I did not expect the game to kick off for 2 days from now. I will try to make some showing
There is a reason I was a reserve. I will try to hold myself to my own standard and do better than the last game I played
I did not expect the game to kick off for 2 days from now. I will try to make some showing
There is a reason I was a reserve. I will try to hold myself to my own standard and do better than the last game I played
/Reserve
The purpose with the claiming every day is to give cop cover and allow them to reveal every day. Its a 0 cost thing for town thats beneficial.
Anyways, I probably have not played that poorly in years. Just didn't have it in me to do much of anything. Sorry for that. For a bit I wondered if I had screwed the town but it looks like singer gave my role to the Mafia after all.
I think Luna and WF both played extremely well. I really doubt I would have seen around that hard bus. It was pretty cool seeing WF reason out the correct move.
Well played guys
Weird. I used the button thing for that.
Yeah. I will wait for Luna to respond before hammer.
Not game related but I would like to hammer. I have a weird thing in my head of pretending Mafia has achievements and hammering every single day is something I have never done.
My favorite was a game on MU where I was scum and the top read town. Never got voted a single time even in RVS through the entire game. I figure thats a weird thing I may be the only player to have ever done in a game. If Mafia had achievements that would be a huge one.
Sorry that I am a odd mafia addict : P
Im fine with hammering Thoth any time. Need to focus on real life and I think we are in an ok position with a decent plan for D4. The worst case situation is still pretty good for Town.
If we are all in agreement I figure we should put the timeline on Luna.
If you have anything you want to say for what we have to deal with tomorrow we can give time. I honestly think they are just obligated to kill you given you can check between a 50/50 unless WF is a Godfather or something. Kohai being a Popular Godfather would be weird. I don't know how many games I have seen people have multiple passives but its weird world possible I guess?
Im fine with it. I do not see my position changing. The only thing more time will give me is allowing me to go through Thoth more.
The only outside thing I could see is if Noah redirected and it screwed with Luna's check. And yes- I did verify it could have. I was avoiding saying as much waiting to see if Kohai or WF would push that potential. Neither did. Really really really wish this site would obligate OoOs for games but anyone can message the host to verify for themselves.
I am somewhat less motivated to dig through WF and Kohai now. If they want to roll the dice killing me they are more than welcome to do so. Either way we basically end up with a town kingmaker for the Lylo tomorrow imo. If it ends up being me I can dedicate the time and brain cells when that happens. I did not do well digging through WF and Kohai yesterday although I am very focused on a lot of work shit at the same time.
Anyways. I have to have a separate meeting with a towing company. Open to thoughts but I am strongly looking at simply voting Thoth. Luna's behavior is just too consistent with their claim for me and Thoth I have concerns on before the red check.
Im not mad about the gamestate. Entering N3 Mafia is in a fucking mess. Lol.. I hope post game I can see their chat.
Originally Posted by whiteflame on 10/12/2026 at 10:23 AM (post #152)
Originally Posted by Kohai on 10/12/2026 at 11:21 AM (post #149)
Originally Posted by whiteflame on 10/12/2026 at 11:18 AM (post #147)
Or... you know, the bot just didn't register the vote.
Pretty confident savant will count it regardless.
I may update the bot to recognize both VTL: and VTL as valid
Fair. So the options basically come down to either Luna or Thoth being scum atp.
Unless Luna is scum we are now obligated to move on Thoth. Town can not win without voting Thoth if Luna is town.
I am open to hearing opposing thoughts on Luna. I did not get all the way through my ISO there and am in a bit of a time crunch today dealing with a separate business issue with a construction company before having a meeting about that other thing.
My opinion is that 'if' we move forward betting the game that Luna is town by voting Thoth it puts the scum in a position. Killing Luna mostly confirms me. They will have to deal with the green check and argue I am exactly a godfather. But what if I am some insta win for the town? Then they have a T! confirmed Luna as a kingmaker by killing me. But what if I am a PGO and did not alert N1? Would I do such a thing viewing that as a negative utility to town? Targeting me could make them loose anyways.
