Lunatic

I only just checked my role PM and saw Mikal's message.

Its time to join brother, so we can have a discussion about our lord and savior Jesus Christ.

Pfft, that's actually hilarious. I know there was once a game on DART where Greyparrot actually outright claimed to be scum (he was). Somehow Pie still managed to carry him to victory.

Rule number one regarding greyparrot. He never lies.

Why are we not lynching Pie again?

The thing you are pursuing him for while not necessarily wrong, is entirely AI for pie. It's something I think he would do as town. But I've been playing with him for years.

Also, somebody tell me who Thoth is please.

He is just thoth. He had some account on DDO years ago that got banned or almost banned for something when he was a kid, but when he told me the story I don't even think I recognized the username he mentioned. I don't think he played mafia with us so I doubt you would know him.

You refuse to read the support.

Blatantly untrue. I even admitted you had a slight point with yours, just that it doesn't outweigh the counter points.

Great, now scum already have two crucial pieces of information. Town is playing really well already.

I do not see this as fatalistic as a few of you keep making it sound. I am happy to hear your argument though, but so far you just seem to be echoing a hollow statement “that it was dumb” without a lot of support.

Why would you out yourself right away?

As you are catching up I am sure you will read my explanation, but tl;dr I thought about it since yesterday and weighed the pros and cons. It wasn't a spur of the moment decision. Ultimately I don't really view the "Negatives" of it outweighing the pros. The only negative I can think of is the one mestari brought up about it being able to potentially use someone mis-reading me as a reason to lynch them. That logic is going to be very player dependent, and town are just as likely to fall into that trap. Its not the worst thing to scum read someone for, but it honestly isn't home run lynch logic either. The benefits are 1. I can't be killed night phase one, 2 I can pass the guild lead to someone in my guild if I do die, 3. I am already beating wylted since he recruited me meaning I don't have to worry about losing a recruit advantage against the other guild leader 4. I don't want town wasting power roles on me 5. I am commonly scum read as town and this saves a lot of time and energy for people to spend time on focusing down the remaining POE without having to spend an excess amount of time trying to read me as well.

All of this outweighs the potential very minor benefit of being able to use lynch logic against someone trying to lynch me who could just as easily be town anyways.

Okay well if you remember transformers mafia at all then you'll know to trust me.

I mean I don't remember it honestly. But I already went with the plan, so it doesn't really matter.

We shouldn't talk about when we received role PMs. There's all kinds of reason for variance. Let's drop out of game info being used as analysis.

I am happy not talking about it. But I would be lying if I say it didn't effect my recruit decision. Also I am open to being wrong about it as well.

Trekie hosted transformers mafia.

https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/4694-the-complete-mafia-archive

You are TUF, right?

Yessir

I know. It's very unlikely, but possible, that they recruited all four scum. But the more they recruit, the higher the probability of at least one scum in each guild grows. (Now I've been nerd-sniped by calculating the probability that at least one scum was recruited on night 0. I know how to do it if they couldn't recruit the same person, but that makes it harder.)

Recruiting scum isn't the end of the world unless they have some role activated upon recruitment. Passing guild leader to one after dying could potentially be bad though.

It is optimal. If it's not then blame the loss on me. You modded transformers mafia. Have some faith.

I do not think I modded transformers mafia, but anyways I am down. I recruited Helz and Rex hoping they would both be less likely to be recruited by the other guild recruiter. Rex I am mod psyching hard as town despite mikal saying not to read into him being added late, since everyone got their role pm's the day prior I am assuming (at least I did). Rex for some reason hasn't joined the mason chat despite posting in the day phase, so I am assuming he was also recruited by wylted and is just trying to decide which guild to join. Could be wrong there though.

No, I am the guy who suggested that we discuss whether or not we should soft

Again. Why?

ROFL

To be fair knowing pie's scortched earth play style i was going to be forced to claim this dp anyway

For once, I don't think this is a game where Pie's usual commanding presence means much of anything. There are some big dogs in this once.

