One quick thought while I’m back reading.
It seems very likely that Pie came into DP2 fully expecting not to make it into NP2. With the Yakuza recruitment going off on NP1, they very likely planned a hard bus on Pie, and it’s very probable they paid excessive attention to optics so as to ensure the converted person wouldn’t seem scummy; in other words there’s a decent chance Pie would’ve tried to interact with their converted target in ways you wouldn’t expect scum to do
Unfortunately this doesn’t really help me much because he did this with both of you, he called Mag1c confirmed Town and he continued the 1v1 with Lunatic a bit. It is possible he was trying to frame Luna by deliberately ignoring his posts (shit like “Your mind is set anyways” etc)
Actually the better question is why did y'all not vote me? Obviously this question is directed at Mag1c since I think he voted before Luna
Wait did y'all decide to vote? Why?
Originally Posted by Lunatic on 04/09/2026 at 8:24 (post #1102)
Okay let's break things down a bit.
With magic, his early activity and investment was definitely his town meta. Obviously he would have been town dp1 no matter what, but you dont really see a drop off come day phase two. He maybe isn't as paranoid as I would expect of town magic, but his reads early were pretty accurate.
The biggest thing that can be used against him is his kind of buying into pies BS. Kind of hard to completely fault him or anyone for that in hindsight, even knowing pie was scum. He was claiming an investigative result and it seemed catered toward making magic town read him. Magic like me, was also pretty hard on pie dp1. I can see pie using that watcher result to garner town cred from magic. Sucking up to someone who scum reads you is something pie could do. He was doing it to me as well pretty much all of dp2, and would just say I was tunneling him whenever I wouldn't buy into his bs.
The thing with magic's role and the lie going into it about being roleblocked, I don't know. I can see what the intended strategy was, so I won't fault him for lying there since he technically didn't ever need to come clean about not being roleblocked. His "info" on mikal was pretty shoddy, I thought so from the start since a lot of it was made on presumed grammar about mikal's posting style when in actuality it was a null tell. The result trips me up with him being scum. I kind of expecting magoroth to start the day phase tunneling that, in which case I would have thought mago was scummier, but the fact that it hasn't been brought up is interesting.
I was town reading magic for that whole thing because I didn't think he would be do that as scum, I think he genuinely thought his result meant something there, and maybe got a bit tunnel minded on it. Also that's a lot of WIFOM to play into to go into a 1 v 1 death match in LYLO.
As scum he could of just thought no one would call his bluff in lylo, and he would probably be right, but at bare minimum that strategy just draws a ton of unwanted attention to himself. I don't see why he would do this as scum. He came into day phase 4 pretty paranoid sounding about being set up as a mislynch by being left alive.
So my gut tells me that magic isn't scum because I just don't see the strategy behind any of what he is doing. Magic is someone who I have a lot of respect for his scum game, especially after watching him in Ted Lasso. He is one of the most underratted scum players on the site. The whole thing with mikal really doesn't strike me as him just trying to grab a mislynch. Also I just played with magic as scum and I just don't see any blaring similarities in his play or deviances from his dp1 play.
Looking at mago, I do town read him as well, if I didn't I would have lynched him already, or would have helped pie lynch him to prove his role. With my recent though about pie maybe wanting to bus after being caught up by being "too linked" to kohai though, it is starting to make me consider the possibility that it was a bus even heavier. Pie knew he was cooked, his options were limited. Trying to gain mago town cred is probably the last play he could make. Like part of me feels like that is just way to simple to be the answer, and wants to dismiss that as pie just trying to get one more hail mary lynch off before he dies the next day, which is also in character for pie.
So the last thing I really want to talk about is the wylted kill. Why was he killed and who does that kill benefit the most?
Wylted had runs ins with both magic and mago.
