Mag1cman

whiteflame wrote:

Thoth wrote:

whiteflame wrote:

Also also, are you saying that your role is currently active and that you'll learn what it is by DP4 or that it will activate by DP4?

I have a role that was determined before the game started. I will learn what that role is at the start of DP4. This role has at least one ability. These abilit(y/ies) may be active or passive. It might be active now or it might not be. Pie won't tell me anything else about my abilit(y/ies) until DP4 starts. That's what I got between reading my PM and interrogating Pie.

Alright, that’s a unique design for a role, basically telling you that you have a hidden role and that it will be revealed later. I can better understand why you’d SOP claim that.

this is an ok post. It can be faked but it's ok

Mikal wrote:

This day is over in the am and half of us are prob about to sleep id imagine. Other than thoth cus he lives in hell. Can we land on what to do. Otherwise plurality may be awkward as fuck if it lands wrong and give scum a chance to land a random lynch

We need to land on something and consolidate on someone.

yup looking at others rn

@Helz jokes aside, it's just simple logic on Bullish. Nothing tmi about it

ah ur on rex's wagon

Helz wrote:

Mag1cman wrote:

so we agree bullish is town then?

No. I question your position starting from knowing that Bullish is town which looks like TMI.

Then I question all the direction you take from there. Please correct me where I am wrong but it seems like your demanding that player is town and then following up with thoughts about how town will react when they flip town.

This is suspect to me.

yup, you got me, I'm scum and I TMI'd that Bullish is town

so can you get off his wagon

Helz wrote:

Mag1cman wrote:

Helz wrote:

Mag1cman wrote:

btw if the mafia team needs me pointing out that Bullish is likely town by way of obvious PR behavior, just to figure out that Bullish is a PR, when he literally softed his character, and then claimed his character without claiming his role, then they can just have the hint cause they're clearly gonna need all the hints they can get lol

That was super not helpful to point out...

it is to stop a bullish mislynch

and to restate: If the mafia team needed my help figuring that one out, then they are a weak team who will screw up later anyway. I'm not worried.

I do not even know what level of WIFOM your coming from here but mafia wanting to kill a townie is kinda how it works. Your speaking from some perspective where you know Bullish is town and that post flip the mafia players will look bad for killing them also assuming that mafia made the elemination happen?

There is like so much mental gymnastics I have to do to understand your point it hurts. Best simple reply I can give is "Wut..."

so we agree bullish is town then?

Helz wrote:

Mag1cman wrote:

btw if the mafia team needs me pointing out that Bullish is likely town by way of obvious PR behavior, just to figure out that Bullish is a PR, when he literally softed his character, and then claimed his character without claiming his role, then they can just have the hint cause they're clearly gonna need all the hints they can get lol

That was super not helpful to point out...

it is to stop a bullish mislynch

and to restate: If the mafia team needed my help figuring that one out, then they are a weak team who will screw up later anyway. I'm not worried.

Mikal wrote:

Casey

alr ill take alook when im done catching up

Mikal wrote:

Do you really think rex over bullish?

I dont see it at all

moreso that i think bullish is more likely to be town than Rex.

wanna put some pressure on someone else?

btw if the mafia team needs me pointing out that Bullish is likely town by way of obvious PR behavior, just to figure out that Bullish is a PR, when he literally softed his character, and then claimed his character without claiming his role, then they can just have the hint cause they're clearly gonna need all the hints they can get lol

Banana wrote:

Mag1cman wrote:

Mikal wrote:

I think id rather push Casey. They seem to be sliding under the radar and I think more often than not. Scum get away with that. If the options we have are rex and bullish, id rather it be bullish. Rex still reads me as town

VTL: Bullish

do not vote bullish. the decision to soft radium long before he claimed it is incredibly towny, obvious pr behavior, he is probably the NK tonight if not lynched

@bullish only give role if you're at l-1

i dont know you should be drawing attention to this, he only has 3 votes i think.

the concern is towny

Thoth wrote:

Mag1cman wrote:

Thoth wrote:

Mag1cman wrote:

I'm aware, but my point is that town Whiteflame has incentive to avoid horsing around, because said horsing around gives mafia tiny amount of info. yeah it can be fun to post stuff like this, but I think town would be more conscious of what their little games could reveal to the mafia team

This game has 13 players and 118 potential ‘characters’. I wouldn’t have thought twice before making that joke lmao

sure, but magnesium has some common everyday uses iirc

tell me why krypton, neon, and xenon are all that different. Outside of Oganesson and Helium, all the noble gases are essentially the same character, the only common use for them i know is one they all share: they make the signs glow. I doubt Pie went ultra-specific with an obscure use that one random metal or noble gas has that the others don't. if some claims have their uses as justifications, it gonna be common uses and as such, the character pool is effectively far less than 118

And you don’t think there is a chance Pie thought of that and included some less commonly discussed elements? If I were designing this game, I would choose the elements randomly.

not really. If I'm designing a game, I'm not gonna explore a deep dive into how Xenon is oh so different from Krypton. If the differences are that obscure, then they're not unique. I'm gonna use the more unique elements to have a greater array of variety.