They are in a pickle I am fine with. I think its obvious at this point I lied about being a citizen with nothing.
I was working up a breakdown of Luna / Thoth. Specifically focused on if Lunas side was consistent. This is what I was pulling-
So Lunatic-
Their frustration with Shining D1 seemed pretty legit. That gave me a town read. While I am weird enough to get pissed about lurkers as scum I typically see town being the ones that get mad about it and I do not think that was faked. They also seem to push Noah to a lesser extent but with the same focus on D2.
D2 they are immediately focused on being told they could be partnered with me. Kinda makes sense for them to jump on that for a T! Lunatic defending themselves but also defending a green check. This post specifically caught my attention-
I am dubious of the helz wagon only because magic was sussing him all day phase and then he suddenly gets blackmailed, it kind of seems like it was set up to frame him. Do you think helz would be that blatant in blackmailing someone who was suspicious of him? I am open to it, but I am very very dubious.
Thoth is among my top reads, barely participating more than shining last day phase, I almost which I had let mago convince me to lynch him over shining, since shining is notorious for this behavior on both sides. Whiteflame I will stay open minded to as well but my initial thought with him is again that claiming to be vanillized is a strange strategy for scum to play. I can revisit that in the future and probably will, but it's enough for me to have some feelings about him being town. And I am not going to lie man, I find it really weird that you are the only other person in the game to mention a vanillizer in dp1. I just was skimming dp1 and seen you mention it. That said, if you are scum then one of magic or whiteflame would have to be lying since mafia usually only have an action each plus the night kill and you are confirmed popular.
Noah is weird for me, he's getting a lot of noob passes but I don't know how long I can give him those. His thoughts have felt pretty bland throughout the game. I am keeping in mind that this is a younger person, so I don't want to expect high level of play or anything. But his suspicions and overall activity haven't given me a lot to work with.
So all in all, I would have to say I am pretty open to everyone being scum but if I had to eliminate two I would say helz and whiteflame are more likely town in the group I mentioned. I can see magic pulling off some gambit here with the silence thing, especially knowing how busy he is in real life with his pizza shop. I do want to see how helz responds to some of the pressure he's getting, though from my pov there isn't a lot of shove behind it either.
Then later in post 238 there is more of the same challenging a FoS on me. This also lines up with having a green check.
@Mag1cman, I'm not sure what you're allowed to say, but if you can, could you explain the Helz vote at all? Even a yes or no on whether it's based on something from DP1 or something new would help.
Post 254 we pretty much have him flatly calling out Thoth as his top concern
Thoth, I said earlier you were one of my top reads and I want to follow through on that.
Kohai pointed out Mago was voting you when he died. I'll be honest, I lean towards that being WIFOM since killing the guy pushing you is pretty blatant, but it's still something I want to put to you.
Who do you think is lying between WF and magic, and why?
I know you said something about a hurricane adventure so I will wait as long is reasonable for a response, but you are still a top problem for me that we have to deal with at some point.
Here we see Luna calling out Thoth as his top concern.
I feel like all of this lines up. Pretty clean consistency that speaks to a Town Lunatic who really is just a cop with a check. In summary them being frustrated with Shining D1 checks out. Them checking me N1 makes a lot of sense. When I am doing well I get that people want to solve me immediately.
D2 I see a pattern of them being very critical of positions against me which lines up with a check on me. They also voice Thoth as their top concern which they now have checked and claim a guilty on.
Mechanically we have the big question of a 2x blackmailer. (I still feel some type of way that a blackmailer was in the game at all) but the balance of having a 2x is huge. The only way they could be scum is the situation of that being true + Thoth being the actual cop + Mafia getting exactly their role.
TLDR is I feel Luna is very likely exactly as they say and mech points to it as well. Thoth is just scum.
So to be clear- every single town has to vote together for town not to loose. Given Luna voted and can not unvote we now are obligated to pull this trigger.
Well fuck. I suppose I will drop what I half ass had together then..
