workd where scum pick 5 ill buy it. Pie snd I were trying to hold this till tomorrow but 2 vanillas are mod confirmed by an oversight almost assuredly
Mainly for this exact purpose: making town believe there are at least 2 Vanillas in play in this game. If scum know this isn't a mechanic on the list, then they know there isn't more than 1 Vanilla. Not saying it's the most likely for that reason alone, but I'd say it's at least plausible.