Wylted had a couple of posts suggesting he thought magic was scum:
https://www.debatecraft.com/mafia/c/active-games/posts/83/from-mafia---day-4?comment_number=978
https://www.debatecraft.com/mafia/c/active-games/posts/83/from-mafia---day-4?page=35&comment_number=980
https://www.debatecraft.com/mafia/c/active-games/posts/83/from-mafia---day-4?comment_number=983
So even if I behaviorally don't think magic was scummy, there is enough to suggest he has a lot of motive to kill wylted, as he wouldn't want to be in a LYLO situation with him. The same could be said about me since mikal kept saying he thinks wylted would vote me in LYLO, but I don't think he would have actually and never saw wylted really confirm that to mikal. Magic also said wylted could have been killed to set him up as a mislynch, so that is something I am heavily willing to consider as well, because that is definitely something pie could concoct with mago.
As far as mago goes, the same could almost be said for him.
Wylted says: "If you flip innocent I am going to pursue mago anyway. Don't think your death will be in vain if you flip guilty maybe not, but an innocent flip and I won't be able to see past him"
And Mago later responds "Why me"
https://www.debatecraft.com/mafia/c/active-games/posts/83/from-mafia---day-4?comment_number=767
Which could suggest paranoia around wylted in a LYLO situation with him.
He also was pretty adverse to wylted in DP2:
"I think Wylted is scummiest, I abandon what I said ab Mac1cman. Followed by IMO Mikal for basically stating he wanted to confirm himself noe that Yakuza is dead. This is the type of fake derp he drops as scum. Ofc its also possible its a genuinr mistale, idk how Yakuza works in general."
https://www.debatecraft.com/mafia/c/active-games/posts/83/from-mafia---day-4?comment_number=597
The early adversity is also a reason he could have killed wylted thinking wylted would could have a past grudge on him, since he was also scum reading him back and they had a bit of a back and forth about it.
The WIFOM goes the same way against both players though so the idea that wylted was killed to frame someone is losing some legitimacy since a wylted kill could look bad for either of them.
I know my reply is very short, but your conclusion is basically you see us both as Town, correct? because not gonna lie that is exactly how I feel. It doesn’t feel like either of you is scum
There’s another possibility I hadn’t thought of.
I could see Pie recruiting Lunatic as a “fuck you” to him for outing him, I really could, a kind of ego trip or what not. And I distinctly remember Pie speaking completely differently with Lunatic than with Thoth, and Thoth flipped town.
I will be holding off on voting. I’ll reread D2 later. It’s possible I’m misremembering the interactions between Pie and others and I’m being unfair here.
So yeah, please don’t vote (or vote each other and save me the trouble of having to prove I’m Town)
Originally Posted by Lunatic on 03/09/2026 at 14:34 (post #1077)
Originally Posted by Magoroth on 8/30/2026 at 9:15 PM (post #726)
I mean y’all can argue all you want, I’m down to call Pie’s gambit here because it would be really funny if it blew up in his fafe and outed his partner lol
Why were you down to call this gambit if you were lying about your role? Did you think people wouldn’t call you out on it? What is the benefit to this play from a town standpoint?
I couldn’t really stop at that point and reveal I was lying, or 1) it would have awfully seemed like a convenient lie since Pie was pushing me, and 2) I wanted them to think my role was real. So they would actually be afraid of hammering me if I was ever at L-1 and thus the other scum could be outed
@Lunatic I’m extremely close to voting Mag1c. If you’re scum I guess this is GG
I think I’m leaning Mag1cman just because he seems fake as fuck today same as the previous days
Originally Posted by Mag1cman on 02/09/2026 at 19:59 (post #1066)
Originally Posted by Lunatic on 9/2/2026 at 11:44 AM (post #1065)
Did you get a result?
”lol”
That was my result. I wasn’t going to trust it even if I got something.
… I don’t think I would’ve gotten anything useful anyway. Once they learn of my role, the obvious counterplay is to flood their own scum chat with useless, or worse, misleading messages.
or to say literally nothing
I still don't understand why they or rather HE spoke in chat night 2 at all
Ok, perfect time to reveal this.
I was not entirely truthful about my role. I do in fact cause votes to become anonymous, but I do not out scum when I die. Regardless of who kills me, votes become anonymous.
If you noticed, Pie only started going after me after I claimed, probably because he realised how unlikely the role was.