Originally Posted by Kohai on 10/12/2026 at 8:45 AM (post #137)
The longer Thoth does nothing the more I wanna resolve him today
Yeah. I keep going back through you and WF and I feel like I am getting nowhere. Thoth would be the safe play. I just figure it guarantees they kill Luna and we are right back here afterwards.
Yeah. It would make sense. I am also paranoid.
Originally Posted by Lunatic on 10/12/2026 at 12:22 AM (post #126)
Originally Posted by Helz on 10/11/2026 at 11:17 PM (post #122)
Myself / Kohai / WF
That is the way forward imo. We can default to Thoth but as the safe option but it only means we deal with the same situation of Helz/Kohai/WF tomorrow but without your voice.
If I had to make a call on thoths scum partner it would be whiteflame or kohai and of the two, I would say I am probably leaning whiteflame more than kohai. I am willing to remove you off the table for being scum completely, and if I am wrong, well by jove you are good at scum lol you had me fooled hard.
I am about on the same page. WF is a scary good player and they have made a ton of sense. There is also just a lot that points at them.
I also question what the wolfs other role was if we accept WF is teamed with Thoth. Its an entire question given the only actions we have seen that seem to come from scum are removing WF's role and the BM. So if WF is the scum and lied about having their role removed what is the other scum and what do we know there?
Ignore that if you do not want to vet my participation btw. Woulda thrown it in a cut but the cut option this site has is only blacking out text. (Would be super cool to get the other thing especially with a reunion game I have in mind)
Wrapped up my business thing btw. Rough draft I worked up but just so you guys do not think I was using real life to excuse participation (Which I never do) this was my draft:
Repair conditions Frank fixing plumbing because it was flooding the office.
Applicable sections state:
Section 13 “MOVE-IN CONDITION: Tenant has inspected the leased premises and accepts it in its present (as-is) condition unless expressly noted otherwise in this lease or in an addendum. Landlord and any agent have not made no expressed or implied warranties as to the condition or permitted use of the leased premises or Property.”
So you accepted the property in its current condition.
Section 15 part C- “Repair and maintence Responsibility: Except as otherwise provided by this Paragraph 15, the party designated below, at its expense, is the responsibility to maintain and repair the following specified items must be maintained in clean and good operable condition. Etc…”
Section 15 part D subsection 11-
T (11)Plumbing systems, drainage systems and sump pumps
So dealing with plumbing is your responsibility.
Section 15 part E- “Repair Persons: If the Tenant conducts repairs they must be completed by trained, qualified, and insured repair persons. The Landlord reserves the right to preform repairs themselves or use whatever they feel is appropriate to conduct required repairs so long as the Tenant approves of the end product quality and it follows all legal requirements”
So if repairs were done we had to do them ourselves or be done by a licensed plumber who is also insured.
Section 15 part G-
“Notice of Repairs: Landlord must make a repair for which Landlord is responsible within a reasonable period of time after Tenant provides Landlord written notice of the needed repair. If Tenant fails to repair or maintain an item for which Tenant is responsible within 14 days after Landlord provides Tenant written notice of the needed repair or maintenance etc…”
So if repairs needed to be done and they were the landlords responsibility we had to be given written notice. This means my mailbox or email per contract. From backend conversations I do not think any of us care but tell me if you need something fixed. I literally would have done that for you even though its not my obligation to do so.
Section 15 part H-
“Failure to repair: Landlord must make a repair for which Landlord is responsible within a reasonable period of time after the Tenant provides the Landlord Written notice of the needed repair”
For future reference. Does not matter but just pointing it out for future problems.
Claus 12 sub section A: landlord may access the leased premises at any time for any reasonable purpose so long as the landlord will not unreasonably interfear with the tenants business.
-That does not mean come drink one to six beers on property then open our doors fo the public during non business day. And or give out free parts that you have no idea what they go to.
Applicable section states:
“Landlord may access the leased premises at any time for any reasonable purpose so long as the landlord will not unreasonably interfere with the tenant’s business operations when accessing the leased premises. “
I think we all agree here. While we did come up there to talk business and it was the first meeting of owners looking at the condition of the property if you have any problem with us drinking beer as we chat it will never happen again. Simple fix.
