whiteflame

I know we'd discussed whether option 5 was a likely option for the fake on the list, and I think we've landed on 2 and 3 being more likely. Can't say I'm certain enough to start making assumptions about the entire Vanilla pool just yet.

Mikal wrote:

All options are real but 1

1 is a lie

If scum did not pick 5 and why would they

5 is true

If 5 is true there are 2 confirmed vanillas

Option 5 says: "There is more than one vanilla in this set up." I agree, that means there are at least 2 confirmed Vanillas. Is your point that scum have incentive to use that information to hide themselves among the pool of Vanilla players, hoping town will assume the existence of more than 2 Vanillas?

wylted wrote:

Maybe whiteflame is the secret jew here and irish

Blasphemy!

Mikal wrote:

Okay have to out this

Exactly one of the vanillas is scum.

Mod oversight is there are accidental mod confirmed townie. If we assume there is no shot mafia picked 5 as an option. Then 5 must be true. If 5 must me true at least 2 vanillas are modlocked

One scum between

Rex

Ultra

Wylted

Pick your poision.

I feel like I'm missing something. I do think it's likely that one scum has claimed a Vanilla role, but what is it about option 5 that ensures there are only two Vanilla players if it's true?

ILikePie5 wrote:

whiteflame wrote:

ILikePie5 wrote:

whiteflame wrote:

ILikePie5 wrote:

RexFavilla wrote:

What's the voice thing? Did someone claim it was/wasn't in their pm?

If you read Ultra’s paraphrase of the info in their PM, it reads like a AI reword of their PM. Logically they copy pasted their PM in AI and asked them to reword in British. The piece missing is the use your voice and vote, which Luna has included with every Vanilla PM for the last 5-10 games. So there’s 2 possibilities:

1) The rephrase is a rephrase of a made up scum fake claim

2) Ultra paraphrased his PM in his own words and left out the voice piece, and then put that in AI to say it in British.

The other claimed Vanilla in Wylted says he has the voice/vote piece. Doesn’t mean much, but still something

It does stand out that his is the only generational character claim as well. He did mention that he hadn't put the entirety of his role PM into AI, but given that he says Luna chewed him out over it anyway, it would be an odd choice to exclude that specifically.

Where did he say this?

#485

Important note I didn't copy paste my pm I just fed bits of it to AI and they cobbled it all together.

Luna gave me a warning about it so I'll definitely make sure not to it again

After I had revealed it. But I don’t buy it anyways.

It's a convenient excuse.

ILikePie5 wrote:

whiteflame wrote:

ILikePie5 wrote:

RexFavilla wrote:

What's the voice thing? Did someone claim it was/wasn't in their pm?

If you read Ultra’s paraphrase of the info in their PM, it reads like a AI reword of their PM. Logically they copy pasted their PM in AI and asked them to reword in British. The piece missing is the use your voice and vote, which Luna has included with every Vanilla PM for the last 5-10 games. So there’s 2 possibilities:

1) The rephrase is a rephrase of a made up scum fake claim

2) Ultra paraphrased his PM in his own words and left out the voice piece, and then put that in AI to say it in British.

The other claimed Vanilla in Wylted says he has the voice/vote piece. Doesn’t mean much, but still something

It does stand out that his is the only generational character claim as well. He did mention that he hadn't put the entirety of his role PM into AI, but given that he says Luna chewed him out over it anyway, it would be an odd choice to exclude that specifically.

Where did he say this?

#485

Important note I didn't copy paste my pm I just fed bits of it to AI and they cobbled it all together.

Luna gave me a warning about it so I'll definitely make sure not to it again

ILikePie5 wrote:

RexFavilla wrote:

What's the voice thing? Did someone claim it was/wasn't in their pm?

If you read Ultra’s paraphrase of the info in their PM, it reads like a AI reword of their PM. Logically they copy pasted their PM in AI and asked them to reword in British. The piece missing is the use your voice and vote, which Luna has included with every Vanilla PM for the last 5-10 games. So there’s 2 possibilities:

1) The rephrase is a rephrase of a made up scum fake claim

2) Ultra paraphrased his PM in his own words and left out the voice piece, and then put that in AI to say it in British.

The other claimed Vanilla in Wylted says he has the voice/vote piece. Doesn’t mean much, but still something

It does stand out that his is the only generational character claim as well. He did mention that he hadn't put the entirety of his role PM into AI, but given that he says Luna chewed him out over it anyway, it would be an odd choice to exclude that specifically.

Wryly wrote:

Surely Rex is just Jews then. Hard to believe they'd be left out of Stereotype Mafia

Need to complete the trifecta.

Helz wrote:

I am a Muslim. I fuck my cousin all day but its against my religion to fuck my sister.