I breadcrumbed this right before my initial reveal, if you look up the posts just before, the capital letters spell out DIE TO AL. In retrospect I should’ve said “REVEAL TO ALL” and then it would be more obvious, but just so you know I came prepared.
Reason I’m saying this is, Pie ONLY pushed me because he knew I was full of shit. I almost slipped a few times when I called my role fake. He pushed me for the Town cred (cause he knew it wouldn’t out me OR his partner if I died), and it gave him an excuse to push me. I think this should be a pretty strong defense for me not to be scum.
So, I will not vote. One of you has to convince me they are Town and that the other is scum.
Originally Posted by wylted on 02/09/2026 at 13:33 (post #1027)
I just want to know who mago is more willing to vote for and place my vote there
Mikal forcing us to make this choice “me or him” reminds me of my scum game, and honestly I don’t like being forced to do shit so I might just Lynch him out of principle lol
Originally Posted by wylted on 02/09/2026 at 13:32 (post #1024)
guess he meant that Town could’ve roleblocked him or something
It doesn't matter l. Who is your first and second choice for scum?
First is Mikal, I don’t have a second one yet.
I guess the most obvious choice is Mag1c here, tho one would wonder why he’s going for Mikal instead of someone else, eg you or me.
Originally Posted by Mikal on 02/09/2026 at 13:32 (post #1022)
Pie thinks you are ss bad as kohai. He'll would freeze over before he picks you when he already had kohai.
You realise. If I am scum and you are Town. You are getting snowed so hard by Pie right now that you’ll feel silly ooking back? Why are you not even considering this lol
It’s strange having to argue I could be scum but it is what it is I guess
Originally Posted by Mikal on 02/09/2026 at 13:21 (post #1015)
Again paraphrasing this
Pie thinks mago is shit. He would not pick him
Wylted and luna wanted mago - as scum i go mago
Wylted would have an easier time going mago as scum and getting a lynch there or going luna with me now instead of going to magic again
Voting patterns don't make sense.
About to drive wykted lmk where you want to start so I can park. Mago can pick between that and me. Don't want to have our vote split
Maybe he would pick me because of this exact reason tho. You realise that Pie probably thought of all this and realised if he didn’t play any mind games and ppl just went for the super obvious shit he would lose right?
Originally Posted by wylted on 02/09/2026 at 13:20 (post #1014)
Lowkey didn't even see you say you were roleblocked ever lol somehow missed that
Can you tell me exactly how him stating he is role blocked a mind game with scum when they would already know if they roleblocked him or not
I guess he meant that Town could’ve roleblocked him or something; if he didn’t know Scum had a roleblocker (which he wouldn’t), it would be a valid thought. Whether or not Mafia would pick up on it is a separate question
Originally Posted by Lunatic on 02/09/2026 at 13:13 (post #1010)
Originally Posted by Magoroth on 9/2/2026 at 3:13 AM (post #1007)
Yeah, here it is: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=14866750#p14866750
Sounds closer to this:
https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/database/mafia-roles/role/?mafiarole=Little%20Girl
Yeah this is probably where Banana got the role. I think Mag1c claimed to be a little girl IIRC
It’s probably totally worthless to ask who Pie would recruit. It’s just infinite WIFOM can’t derive any real info that way. For any question that arises, 3 more pop up.
I’ll start -
Scientist
Defense: 1
Offense: 0
Description: You are a genius hermit living on the outskirts of society. You perform all sorts of crazy experiments in your shack in the woods in hopes of discovering the secret of immortality.
Night Ability: Each night, you may create any of the following items:
a) Super-Rejuvenating Solution - Gives someone 10,000 defense value for one night. Can only craft one of these once per game; even if a role gives you extra charges, this will never have more than one charge, and it is full stop impossible for this to ever affect more than one player, ever, regardless of any other considerations.
b) Temporary Invisibility Generator - Makes a player invisible for one night and one day. They will become completely immune to all night actions, day actions, cannot vote, cannot be voted, and do not influence the voting threshold that day. In addition, they are removed from all night/day chats for the duration and can only speak to the host. One charge.
c) Quantum Entanglement Device - Entangles two players, ensuring that night actions that affect one will also affect the other. Can be used on self. One charge.
d) Neural Gas - Sprays neural gas at a player’s house. All targets there will be roleblocked, but will receive fake randomised feedback as though their abilities succeeded. One charge.