The issue brought up of us not knowing what belongs to who is valid. While the seat given away was given with the request of a good google review and future business and came from the bottom of a pile of seats, the other concern is understood of us giving away things that belong to a customer. While not a contract problem we can address this moving forward.
Section 36 L being told to pay rent access will be given to us is extortion.
So there is no applicable section for this. I can simply say that to be there you owe rent. On top of rent you basically have a 1268$ personal loan which is bad and why we will never again go there. I understand Jay has legal problems which I will help as I can. Lets not confuse the fact he has problems with the fact you are using a building, its equipment, and owe money to use it. Independent of requesting video this is a hard reality.
On if the contract was changed- On August 30 at 12:25PM Anthony.j.Mueller was given a digital copy of the proposed agreement. It was not changed to mess with camera inclusion. That never happened. I have other versions of the contract than that and I spent hours offering to go line by line walking through the details with you. I feel this is unfair.
Bill from 07/21/2026 to 08/19/2026 for electric
As for the light bill it even states in lease we signed 1st of September any bill occurance that was accumulated before that date is not ours. Also when we 25h for a light bill we are given an auto generated invoice not the bill
Well to start the original time frame was supposed to be from July 1st to August 1st. The agreement I had verbally was that was the month that was free. We gave a second month just to make the deal work (which very honestly no owner ever consented to or was happy about) because Jay had legal problems and all that. That’s fine. Contractually your exempt from the rent in August. It says nothing about the electric bill. We are fine with pro-rating that to make things work. But understand this is after paying over 5000$ in rent and 2 electric payments. Please understand how much we are bending over backwards to make this work here.
Then to be given a date and a deadline. The continence of disturbing and constant phone calls to all members involved in signing our lease contract and members who did not sign
I am very unsure what this means. I have total and absolute authority to sign for my side. My understanding is that your business is Frank, Anthony, and Jay. While I have written contact information for Frank and Jay the only phone number I have for Jay is Anthony’s. I am calling Anthony’s number to ensure him and Jay are up to date on what’s going on and their concerns are herd as we navigate these conflicts. I was instructed that he was the guy to go to for a number of things and have acted in accordance with that.
It has never been expressed to me that contact to Anthony is unwanted or that Anthony was removed from the business. If that is whats being insinuated let me know. It does nothing to change lability but I have no problem not reaching out to him if desired. And if you felt he needed to sign the contract as well we can also change that. I have absolute signing authority / agency to enter contractual agreements for my side if that was the concern.
So lets get into the Landlords concerns-
Applicable section states:
Section 4 A
“Base monthly Rent: On or before the first day of each month during this lease, Tenant will pay Landlord base monthly rent as described on attached Exhibit or as follows:
From 9/1/26 to 12/1/26 2500 a month”
Basic thing. 1st of the month rent is due.
Section 4 F
Place of Payment: Tenant must pay all rent timely without demand, deduction, or offset except as permitted by law or this lease. If Tenant fails to timely pay any amounts due under this lease or if any checks of Tenant is returned to Landlord by the institution on which it was drawn, Landlord after providing written notice to Tenant may require Tenant to pay subsequent amounts that become due under this lease in certified fund. This paragraph does not limit Landlord from seeking other remedies under this lease for Tenant’s failure to make timely payments with good funds”
Basic thing. I collect money and you pay regardless of other concerns outside of the law. Unless you want to argue a legal violation outside of the contract you still pay and we dispute issues separately from you paying rent. Saying “We will get this or else we will not pay” is not legal or an acceptable position.
Section 4 G
“Late Charges: If Landlord does not actually receive a rent payment at the designated place of payment within 5 days after the date it is due, Tenant will pay Landlord a late charge equal to 12.5% of the amount due. In this paragraph, the mailbox is not the agent for receipt for Landlord. The late charge is a cost associated with the collection of rent and Landlord’s acceptance of late charge does not waive Landlords to exercise remedies under paragraph 20”
(This is 312.5$) We could charge this. I am not looking to. Keep in mind it does apply and if we do not charge it its yet again us doing you a favor. And it clarifies that some promise of payment means nothing.