Mikal wrote:

I think id rather push Casey. They seem to be sliding under the radar and I think more often than not. Scum get away with that. If the options we have are rex and bullish, id rather it be bullish. Rex still reads me as town

VTL: Bullish

do not vote bullish. the decision to soft radium long before he claimed it is incredibly towny, obvious pr behavior, he is probably the NK tonight if not lynched

@bullish only give role if you're at l-1

Thoth wrote:

Mag1cman wrote:

I'm aware, but my point is that town Whiteflame has incentive to avoid horsing around, because said horsing around gives mafia tiny amount of info. yeah it can be fun to post stuff like this, but I think town would be more conscious of what their little games could reveal to the mafia team

This game has 13 players and 118 potential ‘characters’. I wouldn’t have thought twice before making that joke lmao

sure, but magnesium has some common everyday uses iirc

tell me why krypton, neon, and xenon are all that different. Outside of Oganesson and Helium, all the noble gases are essentially the same character, the only common use for them i know is one they all share: they make the signs glow. I doubt Pie went ultra-specific with an obscure use that one random metal or noble gas has that the others don't. if some claims have their uses as justifications, it gonna be common uses and as such, the character pool is effectively far less than 118

Thoth wrote:

whiteflame was horsing around. Magnesium has a white flame on a Bunsen burner

I'm aware, but my point is that town Whiteflame has incentive to avoid horsing around, because said horsing around gives mafia tiny amount of info. yeah it can be fun to post stuff like this, but I think town would be more conscious of what their little games could reveal to the mafia team

whiteflame wrote:

Thoth wrote:

I am Oganesson. I don’t know what my role is and won’t learn it until DP4. Justification is that very little

is known about Oganesson and it will probably be a while before it’s seriously studied. I am SOP-claiming in case it’s something SOP-claimable.

So... hmmm...

On the one hand, I want to just townread this because it's such a weird pull. I'm not familiar with Oganesson (it was only discovered in 2002 and in general any of the ones listed under the "unknown properties" section of the table is beyond my limited knowledge), but it's an odd part of the Table to grab from, especially if you're looking for a fake claim. There are probably 3 scum in this game so it's possible that one of them would just go for it rather than waiting to ask questions, but this doesn't seem obvious, nor does the whole "I discover my role 4 DPs in" aspect. It's weird that that's so delayed, but in a game with this many players, reaching DP4 is pretty likely.

On the other hand, I don't get this as an SOP claim. It's an unknown role, not an SOP one. Maybe this is just Thoth being extra cautious, or maybe this is him trying to give himself some towncred out the gate in hopes he'll avoid investigations. I don't like the decision, even if I kind of townread the claim itself.

looking at this from whiteflame

I dont find this selection so weird from scum Thoth, given what happened in past games.iirc, I was not the only townie to express some skepticism of the claim on the grounds that it's an easy way for town to keep off him for a while. Given that incentive, it's not such a weird pull at all. As for it being SoP or not, if he's town, it would be be very bad if he didn't sop only to find out he's hidden negativity... something I think Whiteflame in particular should be aware of given he and I have put negative utility in his games before, particularly the setups he asked me for help with.

So he townreads the part of his claim i find off, and scumreads the obvious town incentive. I wonder if a post like this is whiteflame conceding in his head that it's such an obviously townie claim, but then still trying to find a way to poke holes in it so town doesn't run with town thoth being town

Thoth wrote:

Furthermore, the mod has little incentive to have role that gets revealed dp4. you see, it's not just that the game coulnd beforehand, it's also that surviving until DP4 is tricky.

I think it’s more likely than not that my role will take effect before then, and Pie said that it will be revealed in my flip regardless of when I die. Plus, with 13 players, more than half will be alive on DP4 unless there are extra kills, which there might be, but even then the odds are decent.

point noted. good argument

whiteflame wrote:

Oh boy, this one should be fun. I am sadly not Magnesium, so my white flame won't shine bright this game. Still, I'll try to work with what I have. I do have a more than passing familiarity with the Periodic Table, though being a life scientist, probably less than most physical scientists have. Be interested to see how the Table was divvied out and I've got some thoughts on possible theme splits that I'll keep to myself for now.

i figured out what bothered me about whiteflame. it's this post. @whiteflame are you able to find an example of you doing this as town?

If don't see the incentive for town whiteflame to out that he's not magnesium. I'm aware it's a follow-up from the sign-ups thread for funsies, but I still think town whiteflame has more of an incentive to not give mafia even the slightest bit of hints.

Magoroth wrote:

whiteflame wrote:

Thoth wrote:

I am Oganesson. I don’t know what my role is and won’t learn it until DP4. Justification is that very little

is known about Oganesson and it will probably be a while before it’s seriously studied. I am SOP-claiming in case it’s something SOP-claimable.

So... hmmm...

On the one hand, I want to just townread this because it's such a weird pull. I'm not familiar with Oganesson (it was only discovered in 2002 and in general any of the ones listed under the "unknown properties" section of the table is beyond my limited knowledge), but it's an odd part of the Table to grab from, especially if you're looking for a fake claim. There are probably 3 scum in this game so it's possible that one of them would just go for it rather than waiting to ask questions, but this doesn't seem obvious, nor does the whole "I discover my role 4 DPs in" aspect. It's weird that that's so delayed, but in a game with this many players, reaching DP4 is pretty likely.