The role list is as follows:
Town/Mafia/3p Any
Repeat to infinity.
Anyone may submit roles to this setup. The only rules are:
a) All roles should be able to work with any alignment.
b) Don’t submit anything you wouldn’t want used on yourself.
At the start of the game I randomly assign roles to players from this list. Every night people can choose to “reroll” instead of taking a night action; at the end of the night they will be given a different, random role from this list.
Owing to the difficulty of making an order of operations for this shit, the OoO will be randomised.
Basics
Town - Has majority at game start, typical shit
Mafia - Has a factional night kill along with their own abilities
3p - Can be Serial Killer, Survivor or Executioner
Yeah, here it is: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=14866750#p14866750
For what it's worth, I have heard of Mag1c’s role before, but I’ve never been in a game with it myself. I think it’s called an Eavesdropper.
I think it’s foolhardy to clear me because I wouldn’t be recruited. I honestly agree that I would never recruit myself, but 1) I am not scum and have my own perspective here, which isn’t the same as a scum perspective, 2) they have to play mind games with this Yakuza crap, and 3) I have two people saying I can’t be scum because I wouldn’t be recruited. Assume I’m scum for a second, this means the other two people are Town and will (probably) never vote me. With a mislynch on Luna I would basically be guaranteed to win, so the gambit on Pie’s end would've worked wonders.
I might be tempted to slap a vote on Mikal for this.
I have other thoughts. I do kind of like Mag1c’s post and analysis, and I like the idea that he’’s trying to narrow down teams and saying which teams are unlikely and which are probable (he’s been doing this since D2). On the other hand, his claim isn’t a direct CC to Mikal and if he’s scum he could easily argue “shitz my bad guys guess I was wrong about who it was on NP2”.
Originally Posted by Lunatic on 02/09/2026 at 2:03 (post #952)
Originally Posted by wylted on 9/1/2026 at 5:22 PM (post #945)
Lunatic what are your thoughts?
I think magics role is real at the very least, could have been recruited though. I am not sure I am 100% on board with the logic of mikal being confirmed scum based on the words "ml" and a double space, however I do think mikal behaviorally is at least setting off some alarms. The fact that that message in magics pm clearly states that they need two mislynches to win, and mikal seems to have 2 people lined up for a lynch, exactly me and magic, and doesn't seem to consider you or mago options at all seems like TMI. I don't see how he could say that you guys are innocent beyond a shadow of a doubt when literally anyone could have been recruited. The fact that he is hard set on me and magic being scum makes it look like he is setting us up as both lynches. And he's throwing his weight around confidently, expecting you both to wagon him saying things like "I know wylted will vote with me" type shit just seems like is trying to manipulate you.
If I was leaning a direction it would be mikal, but I don't want to dismiss the possibility both him and magic are town here. I am literally considering everyone. I'll have more extensive thoughts when I get to work tonight.
"mikal seems to have 2 people lined up for a lynch, exactly me and magic, and doesn't seem to consider you or mago options at all seems like TMI. I don't see how he could say that you guys are innocent beyond a shadow of a doubt when literally anyone could have been recruited. The fact that he is hard set on me and magic being scum makes it look like he is setting us up as both lynches. And he's throwing his weight around confidently, expecting you both to wagon him saying things like "I know wylted will vote with me" type shit just seems like is trying to manipulate you."
I honestly thought so too. I didn’t like how Mikal was urging us to quick hammer right away. I think that’s in Mikal’s scum meta too
Only 1 of us is scum (presumably). I know I’m not scum, so that just means it’s one of y’all. Question is who lol
Was nobody role blocked or redirected?
I asked Banana if a role like Mikal’s could be used by the person on themself 1) and if it’s still active at MyLo/LyLo.
Speaking of MyLo/LyLo, does Banana usually announce this? I don’t think we have a Tailor considering Lunatic claimed to have been role blocked--
Actually, I just had a thought. Why did Pie not use a Lawyer on himself?