Section 8 A- Insurance agreement of 500k.
Section 8 B- Tenant must give landlord a copy of insurance certificates
I think its obvious you guys are not doing this and do not intend to. Nobody is happy about this.
Section 20 B
“If Landlord does not actually receive at the place designated for payment any rent due under this lease within 7 days after its due, Tenant will be in default etc..”
Conditions of Default. They are very easily met. I would like us to continue forward but I probably have 3 different things I could put you in default on.
Section 20 C
If Tenant is in default, Landlord may with at least 5 days written notice to Tenant: Terminate this lease, or (ii) terminate Tenant’s right to occupy the leased premises without terminating this lease and may accelerate all rents which are payable during the remainder of this lease or any renewal period. Landlord will attempt to mitigate any damage or loss caused by Tenants breach using commercially reasonable means etc..”
This is making it clear we can lock you out of the building within this timeline. Basically what will happen if payments do not happen. Time is not an option without money. Things will move very quickly.
Section 34
“All notices under this lease must be in writing and are effective when hand-delivered, mailed by certified mail return receipt requested, sent by a national or regional overnight delivery service that provides a delivery receipt, or sent by confirmed facsimile transmission to etc..”
(Basically my physical address or email and your guys addresses and emails)
Just something to clarify moving forward- this is how things work if you want to be litigious. I don’t. I would rather look you in the eye as a man and agree on things and have them happen.
Section 4 part C
Revenue-sharing Agreement: The tenant will pay 25% of Gross income minus cost of parts and rent to landlord for the first 1,000$ payable to the landlord. After 1,000$ the tenant will pay 15% of Gross income minus the cost of parts and rent to the landlord.
So looking at this it has not been upheld at all. Its also concerning that last month just looking at Norms bike sale was 1,700$. That’s not including a single other project. Only 800$ of income would cover everything. And by this agreement that in itself would be an additional 425$.
I dislike having to unpack this. I very much do not want to argue about the contract. I spent days of my life working on that contract and offering to walk through line by line on every bit of the contract and I hated hearing that you think I removed camera stuff to scheme as I twittle my mustache in a high backed chair to screw you.
End of story is simply that you pay money or you do not have access to the building. You have had 2 months of payment due and there are 2 electric bills. Technically 3 if we are talking about what cost is being created right now. Without touching profit sharing which again, we have been very kind about I truly hope you understand that there is no time without money. You need to at least pay back the electric loans and your rent or we will go into default and there will absolutely be no time. I will throw everything on the building out on the street
Time in the building costs money. Its that simple.
And in this situation not just right, but also not split. If that makes sense.
I would rather have your voice in the situation.
Biggest issue is we can not split our votes. 100% of town needs to exactly vote right or we loose.
Myself / Kohai / WF
That is the way forward imo. We can default to Thoth but as the safe option but it only means we deal with the same situation of Helz/Kohai/WF tomorrow but without your voice.
Originally Posted by Lunatic on 10/11/2026 at 11:42 PM (post #117)
Originally Posted by Helz on 10/11/2026 at 10:38 PM (post #115)
Originally Posted by Lunatic on 10/11/2026 at 11:16 PM (post #109)
For today do we resolve within that 1v1 or hunt outside of it? We 100% need 2 good lynches back to back. Assuming Luna is town they will certainly be killed tonight.
If they kill me and you survive to LYLO we should automatically win right? So in this case, I'd prefer to be killed.
What do you mean? I am confused
It depends on how your role works. The way I understand Soldier is that town automatically win if you survive to the end. Basically meaning if they kill me tonight, they have to place all of their chips on getting you lynched tomorrow or town will win. Considering you were investigated innocent, my flip as cop will make mislynching you harder unless they try to spin your the godfather tomorrow. I think in this situation scum would force a 50/50 between whiteflame and pie. So me dying would be ideal. If they choose to kill you and not me I get another night of results in LYLO. They are basically fucked with your role man, at the very least they can hope for is a 50/50 tomorrow, but they are forced to kill between you and me.
