whiteflame

Alright, looking back through this Pie vs. Rex situation, here's my take:

Pie is willing to put himself on the line this DP to prove that he's innocent. He's not saying "wait until you see the flip and then lynch me next DP," he's saying by the end of the DP, he should be the lynch if he can't prove it. If there's incentive for scum Pie to do that, someone please explain it to me because I sincerely have no idea what could possess him to put his ass on the line before this DP even ends. I get not understanding the push for information from Rex, but if he's that confident he can prove himself to be town, then I'm willing to explore whatever this is before he has to out.

Lets please not dog pile though. Lets actually hunt today and make a train and counter train... Pretty please?

Absolutely. Going to work on some other reads tomorrow and see where I’m leaning on alternative wagons.

Right, I am about to go to bed, but I'll claim. I am myself (Shining). I don't remember if there is a name for this, but once per game I can target a player and anything done against them, are redirected to me. 

This seems… a bit strange. It’s basically a Lightning Rod with a one-time use. Why would a role like this be restricted to one use? I’d like your justification, but so far at least, I don’t think anyone has claimed a 1X role, at least not among those that garner them through recruitment. So why this one?

i dont get it either but i dont think you should spell it out whatever it is. it doesnt make sense for u to do it as scum either way

At base, that should be obvious. My giving myself away when Mikal is effectively giving scum an untraceable day kill would be especially stupid.

So looking at this series of posts #67 #68#69

Whiteflame randomly says Shadow Exchange. ......Wut?

Then there is a post by Wylted accepting a challenge and declaring themselves king

Then there is a mod action confirmation of killing Wylted

I feel like this isn’t difficult to figure out. If you research either of the two posts you’re referencing of mine, you can put this puzzle together, but if you really need me to spell it out, I can.

I essentially invest into the community through financing it and trying to keep it active

The Strengthener role is kind of a given to be sussed, but the justification does make sense for Max.

I am good getting Awesome’s claim

Just asked Mikal, but I don’t think it’s still 8 to lynch with Wylted dead. Be careful of the hammer, should be at 7.

Wylted stating he is the king and accepted the challenge right before dying?

I believe I mentioned this before: the Ant King is searching for the human king. Wylted just declared himself king, the Ant King appears to have killed him.

So i guess that means ant king is not mafia?

Why is that your take-away?

Fucking… damn it.

Shadow Exchange

Cute. They’ve got bugs that can talk now?

And Alyssa may have just fallen on her sword to usher in the king. Put up just enough fight to make herself a convincing target.

Hard to say if she knew. Not sure how much info scum were given, and it doesn’t seem like the scum team has knowledge enough to figure out this would happen

A Lost Wolf could explain a lot. That means scumchat only had 3 players in it. If the third player was underactive or unformidable or both, much of scum's game makes sense.

I think it’s either a Lost Wolf or some kind of initially weak member of the scum team upgraded automatically when the Queen dies. A smaller scum team does make sense of their claims, though.

Yeah. I honestly have no theme knowledge at all. But this must go down in history as the worst scum fake claims ever

I can recall worse, but those usually come without given fake claims. This is something else.

The theory that makes sense to me is King is lost wolf who powers up and joins scum chat when Queen dies. SJW is third party who can choose to side with town or not.

That makes way more sense to me.

Also I kinda want to town lock whiteflame. He has a ton of flavor knowledge and I also don't think he'd let his two team mates butcher their claims like that.

Dude, these claims have been painful. And twice in a row being this obvious? It’s part of why I’ve been townreading anyone with more than basic theme knowledge.

So do you think the king is scum or town? If scum, lost wolf?

Why would a scum Ant King be challenging a scum SJW? Don’t get how he’d be a Lost Wolf, either. Sounds like one or the other dies here.

Damn, they really did rip off HxH.

Shameless and worse. Meruem’s a way better character than the Ant King and the Chimera Ant Arc is so much better.

Alright, context:

The Ant King is the means by which the Ant Queen is killed canonically, so we’ve already changed canon a bit. He does come out of her, as stated, and proceeds to kill a lot of Hunters searching for the human king, whom he believes will be their strongest. He eventually finds SJW, who he acknowledges as their king for his power and who kills him in a 1v1.

Who is your king 

In game timer has triggered. 

I catch up and see this. Wtf?

I’m still typing and would appreciate it if you waited

i will hammer

I’ll wait. Hoping the NP covers the duration of my flight tomorrow anyway.