On the other hand, I don't get this as an SOP claim. It's an unknown role, not an SOP one. Maybe this is just Thoth being extra cautious, or maybe this is him trying to give himself some towncred out the gate in hopes he'll avoid investigations. I don't like the decision, even if I kind of townread the claim itself.

I hadn’t considered the possibility he is lying. If he’s telling the truth, I think it says a bunch of stuff about the setup that it would probably be unwise to discuss…

no chance setup speculation is OGI. I ran my mod psych argument on the incentives of a DP4 activiating/revealed role by Pie, he said mod psych isn't OGI. So I doubt setup spec is OGI.

tbh, my mod psych there is a bit of setup spec, so you should be good if you think it would be beneficial to town

whiteflame wrote:

Thoth wrote:

Unknown could be SOP. Imagine how pissed people would be if I turned out to be Paranoid Gun Owner. And while y’all are at it, don’t put me at L-1 unless you intend to lynch me, on the off chance I am Hated.

I don't want to get too in the weeds about what your role could be if it activates by DP4 (I have a few ideas), but the idea that it's just a negative utility role waiting to activate a time in the game where it could dramatically shift the balance of the game doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Also, I'm not sure why you'd default to thinking it is negative utility, let alone something like PGO.

Also also, are you saying that your role is currently active and that you'll learn what it is by DP4 or that it will activate by DP4?

this post: I can see the town incentive and the scum incentive. both are kinda obvious

being able to clear notis is so nice

Thoth wrote:

Re: #504. How is Bullish town by softing?

Softed radium, then revealed it later. Obvious PR behavior, as mafia has already figured out by now. It obviously looked like a soft the second he posted it. For obvious reasons, I didn't wanna say that earlier.

hmmmm

that could change the incentives of his wagon in particular. maybe.

Thoth wrote:

I am Oganesson. I don’t know what my role is and won’t learn it until DP4. Justification is that very little

is known about Oganesson and it will probably be a while before it’s seriously studied. I am SOP-claiming in case it’s something SOP-claimable.

Town Thoth does have an incentive to SoP for the given reason, that is correct. However, scum Thoth has a massive incentive to avoid early pressure and keep town off pressuring him for some time; this also has the benefit of saving the role claim for much later. This is exactly what I'd expect scum Thoth to do heading into this game. Furthermore, the mod has little incentive to have role that gets revealed dp4. you see, it's not just that the game coulnd beforehand, it's also that surviving until DP4 is tricky. any mislynch, or NK, or even something like a governor vote or vigilante, can end the run long before anything is revealed.

Magoroth wrote:

RexFavilla wrote:

There's no escaping little scumster.

So whats that supposed to mean? If I’m scum I’m supposed to just give up? Lol

Magoroth wrote:

RexFavilla wrote:

VTL: Magoroth

Old habits die hard

Okay why did you feel the need to duplicate an RVS vote?

Rex is actually doing a decent job of goading responses out of Magoroth. the random vote with no explanation would be bad if rex wasn't the second person on it. Doing all of this does align with town incentives

anyway i skimmed my catch up so imma go back and get on that

there's a lot people fluing under the radar

and tbh... Magoroth really is driving activity. i'ts not like scum magoroth

Bullish town by way of soft and Kohai lock town

So this is what I mean by scum just letting us drift toward those wagons:

1. There's definitely some scum hading among those less active, last game proved this pretty well and it's a consistent theme

2.Opportunism has been such a theme recently that scum would like to avoid opportunism by jumping on wagons that townies started

combine these two incentives together and we have a game where it's likely Rex and Magoroth are town, and town is just misreading while mafia lets people like Helz and others take the fall in the following DPs

note: I haven't looked into Helz yet, but if we're thinking about the incentives of this game, I don't expect mafia to be involved in any of what's going on rn

i'd rather not kohai run shit

but if makes a good read all credit to him

alr i'm here

not locked in so you get lazy Mag1cman this game

I’ll give thoughts in the morning

I don’t care for either wagon and I think the mafia is just letting us go there

Still waiting for the scum team to actually enter the thread

I was gonna say Kohai felt fake bc no one who’s actually a PR waives the “I’m a pr guys!” flag that early

but then Pie conf him

RexFavilla wrote:

Mag1cman wrote:

Rex is doing the same thing he did last game. Please give me at least a blurb to read every now and then, please?

I guess. Do you think Kohai is scummy for not being able to see how town I am? Or do you think he is just bad at reading people?

I was gonna say no bc idt you’re in the category of obvious town. I appreciate you giving blurbs but that’s about it. I don’t really have any strong feelings about you.

Kohai wrote:

Casey_Risk wrote:

Thoth wrote:

I don’t think speculating about theme splits will be productive until we see at least one flip, maybe more than one. There are too many plausible ones.

I agree fwiw, theme split analysis without at least one flip rarely, if ever, benefits the town

Perhaos we could claim if we are a metal or a gas

this one’s a bad idea