whiteflame

Calling it a night at this point. I should be pretty available tomorrow, so I'll make sure I'm active early.

Alright, felt the least I could do is go back through the DP and see if I'm recognizing any patterns among posts so far. Not a lot to go off of, but have to start somewhere.

Just to start, Wryly is not in this game. Not sure why she's been mentioned as though she's a part of the game, but I don't have any reads for doing it. She posted once earlier in the game, but unless she's somehow an unlisted 10th player, she's not in the game this time.

Lunatic - Mentioned concerns with how the game is balanced (feels a little premature, but he was clearly frustrated about this last game in our chat), pushed back on a potential cult, lightly defended Luna from Thoth's early sus and then softclaimed.

Rex - Pushed back against softclaims, went pretty far with the argument including screenshots of the Ted Lasso game. Called out Magoroth, Wryly (see above), and Luna for a lack of posting, though he didn't call me out or recognize his own relative lack of posting.

Mag1cman - Softclaimed, pushed back on policy lynching Wylted, largely basing early scumreads on activity. Townreads Wylted for townreading Pie for saying saying he's town, less clear on the slight town reads for Thoth and Magoroth.

Thoth - Started jumping around on votes starting with Banana then Wylted for the pfp (weird calling him a policy lynch for that reason, but given who Epstein is, I at least understand that as a gut response). Suggested a possible cult (a bit of TMI I'm used to seeing from Thoth regardless of alignment), suggested that there could be significantly fewer female characters to draw from in this game as a means for scumreading Pie briefly, didn't know that some people mistakenly call Samus Aran "Metroid" and softclaimed.

Wylted - Started with a vote on me that felt pretty classic Wylted. Softclaimed, said there are some weird elements like his name being misspelled in his PM, spent some time sheeping Pie for reasons, and has since sussed both Banana saying "it's worth crossing her off the list" and then Magoroth, probably largely just to see how the latter responds.

Magoroth - Thinks Jews are a myth (we are, in fact, aliens), softclaimed, townreads Pie and has a vote on Banana.

Pie - Suggested the softclaim, participated, and has since largely just been pursuing and justifying it, drawing some attention to Rex, Thoth and Banana.

Banana - Softed, didn't rile in response to early pressure. Townreads Mag1c and pointed out Wryly's not on the player list (good to know it's not just me).

As for my reads based on this, I'm giving Wylted a slight town lean for the PM stuff, mainly because I don't think he's likely to call out minor elements of his PM as scum since they could result in discrepancies if he does get pushed to claim. The initial sus on me also looks pretty authentic to the Wylted I recognize from so many of these games. I've also got a slight town on Mag1c, chiefly because the logic of his reads makes sense, though his focus on less active players is simultaneously a little too broad and simple for me to give him more than that.

Apart from them, there's just a whole lot of null.

Apologies for just kind of dipping today, really doesn't help that I've got some deadlines coming up tomorrow and I've had to read a lot more than I anticipated to get ready for them.

I'm catching up tonight, so I'll post thoughts before I call it.

Anyone want to tell me how many important female characters there are in Legend of Zelda? I'm getting flashbacks to when I was scum in Ranger's Apprentice and suggested that we claim male/female in hopes that I could find the only two important women in those books and maybe save us a question about which characters were in the game. This is minor scum points for Pie.

Depends on what you'd consider "important," but there are at least a few that immediately come to mind. It gets a lot fewer when you're talking about single games, but across the whole franchise, there are bound to be more. I know Breath of the Wild has some powerful Champion characters, there are at least a couple of sages, and a handful of princess characters.

Anyone want to tell me how many old people in the 80s thought Link was named Zelda?

Roughly the same number that thought Samus Aran was named Metroid.

That annoying pixie thing from Ocarina of Time that tells you to HEY! LISTEN! ?

God, I can still hear that some nights when I close my eyes. Fun fact, though: canonically female. Don't ask me how they know.

Mag1cman

Thoth

Lunatic

Wylted

Rex

Magoroth

Whiteflame - Female

Pie - Male

Bananna

Thank God you fixed that. I could only imagine having that last name right now

It is... not exactly a popular name atm, so definitely one of those times where a name change helps.

It caught Supa in one game that's older than this site. How many times did it help scum snipe power roles and important characters through POE? Judging by my character, I'm pretty sure Zelda and Link exist and would probably have power roles. If one of them dies and we do this soft scum have narrowed their POE to hunt the other down by half.

I guess that depends on the soft. I think we've been a bit too eager at times to try to lock people into their claims with softing that trends too close to an actual character claim, but I wouldn't say that's a substantial concern with the male/female split. At worst, you're talking about narrowing the pool down to half at a point where there will probably be a number of claims on the table anyway.