You dying ends the game. I have no winning mechanic. If I did I would have lied about my label.
I will maintain that my claim is that I am a citizen. That 'if' hypothetically I was lying its as a PGO or BP. Scum can WIFOM that out.
Originally Posted by Lunatic on 10/11/2026 at 11:16 PM (post #109)
For today do we resolve within that 1v1 or hunt outside of it? We 100% need 2 good lynches back to back. Assuming Luna is town they will certainly be killed tonight.
If they kill me and you survive to LYLO we should automatically win right? So in this case, I'd prefer to be killed.
What do you mean? I am confused
Originally Posted by whiteflame on 10/11/2026 at 10:41 PM (post #108)
Originally Posted by Helz on 10/11/2026 at 11:31 PM (post #106)
Originally Posted by whiteflame on 10/11/2026 at 10:09 PM (post #104)
Now that I think about it, we can still get one point of engagement from Thoth, which is actually posting a vote. Whether you're actually Blackmailed or scum and just playing this up, you still have a vote. Not saying you should do it now, but particularly if you are sussing Luna's claim, now's the time to clarify.
Pretty much my view.
So I am very familiar with Blackmailers. It was totally normal where I was from. But the entire thing was that they would essentially write a contract saying what can and can not happen then the person blackmailed would do whatever to squirm out of it.
I had one back in the day where I was blackmailed to accuse a specific person in every post and not say I was blackmailed. I made it really stupid obvious talking about whatever and adding at the end of every post "Also, I feel X is scum"
If all I had was a vote to work with I would use it to communicate. Thats less valid today where a vote becomes permanent so potential of a clever T! Thoth holding their vote to look at future options. Although I do get the concern given they did not just snap-vote Luna.
The one time I've seen a Blackmailer, it functioned far more similarly to what you're describing than this one, more a set of "do's" and "don'ts" than an effective ban on posting. Would love to see more of that here.
And yeah, I'm still pondering what his reason for not voting so far could be. I could see motivations for both scum and town on that level.
Yeah. Every time I have seen this its a silencer. I want to call bullshit but obviously a townie flipped dealing with it so whatever..
I can just imagine right now the scum team scratching their heads realizing this day did not go the way they expected
Originally Posted by whiteflame on 10/11/2026 at 10:09 PM (post #104)
Now that I think about it, we can still get one point of engagement from Thoth, which is actually posting a vote. Whether you're actually Blackmailed or scum and just playing this up, you still have a vote. Not saying you should do it now, but particularly if you are sussing Luna's claim, now's the time to clarify.
Pretty much my view.
So I am very familiar with Blackmailers. It was totally normal where I was from. But the entire thing was that they would essentially write a contract saying what can and can not happen then the person blackmailed would do whatever to squirm out of it.
I had one back in the day where I was blackmailed to accuse a specific person in every post and not say I was blackmailed. I made it really stupid obvious talking about whatever and adding at the end of every post "Also, I feel X is scum"
If all I had was a vote to work with I would use it to communicate. Thats less valid today where a vote becomes permanent so potential of a clever T! Thoth holding their vote to look at future options. Although I do get the concern given they did not just snap-vote Luna.
Originally Posted by Kohai on 10/11/2026 at 9:46 PM (post #100)
Originally Posted by Helz on 10/11/2026 at 10:44 PM (post #96)
Man.. Can we please get engagement here? Its Lylo under a timer...
I know. Thats the one thing that bothers me on this site.
On sites like MU you get 500 posts a day and here we are like a snail’s pace
I will say it would have been reallllly fucking great to get stronger engagement from Luna right now. I should have my thing wrapped up shortly. It was a 23 page contract I was digging through and I gotta consolidate the info I got into an email now but I should be able to turn focus to this game soon.