whiteflame

While it's fair to point out that I am inactive and inactive = bad for town generally, I'd invite you or any of my past scum partners to say out loud now or forever hold you peace. Have I ever implemented the strategy of lurking as scum? Even once? If the answer is no, then you'd have to assume im trying a new strategy here. That's all I can really say on this topic.

It's wifom, but you'd think if I was getting active pings in discord Id have been more likely to remember to check the thread.

Fair point, though it's tough to read inactivity/lurking one way or the other, particularly when the game has been pretty low energy so far. I'm still more willing to put pressure on Wylted than I am on you, mainly because it's more off-brand for him.

I'm fine with switching to Luna, just want us to be focused on a single target this DP. We have much of tomorrow to get this done as well, so lets not waste the time. Heading off for the night.

Yeah, I don't usually love focusing on inactivity as a reason to sus someone, but this game it seems like an issue for you two in particular. And if we're getting one of you, Wylted has struggled with fake claims of late, so I'll go with him:

VTL Wylted

I'm good with getting precisely one more claim this DP and then making a decision based on that claim. Getting it right at the end of the DP is going to yield a pretty chaotic end, so I'd prefer to get it sooner rather than later so that we can discuss it and ask questions/give insights where appropriate.

In terms of picks, I'm fine with focusing on one of the more inactive players, and my attention right now is on Luna or Wylted, who have had minimal contributions and largely stayed in the background even when they're on.

Problem with that is they'll think they're going to be lynched, panic, and unless they're a miller or a beloved princess or a vanilla they'll claim and we'll go 'oh they claimed a good role, need to pick a new target just in case' and then the same thing will happen and we'll end up with either a no-lynch or a bunch of claims out there. I agree with RT to just lynch an inactive. Because unless we're going to lynch McDonalds no matter what he claims it's not like asking him for a claim will solve the lynch target problem.

I frankly don’t understand why the first scenario is a problem. A VTNL in the instance where the claim looks pretty good seems entirely appropriate and makes a whole lot more sense than just blind lynching, especially given the even number of players. Getting everyone to agree ahead of time that they shouldn’t out their claims no matter what our choice says they are prevents getting multiple other claims, so I don’t see that as a substantial problem.

Well I can claim or not. I can do anything. 

But maybe we should vote on me role revealing.

So far, Mikal’s the only one who’s really pursuing your claim, so hang on a bit. We’re likely going to have to choose just one person to get a claim from to prevent some mod-derived shinanegans (there’s a portion of the setup that leads us to believe that too many claims might give scum a boon of some kind), so I’d rather not have anyone volunteer to claim without a group decision.

We have a little under 24 hours left. We have plenty of time to make content, form basic reads, and interact with each other before blindly claiming. If we have to lynch someone I'd rather lynch someone who isn't playing or has very little activity. 

So… your pro blind lynching someone who isn’t active? Or would you seek their claim first and then make a decision? Because if it’s the latter, then we’re on the same page.

with all due respect the last thing we need is more claims.

So... explain to me what you'd like to do at this point. Are we lynching you? Are we lynching blind? Or are we VTNLing? Because those are the only three ways by which we don't seek a claim since yours is the only one on the table. Also, maybe I'm just not cautious enough, but I don't think anti-claim mechanics generally afford scum big gains for a couple of claims, particularly if one is a partial claim. Is there some mechanic I'm unaware of where that amount of claims gives scum a major leg up?

I'm not entirely averse to seeking either Luna's or McDonald's claims. Don't love pushing a new player to claim first just because he's new, but it is harder for him to fake a claim and stick with it, so I understand the logic. Still good with pursuing someone who just haven't been very active up to now, and I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt for now since you did mention you'd be absent.

I think he means Supa... though I'm pretty sure he's not in this game, so I don't know why Mikal is mentioning him.

Also, since we're discussing who to seek a claim from at this point and I do want to solicit more opinions:

Unvote

You've been participating, so I'll set aside my earlier reason for seeking a claim. That being said, you seem averse to any claims at this point. I understand wanting to avoid any anti-claim mechanics and just pick up behavioral reads, but a) I'm seeking all of one claim this DP, which I doubt will wreak havoc if we get it, and b) we're not going to blind lynch regardless, so unless we're just committing to a VTNL, we're very likely to get at least one claim this DP.

Don’t have a lot to go on this DP in general, so I’m fine pursuing one of the less active players for a claim at this point, hence my vote on Rex. He’s certainly not the only one - I agree with Thoth that Luna’s been around sporadically but not contributing much, Wylted’s been pretty minimalist with his posts which is unusual, even if I’m townreading him a bit, and Mikal’s absence was at least stated by him and has basically been absolute - but we have to start somewhere and Rex is the biggest outlier in terms of activity having stated that he’d be online intermittently when he initially posted and vanishing since then. Anti-claim or no, I think it’s worth getting at least one more claim before we decide who to lynch (or abstain from it entirely, which may be the correct move given the even number of players).

Mostly gutread. Whiteflame's sheer amount of helpfulness makes me sus. Like he's going out of way to make himself look helpful.

At least that’s something. I can’t say it’s anything unusual for my normal play, but we haven’t played together before, so I get the sus.

And I don't think you should, either, so that makes two of us.

Objective achieved.

What is FOS?

Finger of Suspicion, basically just pointing to someone and saying you're suspicious of them for some reason.

Aside from myself being town, I gotta say asking me to soft-claim male/female makes me think you are scum and trying to trick me into something related to your role. Maybe that's a common form of soft-claiming on here, though. Again, this read might evaporate if I knew your playstyle better, but I'm slightly mafialean on you. I just made up the word "mafialean", so I hope that's the term y'all use.