Man, if I were scum here and Mestari and Pie were both town, I would be living the dream vacation. The two fearkill targets going mano-a-mano while I get to kick my feet up. This concerns me.

You pointing this out concerns me.

I say don't recruit anyone to make it more likely they will all be dead when the game ends so they all have 0 members

We might have already recruited mafia. And two we won't have any power roles if we just don't recruit.

If I correctly understand how guild recruitment works, this could give an interesting game-theoretic solution: If both guilds don't recruit anyone from now on, they will have the same number of members and should all win together. I will ask Mikal whether or not a tie in members lets the guild leader win.

I had two succesful recruits where wylted only had one so far, so I am already beating him. Also I would have to trust him not playing to his wincon and him trust me for this to work.

Yeah, I'm going to stick on Pie for now. He's pivoting between targets he sees as easy, not making reads directly tied to player behavior, shifting the burden of accuracy from himself to a confirmed townie to dissolve himself off accountability. It's giving either scum, or if he's town it's giving FT vibes. What I mean by that is refusing to ever accept being wrong and positioning himself to claim he wasn't wrong if it was clear he was. So if you tell me it's FT in a trench coat I'd buy he's town, but I'm happy with where my vote is for the evening.

Not necessarily defending pie here, but this is in character for him. Pie tends to focus heavily on mechanics and is a very "meta driven" lyncher. Sometimes it works well, he is the highest elo player. But we are working with a very diverse player set this game, so I am not sure how useful this playstyle will be here with so many DDO vets.

Anyway me, pie, lunatic and Thoth agreed to lynch you in the scum chat last game for some reason. We were probably going to stay with that course of action unless you became obviously town or somebody else appeared to scummy to ignore and alas Kohai appears so I wouldn't read too much into Pies reasoning to fuck with you

I don't think I agreed to that lol

I'm reading back to see why you decided to claim

Weren't you the guy who JUST SUGGESTED WE ALL SOFT?!

I specifically think that the guild leaders should out who they have already recruited and who they will recruit at night so that we can maximize the number of recruited players for the night where we agree to not recruit at all and use all of our actions at the same time. Wasting recruits by targeting the same people means less roles get activated on the big night.

Not opposed to this, I will have to think about the pros and cons a little longer though to make sure this is optimal.

Just send me to Gary, I want to be with Gary!

That one person who gets your reference and saves you from the crickets 🫂

Nah I liked the Rick and Morty reference too lol

So yeah I'll just hard claim my character is kohai. I won't claim roles yet but at least we can get that started

That's 500 points on bingo for "Either claims too early or too late".

You mean this?

also not gonna hop on your wagon just yet

already explained that

Can you link the post number? I was driving to work and missed like 4 pages that I am frantically trying to catch up on now.

Do I think Mestari as mafia would or wouldn’t? I don’t know. I have zero experience playing with him. But base case it’s scummy. He just seems kinda dumb too tho tbh, so maybe you’re right

Mestari isn't dumb. He is actually imo one of the best we've seen on DDO. I hate saying that because I don't want to boost his ego. He is a bit of an asshole, but that is neither here nor there.

Recruit me anyway so we can combine guilds. You will be my queen.

Yes if we openly discuss our recruiting plans, maybe they will look past the fact that were both actually scum and pulling another crazy gambit here. It's so crazy it might just work...

You are new! That's cute. We have a pup to raise!

sadly he’s played for years…

Do you think mafia would be risky enough to suggest a VTNL tho? No matter what, it attracts attention to the person suggesting it.

Sounds like you are town reading mestari. Why did you say you’d be willing to vote him earlier?

I'd like to suggest that we DISCUSS softing whether we are a show character or ourselves. Not that we do it, but that we discuss whether or not we should do it.

Why?

4 mafia, possible third parties, 13 or less town

That’s an oddly specific guess.