We should probably do some type of soft claim? Anyone have any ideas? Male/Female sounds reasonable but I’m open to suggestions

Male/Female should work, don't recall any characters that don't fall into that binary. Gotta start somewhere. I'm female.

I think Epstein did nothing wrong. I had a long conversation with Savant around the topic and he is supposed to release videos of it. So the ideal is defensible and besides he probably worked for Mossad which makes whiteflame more involved than me

VTL WHITEFLAME

You know, my wife's maiden name is Epstein (no relation). Interested to watch your videos talking to Savant, should be interesting.

Taking out the Jew first? That tracks with... history.

Reading through the OP again. Good to see we don't have to deal with TPs, GFs, millers or gravediggers this game, same with the hidden modifiers.

I have a pretty varied experience with the Legend of Zelda games. Played through Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask, some experience with Skyward Sword and Twilight Princess, not a whole lot with the new games on the Switch though I've got the gist. In terms of focusing on theme, David mentioned that the theme split would be obvious (to the point that he was initially planning to make any flavor discussion a modkill-worthy offense), so I suspect that's still in play here. Wouldn't be surprised at all if scum got at least one fake claim.

Alright then, guess we're starting. Guess the rule against flavor claiming went away?

Fun, some of my favorite Star Wars characters and stories in Andor. /in

Long as we don't start before Monday, I'm good to join.

Idk why I was scumread so much this game.

I have no fucking clue. Both with your role of creating a pipeline between Mikal and Vader and the coincident timing of your Tracker turning off with Magoroth's Watcher, I figured everyone would lock you into town mechanically. Never even thought to push you.

ty, i just need to work on my skills at convincing other people the way pie does, that whole ordeal was an uphill struggle but it seemed ez for him lol

FWIW, I thought you were screaming town, hence I just totally took the pressure off you with my vote on Kohai. I think you made your case well. Even a good and convincing case isn't always going to sway the people it needs to in order to be successful.

I think others have largely covered what I planned to address. It's a good time teaming up with Pie (we really were doing a lot of work and bouncing a tremendous amount of ideas off of each other, lot of strong questions, too), and even though I ended up being largely CC'd as scum, it's always good vibing with Luna in our Discord chats. I'm just grateful he came along with us in the end, though I'll just emphasize that he did not think it was fair when I presented the idea initially. He really wanted nothing to do with it, and I would have respected his choice if he decided to just abstain, even under the pressure of losing on his wincon (would've just converted him and killed him during the NP).

Main thing I'm going to emphasize, and I know I've said this before as both town and scum: leaving decisions on lynches to the 11th hour rarely goes well. It ensures that decisions happen under duress and whoever is the loudest voice in the room often can dictate the pace. You want to hope that's town, but scum have incentive to be that voice. Especially with back-to-back DPs, it really shouldn't have come down to the last 30 minutes before the second lynch was hammered. Maybe it still would have ended the same, but I'm pretty sure Pie would've been the lynch if everyone had worked to get on the same page even an hour earlier.

I think I have this right:

Unofficial Vote Count

ILikePie - 3/5 Wylted, Lunatic, Banana

Banana - 1/5 ILikePie

Kohai - 4/5 Whiteflame, ILikePie, Magoroth, Wryly

Given your double vote, this could all be your call, man. Hope you’re online to make it.

OP says 7 PM dude.

We’re really making a habit out of bringing this down to the wire with most players absent, aren’t we? Just putting this out there: I really don’t love that Kohai said he’d be back later and just stayed gone. I get that he said he’s busy, but this is a pretty pivotal time to vanish for 5+ hours.

She seems to be going along with the base level POV. So extremely safe type of thinking that goes along with the crowd and actions that do as well

True enough, just don't think I'm townreading her for that. Not scumreading her for it, either.

So you think the favor you were given by awesome5000 was actually the work of a scum role of his, or do you believe he really has an even night Adjudicator that he straight claimed? Since Mikal has an Adjudicator as well, it does fit this pattern of doubled roles.

Given the setup, I think there's a more than decent chance that scum was given one of those doubled roles, giving them an opportunity to confirm their night action with someone else. If Pie's claim ends up being accurate, he'll be in the same boat, just doubled with Wylted instead. So yes, his odd night role could just be one that gives out favor. I don't have any idea if his even night role is the Adjudicator, but I guess it would make sense for that to be a doubled role with Mikal's.

ur being a bit more reasonble with it, but vader suggested he is okay with my lynch and indicates no behavior read, and pie is wanting my lynch just for the role as well, so even if its not u, it is happening on some level

well ur the only one respondin to me about this, but im more venting in general not directing it at you if that makes sense

Fair enough. For what it's worth, I get where you're coming from.

im sayin it cant be used against me bcuz i have not had the oppertunity to use it. same goes for anyone else with an even role right?

True. That's my point, though: no one has been able to confirm their even night role, so much as it does matter to have the claims on the table now, it's not all that useful to determine who is telling the truth.

