we can switch to shining for now but all mago really did was claim there wasn’t any reads or anything but since shining has given less I’ll switch to him
Not giving him a pass, but I'd like to at least get Shining involved in the DP and then we can make a call on who to pursue for a fullclaim before deciding on a lynch.
Unvote
So as regards this discussion, based on my character and others that I can nail down largely from the softed set, there seem to be two types of MAGA at play among the claims:
I highly doubt that the theme split is between these two. I think town has both and scum have some non-MAGA or former MAGA characters for reasons I've already mentioned. It makes me wish I'd sought soft claims along these lines instead, but I think adding more details to our softclaims would be a big mistake at this point.
If I'm right about who Kohai is and he is actually town, then Magoroth is also likely town. Getting into the why of it would require me to out who I think their characters are, so unless we need to get into this to decide a lynch, I'll leave it at that.
As for who I think would be a better choice to pursue, I'm good with getting a full claim from Mag1c, Shining or REF. Mag1c's posts townreading Kohai have put him back in my null pile with the other two, so I have no preference in terms of how I'm reading them. In activity, however, only two of those have been recently active. So...
VTL Shining
Sure but 51 was pretty early in the game. With all the people in this game adding additional details to their claim, I’d look at the mid and back of pack.
Also fair, despite myself being in the middle of the pack.
All that being said, we can't discount the possibility that scum already used their questions and have fake character claims nailed down that will look authentic. I have good reason to believe at least a couple of MAGA characters are in this game as characters Pie would include, but after that, thing will get tricky.
I wasn’t asking for that i was just wondering how we can know what characters are town or not if we do not know what the theme split is. i might assume trump is town but that’s about it
As I said earlier, I think we can assume that scum were not given characters that could easily go unnoticed if claimed. Pie gave them four questions, which suggests they are in need of good character and role fake claims. As an example, I ran a game just a little bit ago with Barry characters where I'd given scum two of the MCs, and as a result, they only got two questions to ask. If everyone in this game is just straight up MAGA and the split is more subtle, then I doubt they'd need so many questions since they probably could get away with just straight up claiming their characters, or at least one of them could. So I think we can assume that the split is current MAGA people vs. some flavor of non-MAGA or former MAGA.
i think that narrows him down to like 3 or 4 people but im not sure why any of them r solid town
I'm going to avoid speculating since that might result in him outing who he is. I agree there are about that number of possibilities.
I'm comfortable leaving my vote where it is, though I would vastly prefer Magoroth's participation to lynching him blind. A character claim would help a lot there.
it seems we are agreeing on the ideas behind on most of our reads here, that makes me a bit more comfortable with the idea that you are town
Don't usually like to undercut townreads, but I know I wouldn't be the first person to try to largely line up my reads with a town player for towncred. Not that you're for sure town, just saying it's not the strongest basis for a townread.
i dont think i picked up on that, thanks for the heads up
Yeah, his original VTL came with the statement that Thoth was "disrespecting the greatest president in US history," which seemed more like he was embodying his character than actually placing a serious vote.
wait a darn second i thought he was softing trump, but trump wasnt a US senator. that moves him back down a notch on the town list for me.
Can't say I thought he was softing Trump. If he's who I think he is, he's pretty solid town.
Regardless, I just posted an RFD that took a lot of time to work through and I'm low on bandwidth for more discussion tonight. I will pick this up early tomorrow and we can discuss who we want to pursue.
I can at least give my thoughts on POE.
I largely agree with Banana's reads on who is likely town. Thoth has had occasions where he's drawn a lot of attention to himself unnecessarily as scum, but this would be a hell of a way to do it and I don't really buy it. I don't think Kohai has been very focused this game and his vote seemed to come up largely to have some fun with the theme, just not sure why it's still up. In any case, especially if he's who I think he is, he's most definitely town. Wylted is consistently difficult to read, but so far he's playing to his meta. If anything, he seems a little more focused up than I expected, but not enough to raise a red flag, so I give him a slight town lean. I put Banana in a similar boat to Kohai. I think I know her character and I think it's unlikely you're scum as a result, even if behaviorally you've been pretty distinct from the last time we played.
A varied pool of null and slight scum.
I'd say REF is pure null. He just has not been talking about the game much, which makes him difficult to read.
Shining is pretty null, too. He pushed back on theme analysis, mentioned Thoth's post edit as odd, and said he would back any choice we make for who to pressure. Tempted to put pressure on him just for that, but it's the kind of passivity I expect from DP1 Shining.
Mag1c I have a slight scum lean on. He has been more engaged, but in ways that make it difficult to get a bead on him. His read on Wylted looks good, but his pushback on the softclaim came far too late and after he'd already softed.
Similar boat for Magoroth. I think he's just been really inconsistent for the few posts he's made so far. I don't mind that people are challenging the use of softclaims, but it's weird that both of them challenged their use and softed without any pressure to do so. Slight scum.