I softed it in a post where I put a religious symbol as the O in a statement of sister fucker.

Can't say I caught the soft, but given what you've stated about your role and your character's unfortunate relation to mine (where are the Jews when you need them?), there's more than sufficient reason for me to townread you over it.

MeowMix wrote:

Mass claims would be nicer if Banana were alive. She could just lie detect everyone.

What could have been...

Helz wrote:

whiteflame wrote:

RexFavilla wrote:

whiteflame wrote:

I'm trying to skim through the last few pages to understand what is happening.

Are we seriously at a point where the disagreement is just over what order Helz and Pie should claim in? Can someone just summarize why there's a problem with claiming together at the same time beyond ego and annoyance?

Helz is pulling the 'my role is conformable' card on Pie. Its kind of funny actually.

Seems like he's saying he has a confirmable every other night role from what he says. I get that he sees that as a bigger get, though it seems odd that he's so adamant about holding back on his flavor claim after saying that he didn't think it was important. I can buy that that comes down to ego, but it seems like it's just getting in the way of actual clarity.

I am just suspicious of Pie and why they are being so weird about claiming given they came up with this "Everyone should claim" thing

Suddenly when its their turn they want to argue about "Well its not my turn, its your turn" which is some bullshit.

Nobody elected them mayor and nobody has reason to strong town read them.

Much as I'm not giving him any credit for it, this really isn't unusual for Pie as town or scum. Pushing off on his claim in an attempt to get useful information is not unusual. I get how that can be frustrating and I've had my share of instances where I've sussed similar behavior from him. That being said, I think this is more likely a town v. town situation, and I'd rather just move on from it if possible. I can't see either of you being my lynch of choice this DP at this rate.

UNVOTE

Seems like attention has peeled off Rex entirely and I did see that he posted a read list.

I get why votes have been building on Wylted as well, since his claim does stand out to me.

We're going to need to work through this first, though.

RexFavilla wrote:

whiteflame wrote:

I'm trying to skim through the last few pages to understand what is happening.

Are we seriously at a point where the disagreement is just over what order Helz and Pie should claim in? Can someone just summarize why there's a problem with claiming together at the same time beyond ego and annoyance?

Helz is pulling the 'my role is conformable' card on Pie. Its kind of funny actually.

Seems like he's saying he has a confirmable every other night role from what he says. I get that he sees that as a bigger get, though it seems odd that he's so adamant about holding back on his flavor claim after saying that he didn't think it was important. I can buy that that comes down to ego, but it seems like it's just getting in the way of actual clarity.

ILikePie5 wrote:

whiteflame wrote:

I'm trying to skim through the last few pages to understand what is happening.

Are we seriously at a point where the disagreement is just over what order Helz and Pie should claim in? Can someone just summarize why there's a problem with claiming together at the same time beyond ego and annoyance

TL:DR. Helz refuses to. I’m willing to.

...alright then.

I'm trying to skim through the last few pages to understand what is happening.

Are we seriously at a point where the disagreement is just over what order Helz and Pie should claim in? Can someone just summarize why there's a problem with claiming together at the same time beyond ego and annoyance?

ILikePie5 wrote:

If REF refuses and we mislynch, tomorrow may be MYLO, so just force him to full claim first. Helz needs to claim right now tho

It's very odd that Helz seemed agreeable to claiming and then just didn't. There's more behaviorally to read with him, but that stood out.

I'm fine with pushing Rex for a character claim to start and for some reads. I get not wanting to follow Mikal's lead, but at this point, being frustrated about it doesn't help us come to a decision and we don't have enough behavioral information from him to work from.

VTL: RexFavilla

Mikal wrote:

Actually before he starts bleeding heart on some stupid shit and says I have some bad intentuon when we literally know thoth is town now.

Im mason and in a pm with pie

He can validate

But yes there is genuine validity with how many people have already claimed.

Alright, not a given that you're town but at least your role is verified.

Mikal wrote:

Hell would freeze over before he claimed vanilla as a fake claim as scum

Would be claiming time traveling paratrooper that has 5 roles in one night or something.

I'm trying to understand this perspective on Wylted. If this was any random game, I'd probably be thinking along similar lines, but this is one where one of the stated mechanics that we still don't know is real is "There is more than one vanilla in this set up." Scum have active incentive, whether it's real or not, to fake claim Vanilla. Maybe Wylted just wouldn't care about that, but I can't just ignore it. I'm not 100% on Ultra either, though I think his justification just makes sense on first read. Have we seen one from Wylted beyond "I'm white"?