I just don’t have anything to add at this point. I’m good with the Alyssa lynch, especially given her absence since VTLing herself. If people want anything from me, I’m packing for a trip tomorrow, but I’ll check in with some regularity.

I don't think him not caring about most people means he actively wants people to die. Difference between Psychopath/sociopath. If you've seen the holy trinity (A recent western movie) theres a qoute I like from Samuel L Jackson's character when one of the protagonists asks him why Sam Jacksons Character didn't kill him he says "I ain't the devil son, I'm just a sinner". Kind of how I view Jin Woo lol.

Fair enough.

There is a spoiler related reason for this that I won't go into if you only have watched the show.

Yeah, I haven't read the manhwa, so I can't say I know it.

It definitely is debatable, part of what makes the show so good imo. There's a big question about morals and how the main character fits into being a protagonist, or if he really is a protagonist. I find it a breath of fresh air to have animes where the main character isn't just an inherently good dude, its been done and done, its cool to see more grey area characters like Jin Woo. He's not totally hateable either. He just seems more realistic. I don't think the vast majority of people with abilities would be helpful to others without benefit to themselves as they frequently are in these things. Jin Woo feels real character wise for this.

I've got mixed feelings about him, but he is more realistic with his OP self than most similarly situated protagonists.

There is an ant flipped in the graveyard, unless its tailored, seems the theme split is ants vs everyone else.

That's why I think a Japanese Hunter or someone associated with them is a likely TP, not scum.

There's one character who is opposed to Jinwoo but doesn't take part in the raid. Then there's the characters who are involved in the raid and those are not just opposed to Jinwoo, but Korean hunters as a whole.

Yeah, I was thinking about this too when it was mentioned earlier (probably by you) that the split could be between Japanese and Korean Hunters. Don't think any of them would fit the Poisoner profile, but scum could have the Poisoner here.

I thought the jeju island participation in the end was even for self purposes both for the power increase and because if the ants spread to the city his own family is at risk. I wonder if he genuinely gives a shit about most people. Kind of like Dexter cares for people who is close to him only really, anyone else can get fucked.

I'd say that's somewhat up to interpretation, but if he really had no interest in stepping in to save anyone, you have to wonder why he came when he did instead of just waiting for all the humans to die out. He did seem genuinely desperate to save Cha Hae-In in the aftermath as well. I won't argue that he's not being selfish here, just that he put himself in the middle of events on Jeju at a time that wasn't particularly opportune for pursuing his own aims and protected others shortly after he arrived. You can argue that Cha Hae-In was an exception because she was "close" to him, and that it was still a dick move to let so many Hunters die before stepping in, but it's arguable whether he's solely self-serving here.

I mean even ignoring the mod posts, Jin Woo to me just seems like the perfect third party. As the show goes on and as his powers developed, he seemed to me as if he was growing more and more of a sociopath. Seems to not really connect to anyone and allies only with people who bring direct value to himself. Never really makes an attempt to get with Lee Johee who makes it obvious she wants to date him, even when he was an E rank. He cares about his sister and his mom, and Yoo Jinhoo to an extent but that's about it. He seems to lose more and more of his personality as the show progresses, and ultimately I get the vibe that he's taking on dungeons and monsters purely for the sake of getting more powerful. Like if I was designing this game it would take a lot of weird reasoning to not make this character third party.

I have a hard time believing that Sung Jin-woo is a full-on third party. At worst, I'd say it's likely they have options for achieving their wincon, though those still almost certainly overlap with town. I agree that he changes over the course of the series and even with the sociopath label, but as Mestari already mentioned, he's instrumental for making this raid on Jeju Island successful in the end.

Maybe. I would be suspect of player characters more so because I feel like they are easier to fake claim, since the mod said they were confirmed to exist. But both thoth and alyssa have claimed actual characters, so yeah theres something to mafia having fake claims for sure assuming alyssa also flips scum. There is a decent chance they used all of them by this point, 4 fake claims seems like a lot. I can see 2 being realistic. I also theorized that the player characters were added in after mikal balanced this. He was initially telling me he wanted 13 players, and we ended up getting another 4 after that. Makes me wonder if the 4 added after were all just player characters.

I would not be surprised if the remaining scum claimed themselves as their characters, partially because they might lack for additional fake claims, and partially because claiming characters from the show puts them in a similar position to Thoth and Alyssa.

Lol, checking my work and it looks like we found the same claim info. Appreciate your including the posts, didn't go to that detail.