Usually use "scumlean," but it works. As for Pie's softclaim efforts, it's fair to sus these attempts (you're hardly the first) as an attempt by mafia to get information that can help inform fake claims for scum or figure out who could be a power role. That being said, if we're just talking sex, I don't think that affords scum much useful information and it locks players into a subset of claims, and even if that subset is still rather large, it affords scum less wiggle room to fake their claims. It's a balancing act. This is far from a first for Pie to pursue these kinds of softclaims, though he's been opposed to them on occasion.

How many scum do we probably have in a game this size? Three? Possibly two if there are neutrals?

In a 10 player game, it's almost certainly 2 scum. There could be a third party (TP) as well with this many, but for balance, it would be very unusual for there to be 3 scum in play.

In one of my first Discord Werewolf games, I purposely asked a ton of noob questions in day chat to make people think I did not have help. I guess it worked because someone said pretty much the same thing you did.

Fair, it would not be a first for me to see someone do this. That's why it's not a strong townread.

My next question is what characters are plausibly Popular, but if RT is town then figuring that out might be something you want to keep to yourself.

I would prefer if he kept that to himself. We don't want to pursue too many full claims this DP (especially since Casey strongly hinted that there may be mechanics in play that help scum if too many town players claim) and since he's already confirmed his role, that's enough information from him as far as I'm concerned.

Sorry, bit of a mix-up in the last post. When I said I slightly mafialean, I was actually referring to whiteflame, not ILikePie, although I slightly mafialean on both of them. Just a bad gut feeling on whiteflame.

That's a little strange since you were responding to Pie's statement, as well as his call for softclaims, when you said he was a "mafialean," but fine. If your gutread is that I'm scum, I'd like to know a little bit more of where that is coming from, but that's not really something I can argue against now.

My biggest problem last game is: (1) I was more focused on the MU game; (2) I was given two really really shitty roles in a role and had no clue what to do with either of them.

Yeah, I feel you. Hopefully, things go better this game.

Oh, and:

Unvote

Forgot that was still up there. Also:

VTL Rex

I realize you said you were going to be mostly inactive until Tuesday, but I'm looking for more than just a statement that that's what is up. If you're going to be on for any spurts, I'd like to see some contribution to the DP.

What I learned: The more town are inactive the worse the reads are going to be for the people actually putting in effort.

Totally agreed, hence I'm going to do what I can to be more active and hope that produces something.

I feel like it may have been better if I didn't make it bold.

Yeah, think so.

Yeah, this has felt pretty slow so far. Not a lot to cover for reads on my end, either, since much of what's been posted isn't pulling me in either direction.

The Popular claim from RT being confirmed does give him a little bit of a townlean from me. We just got off of a game where Pie was Popular Scum, and I don't think Casey set out to repeat that. I also don't think that scum's just going to give away their role that blatantly. It was a bit anti-town given the anti-claim mechanic that could be in place, but I still townread it.

I'd put McDonaldsReal in as a townlean as well. A lot of questions that fit more for a noob who isn't in a scum chat where they can ask about these things. Maybe that's the point, to make him look townie by asking these kinds of questions, but for now that's where I'm at with it.

I want to put Wylted in similar territory for immediately sussing the claimed Popular over outside shit. It's a much slighter townread since I usually have problems trying to read Wylted off of his first few posts - he tends to become clearer the more he participates - but this comes off as a particularly blatant way to start.

Everyone else is null, a number of inactive players or people who are giving reasons why they will be absent, which bothers me a bit since it means this lower activity is likely to persist throughout this DP. Need something to push this forward, and given the anti-claim, I'm fine with doing a softclaim in the vein Pie suggested:

I am male.

Unvote

Not going to lean on someone who has a stated issue with their availability. Going to need more from Wylted, though:

VTL Wylted

Got more to say than being frustrated with RT for outside reasons?

I’m good with seeking soft claims to avoid anti-claim issues, but we’ll have to do it in a directed fashion. For now, I’m willing to push on our absent players a bit to get more movement.

VTL Mikal

What’s up man, where are you?

Looking for some signs of life from you two today.

Alright, I consider RT confirmed as Popular from that. For context, when your vote went up, if RT was not Popular, he would have been lynched and Casey would have posted the result as 6/6 with your and my name next to it.

Anyway, it’s late and I’m tired, I can pick this up again in the morning.

Alright, that should do the trick.

Unvote

He did say that he was faking to get a wagon.

Pretty sure he's trolling with that statement. Unless his goal here is to get lynched to prove a point (and honestly, I can't imagine what that would be), he's telling the truth and, at most, trying to parse some information from how the wagon formed on him.

But I will do it's VTL and then UVTL right? To Unvote?

Make sure to bold them, but you would start with a VTL with his name, then you would just type Unvote under it.

So I just vote for RT? To see if their role is what we think it is? Cause if we're wrong we essentially vote someone off for no reason

Yes, you can look up his role claim if you want to see what we're getting at. It functions just like Loved, which means it takes one more vote than is usually necessary (so in this case, 7 instead of 6) to lynch him. Either he's lying about it (and he's had a chance to correct the record on that since he came back, so if he is lying, that's a major mistake on his part), or he's telling the truth and one more vote will not end him.

Just vote to lynch him, then immediately unvote.

We need one more to test this.

I’m giving a solo vocal concert.

Awesome. Break a leg!

Also, please everyone note the OP where it says this:

1. There may or may not be mechanics in play which punish claiming characters and/or roles, so claim at your own risk!

I'd prefer not to press our luck with that, so much as I appreciate RT's early very subtle softclaim, we'll need to be judicious with how many claims we provide/seek.

I know very little about Deltarune, so this is going to be interesting.

Jews gonna hate on other Jews, eh? Guess we should test that Popular claim (just to be clear, not sussing you... yet):

VTL RT