Ultracrepidarian wrote:

Reworded to Shakespearean English

Ye doddering relics, a very blight upon the commonwealth! Ever dost thou prattle of how fairer all things were in days long past, whilst scorning every new contrivance set before thee. Thou fearest artifices of intelligence, knowest not the workings of a computing engine, and spendest thy twilight years draining the public purse for physic and remedies. Thy usefulness hath long since fled; therefore art thou but a simple Vanilla.

...please tell me we're not back to just using ChatGPT to reword our PMs.

Helz wrote:

@Pie, Wryly, WF

Which 3 players do you trust the least?

Lol, didn't even see this post before I posted it, but see the above. Can't say I have strong opinions on Rex, Wylted or MeowMix, but they all look better so far.

I'll post a full read list tomorrow, but for tonight, I'm just going to keep it to who I have the most attention on.

Thoth and Ultra are in similar territory here. The latter is getting a little more credit for claiming and at least responding more often, but not much. Both need to be present this DP, both need to give thoughts, no matter how indecisive or uncertain they are.

I also just can't seem to get a bead on Mikal, and that's bothering me. I still don't really get the sudden pressure on Helz, which came in part from just sheeping Pie and leaning into the TMI argument for identical reasons, nor do I understand the sus he's throwing at Wryly over similar TMI, but this time with less certainty in the statement (she used the word "could"). I don't doubt that Mikal would overfocus on this stuff as any alignment, but it's getting excessive and feels more unwarranted than usual.

ILikePie5 wrote:

Let’s pressure Thoth guys

I can at least see a better point to pressuring Thoth, specifically to get a set of reads first and we can go from there. Dude needs to join the conversation, and yet he's spent his posts this DP stating the obvious, fluff-posting and introducing more doubt rather than giving a clear perspective. I don't like that he spent the end of last DP advocating for Kohai to get modkilled, either.

VTL: Thoth

ILikePie5 wrote:

I feel worse about Ultra cause he’s now completely MIA after claiming. I’m also inclined to believe the partners showed up among the replacements and told him to claim Vanilla. Otherwise, why wait so long. Could’ve just claimed it last DP when he had a wagon on him. Lynching him doesn’t help us read anyone else, but it could at the worst reduce the ability of scum to claim Vanilla

The more I've thought about Ultra, the less I've liked. He claimed his character last DP under pressure and though I'll give him some credit for softing a little earlier than that, I can't give him much with the uncertainty over whether there's a theme split. The Vanilla claim definitely didn't help, nor did how late it came and after far less pressure this DP. I don't think he's given any justification yet, he's still extremely short on any reads (calling himself "the most wildly indecisive person imaginable" is a convenient excuse to not give anything this DP), and as you said, he's just kind of vanished.

I've been spending a lot of the day reading and voting on debates that I've been asked to cover, so I just haven't had time to really dig into things as much as I'd like. Take that however you want, but I've got a backlog of these things to get through and I keep getting more thrown at me. I'll try to post some thoughts before I call it tonight.

wylted wrote:

I agree that we should be considering everyone on that lynch, particularly those who joined it with limited explanation.

I literally pointed out ultra was more scummy and I asked Kohai to modkill himself so we could get two lunches for the price of one

I don't see how this is meant to improve my perception of you since you were still on the lynch in the end, but fine.

MeowMix wrote:

whiteflame wrote:

MeowMix wrote:

Carry me WF. KILL THE SLANKERS.

I don't know what a slanker is but...

https://youtu.be/BKIgv8AhffA?si=RBKOhqVhJc96xEZh

Lol basically means lazy slots.

They are where my attention is at for now. Failing to focus that attention last game ended up being costly.

Mikal wrote:

I have good reason to believe pie is town and I think itd a valid point. The wording of the lost is tmi. Helz saying he has reason to believe there is a tp or its likley there is a tp doesnt correct the fact that he said there is certainly one in the game.

I believe Pie's town too, doesn't mean I'm sheeping him on this. I get that Helz said "confirmed 3p" in that post, but I hesitate to put it down to TMI when so many people were automatically reading #1 as likely true. I recognize that scum would be certain, as obviously would the TP, so I take your point.

MeowMix wrote:

Carry me WF. KILL THE SLANKERS.

I don't know what a slanker is but...

https://youtu.be/BKIgv8AhffA?si=RBKOhqVhJc96xEZh

Thoth wrote:

Wryly wrote:

Depends. In Chicago Bears mafia the Tailor could not affect alignment. In Alien mafia whiteflame tailored Casey from town to 3P.

I don't mean to criticize the habit of looking to past games for information, but I think we should all keep in mind that there's no rulebook for game hosts on here, and we are free to design our roles however we want.

I agree with Wryly's response to you, but especially given what you've said here, I'd like to understand what you're thinking since you haven't given much in the way of thoughts this DP beyond just acknowledging the mislynch and casting doubts like this.