So I can see a case for pressuring any of those bottom four.
well i def know im not good at this game but im trying my best to do better. im open to feedback about my playstyle but i dont think ive been doing anything scummy personaly. i feel like ive been bad in the past mostly because of inactivity and nt being caught up, so im making a point to try and be more active
Yeah, I get it. Like I said, not currently scumreading it, I just see what he's getting at.
I see your additional soft so I guess I’ll also make an additional soft, although 99% chance you’ll guess it immediately. I was a former US senator.
A bit excessive since that does narrow it down a lot, but not completely. That being said, pretty sure I know who you are, even though there are other options.
Can't a mod just look at the previous post version and see that all I did was add a missing word? And you all know I wouldn't edit something game-related anyway.
I don't have that kind of access, so you'd need to talk to an admin like Savant. That being said, it seems like a lot of work to go through for something that isn't terribly important. You edited a post and drew attention to it publicly. From where I'm sitting, that doesn't square with you being scum.
i feel like ive contributed to the game more than a quite a few people have.
It's not really a question of how much you've contributed, more one of what kinds of contributions you're giving. He's pointing to a pattern of behavior. It doesn't scream "scummy" to me, but it is a little off of your normal style of play looking back through our games on DART. It's been long enough and your interactions are consistent enough that I'm not automatically scumreading it, and it's not like you've never contradicted others' reads and thoughts about the game setup before, just seems like that's common to your responses this game and that stands out. I get where wylted's coming from at least.
I'll give them a read-through. Don't have a lot to go off of anyway and it gives me something to focus on.
I am like 90% sure that banana is scum I don't want to put a lot of effort into corralling you guys and since we have no good choices other than her let's just lynch her.
Can you at least give me some idea of why, or is this just a strong gutread?
but if he knows this is a common tell of his wouldnt as scum he want to try and blend in by acting like that
Maybe, that's why I said it's either a towntell or NAI to me. I could see REF using this kind of post to look a little townier to people who know him well, I put similar likelihood on his investment being low.
shining seems to fit this category as well, doesnt seem to really post anything of substance but critizes people for making theme analysis even though he doesnt offer anything to go on in its place
True, and he's pinged me as well. I'd say it's the inconsistencies post-to-post that have Magoroth a little higher on my list.
I can see where you're coming from, even if I have some trouble believing that he posted something incriminating and felt the need to remove it at the potential cost of getting modkilled. I don't like that he did it and I'm not saying I'm buying wholesale into the reasons he's given for doing it, I'm just not convinced he did it specifically to remove a scummy element of his post only to then call attention to the removal.
As for explaining his state of mind, he said already that it was because a typo ruined a joke he was trying to tell. I don't know how much he can expand on his state of mind beyond that if he's telling the truth.
To be clear, I don't see these as towntells. It's a baffling choice, but it comes off as NAI to me.
Relative lack of participation on your part is pinging me a bit. You started off the DP saying you'd be busy, came back in and sussed me for seeking softclaims before just providing yours and, later, calling it "weak softing" without "much purpose." Would like to get some thoughts on the DP so far, since all I'm seeing here is inconsistency.
VTL Magoroth
vtl rexfavilla, i feel like im pretty lazy and inactive, but even im caught up, im getting the impression he hasnt read the game and is looking to follow other peoples opinions. asking for some case on thoth instead of just reading a few posts himself to find out, seems like he isnt that invested in the game
There are other elements of his play that make him questionable for me, but this reads as more of a towntell or NAI from REF. He's more likely to be invested and following the game if he's scum.
Stepping over a line but also I do think he is marginally more likely to do this as scum. I have had an urge to do it as scum in situations where I thought I could do it before anyone noticed just from not being careful with my words. What is he like 2/9 to be scum. That sort of thing may make him 3/9 to be scum in my opinion
Not sure how it makes him more likely to be scum. He's calling attention to himself and potentially resulting in a mod kill. Thoth is the kind of guy who wouldn't necessarily touch base with his partner before making a choice like this, but it's odd that he'd be this cavalier.
He edited his post and I am more willing to forgive a new player. Kohai had his vote on him prior to the edit
Do you think he's likely to have done this as scum, or do you just think he should be punished for stepping over that line?
Given that we're nearing the end of the DP, we should at least be focusing up on who we want to push, so I'll second your question in #149 for REF and Thoth.
While we're at it, though, your and Kohai's votes have been on Thoth for a while. I get that he hasn't responded to your question about other names he's known by on here (he does have a history on DDO going way back, but not in mafia), but he has a pretty solid history going on DebateCraft. Is there another reason you're sussing him?
And @Kohai, is there any reason your vote has persisted?
I’m concerned that the existing soft-claims list is full enough that scum have a decent shot at finding believable fake-claims now, especially if they aren’t concerned about saving their questions for roles.