Also, let's be clear about this: one of those two Slanderers (Pie) is in my POE, too, and I have other reasons to townread Wylted (mainly based on his Miller claim). So the idea that I'm just dismissing the negative utility of their roles for no reason doesn't hold up.

it jus seem liked u were suggesting that cuz you questiond wylted for town reading me, but ok

I'm trying to understand his read, but that doesn't mean I think you're scum.

ok sure but if it was odd/ even slanderer even that would make more sense since me and kohai have odd/even night benefactor. or even if me and kohai were both odd/odd and pie n wylted were even/even that would have syngery as well. as far my role goes, just put urself in my shoes for a second ok? lets say u have the same role and u know u r town. how do you defend against this argument that i must be scum because i have a scummy role? i have no control over that. and the same scummy role logic didn't apply to thoths redirect or towards mikals favor taking thing, or apparently to 2 slanderers whose only point is to take favor from people! can u at least see how frustratin this is from my pov?

I agree, their being on the same night stands out a bit to me as well, I'm just hesitant to jump on the CC train for that reason alone. As for your questions, I don't expect you to defend yourself against this. I know that's an impossible lift, that's why my gutread is that I don't think you'd claim this as scum. I'm also not just going to ignore them or treat you being town as a given because you claimed this role. It would not be a first for someone to claim what looks like a scummy role and try to get towncred off of the WIFOM thinking that stems from that. If Thoth had claimed Redirector, I would have felt similarly in that instance. Mikal hadn't claimed his role, either. I get being frustrated about this, but you're acting like I'm being inconsistent in how I'm applying it.

i would have loved to but there was no night phase 2 because of mikal so that is kind of unfair

I don't see how it's unfair to point out that the role you claim you can confirm isn't yet confirmed.

so u can buy that but theres town people with scum roles so its what is even ur point? argh!

My point is that I can't remove you from POE. That's it. I'm not scumreading you, I don't have my vote on you, but I can't put you in my town pile. I don't get what's frustrating about this.

mago makes a good point earlier tho about the inactives. unless we honestly think all the scum r just inactive that being the main reason to lynch kohai feels kind of weak

I think we ignore inactives at our peril. I don't think the scum team is just two inactive players, but one wouldn't surprise me. I also still can't get past awesome's weird activity spike at the end of DP1.

okay so I don’t buy into all that but even if i do for u that one, i still don’t understand 2 things. why isn’t pies slanderer not scummy but my action is, and why is it okay that he was pressurin shining for a CC when his role was just CCed. Ok letts add a third one in there, why is my veto role more scummy than my confirmable benefactor role?

Your Siren is effectively an RB on the mod-confirmed town player in this game. Pie's and Wylted's Slanderer is not only mod confirmed to be in this game (from OP: "Other roles can also increase, deduct, or transfer favor."), but it was previously established that there would be multiple of these roles in the game (again, from the OP: "Multiples of these roles exist in the game."), several of which had already been claimed.

As for the Benefactor, you get full credit for being able to confirm your role, though I'll point out that a) you haven't yet, and b) scum could have favor-distributing roles.

and i would like to kno y u r scum reading me. so far it seems like its based on half of my role pm only

Did I ever say I was scumreading you? You've been in my POE for a while now, but I've been hesitant to push you for a reason (see above).

As for where I'm leaning atm, I can't say I like how attention has gone almost completely off of Kohai despite his being pretty commonly in a lot of our POE. I agree with Luna's point about the lack of interaction between these two, which strikes me as odd even with Pie's absences. Even if Pie claims he doesn't have access to his lynchproof next DP, I think a scum flip on Kohai puts the spotlight on Pie next DP.

Regarding Banana, her entreaties about what's wrong with her behaviorally come off as decently townie to me, which hold me back from posting a vote on her. It's mainly that Siren role that is setting me off. I get that the game includes a Miller that unlocks with favor too, but this is much more actively anti-town and apparently available to her early. I don't know why she'd announce that she has a role like this, particularly if she has access to a fake claim, so that's making me hesitant.

If the drive is to lynch Pie, I get why, I just don't think it's the best choice we can make right now. Hence, my vote's going on Kohai.

VTL Kohai

I don't ever like the habit of waiting to confirm roles. I think it incentivizes scum to do things that extend their lives a DP. It's nonsensical, plus if you town read them or scum read them based on the role itself than it says nothing of your behavioral reads.

Insofar as those roles don't confirm affiliation, I agree.

I am willing to lynch wryly and whiteflame if you can get some traction there , but you seem unable to lead any segment of town here so I'm not sure why I am telling you this.

I like banana behaviorally for some reason I can't put my finger on. I think it was something she did dp1 that I already forgot about

I sincerely have no idea how Wryly's in your POE at this point. I'd like to understand where this read on Banana is coming from.