They're also now locked into some pretty specific pools of characters they could be, which could make things easier depending on how you look at it. It means they'll be forced to ask about a narrower set of people, and if they do decide to just throw in all their questions to get character claims, then there's more chance they'll be CC'd based on their roles.
well ur much more experienced than me so i will take your word for it. im not fully suggesting we claim frivosly but mostly trying to say that if we have a good scum pursuit and say they are acting super scummy to multple ppl we should not be afraid to pursue a claim from them to alleviate the pressure, tho i guess thats kind of obvious that someone close to getting lynched would probably claim first.
Experience can lead to its own set of mistakes, so please, challenge me. We absolutely should seek a claim if we have a good read and/or if we're at the point where we have to lynch someone. I'd rather make that decision before the waning hours of the DP as hasty decisions always seem to bite us, so this is just a limiting factor from my perspective.
from this it seems pretty clear that there are either no dems or dems are scum. which means the theme split could be potentlly complex if its not just dems vs repubs.
im thinking theres something to this tho that will become clear when more people are in the graveyard
I don't think we can assume much of anything about the split at this point. Thoth was asking earlier about whether we're all real people and, from the looks of things, everyone falls into that category. We know that scum were given 4 questions, which suggests they needed both fake character and role claims and therefore couldn't just straight up claim their characters (I doubt Pie gives them that many questions if they could), so whoever scum is, they're not straight up MAGA figures. As has been suggested by several people, though, that leaves a lot of options. Could be Democrats are scum, could be former MAGA members or at least complicated figures in the space, could be RINOs or Republicans who are outright antagonistic to Trump. Thoth pointed back to where Pie said that the game encompasses "various players in the MAGA Movement," but that might just apply to town members and not to scum.
1. Thoth - Role PM mentions a lot of stuff from 2016 election, held political office before 2016 - ??
2. Magoroth - Republican, not in either Trump administration - ??
3. Mag1cman - currently in the Trump administration - ??
4. Whiteflame - not in the Trump administration, but in Trump's orbit, has not held political office - ??
5. Kohai - major part of the Trump admin and loyal supporter - ??
6. REF - not in the Trump administration, but in Trump's orbit - ??
7. Shining - currently in Trump administration - ??
8. Banana - currently in the Trump administration, deals with money - ??
9. Wylted - public official, not in the Trump administration, but in Trump's orbit - ??
Alright, that's everyone. I added some details that have been suggested since I last posted this and cleaned this up a bit. Just grouping people a bit:
Shining, Banana, Kohai, and Mag1c are all in the Trump administration currently
Wylted, REF, Magoroth, Thoth and I are all in Trump's orbit and are/were not in the Trump administration 1.0/2.0
Wylted, Magoroth, and Thoth have either said straight up or insinuated that they are/were political figures
I'll give a little bit more detail for my softclaim as well. My character has not (yet) held any political office.
tru but if the person pressured to claim first is scum also they will be in a predicament where they have to quickly use there questions, so someone delaying a claim could be a good lead, or they are just a power role or something. I am not suggesting we claim or anything, just kind of curious how we pursue someone we suspect if we dont want them to claim ya know
I've caught up and, at least based on the specificity of your soft claim (I won't openly speculate about who you are, but it seems pretty clear), I have good reason to townread you right now.
I get your logic, I just don't function under the pretense that the first person we push to claim will be scum. It's not super likely and the result of anyone else claiming is that it narrows the available options for fake claims to ask about. We will have to pursue claims regardless, but my point was that we have to be careful about how many claims we get this DP so as to reduce the information scum have on hand. We should limit the field of choices by as little as possible so that when scum ask their questions, they are more likely to be told a given character or role are in the game and therefore have to just guess at who and what roles are not, increasing the chances they're CC'd.
I'm a little shocked that people seem supportive of potential war with Iran.
Can't say I do, but yeah, surprised as well.
1. Thoth - Role PM mentions a lot of stuff from 2016 election - ??
2. Magoroth - Republican, not in either Trump administration - ??
3. Mag1cman - currently in the Trump administration - ??
4. Whiteflame - not in the Trump administration, but in Trump's orbit - ??
5. Kohai - major part of the Trump admin and loyal supporter - ??
6. REF - not in the Trump administration, but in Trump's orbit - ??
7. Shining - Currently in Trump Admin - ??
8. Banana - ?? - ??
9. Wylted - public official, not in the Trump administration, but in Trump's orbit - ??
Only Banana remains.
1. Thoth - Role PM mentions a lot of stuff from 2016 election - ??
2. Magoroth - Republican, not in either Trump administration - ??
3. Mag1cman - currently in the Trump administration - ??
4. Whiteflame - not in the Trump administration, but are in Trump's orbit - ??
5. Kohai - major part of the Trump admin and loyal supporter - ??
6. REF - ?? - ??
7. Shining - Currently in Trump Admin - ??
8. Banana - ?? - ??
9. Wylted - public official, not in the Trump administration, but in Trump's orbit - ??
And there are the rest I could find. Only missing Banana and REF, so tagging them.
