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RexFavilla

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RexFavilla

I think Luna is mostly pissed about my tongue-in-cheek comment about giving Mikal MVP but I do want to respond to some of the balance criticisms.


To defend the antirecruit: it was mostly nullified in DP1. The scum team originally wanted to recruit Mikal but picked up on him softing that he was unrecruitable. The game was structured in such a way that one of the unrecruitable players would have to out themselves by broaching the topic of recruitment - in this game, that was Mikal. Then Airmax flat-out outed themselves as unrecruitable. Then Kohai laid down enough info over the DP that scum were able to correctly guess his character, which they would never recruit because him dying helped them immensely. Whiteflame 1.0 also outed himself DP1. The only remaining wildcard at this point was Pie, so even if scum randomly recruited among the remaining pool of players NP1 (Pie, Wryly, Wylted, Shining, Whiteflame 2.0, Vader) they had an 83% chance of hitting a recruitable player. By the end of DP2, with Pie claiming, that chance rose to 100%. This is what I meant when I said in the last game's endgame that anticlaim would be built into the structure of the game. I actually do not fault them for foregoing the recruit NP1, I probably would have done the same. But making that decision necessitated that they play DP2 as cautiously as possible and to above all else avoid Thoth getting lynched. They did the exact opposite of that.


For the three protective roles, the 1x Doc by itself should have forewarned you of that. Scum knew that Wylted wasn't lying about his Poisoner role because they knew that he was town. They had WF's TP vig flip. They knew that they had 1x, potentially 2x strongman shots. Shining's card makes no mention of protecting against poison or dayvig shots, something that both Whiteflame and Wylted had mentioned already at that point. The game would be laughably unbalanced with just a 1x Doc. To counterclaim Supa was a ballsy but shortsighted move, because it meant as soon as he died you would be on the chopping block.

RexFavilla
It is? Oops lol. I thought that was only Miller Gravedigger and PGO.

It's not, you were Loved (Popular) not Beloved.

RexFavilla
they were so invested in Mikal's lore mastery that they bought his bullshit about this being a complicated issue


False af. I commented multiple times that mikal was probably wrong in much of his analysis, both in game and the discord and can take screenshots to prove this. Why are you lying? you salty because you made bad modding decisions? Don't lie because of it lol.


This is what Thoth told me in a separate PM. Hence 'one of the scum team'. Take it up with him, but he expressed reticence about which characters he could have recruited, and I mentioned the list of Stars of Destiny he could have used. He then said that he didn't think that would have been reliable because of what Mikal said, and I did recall you suggesting that you weren't sure who was recruitable either.

RexFavilla

Also scum were very confused about who to recruit while I thought it was quite simple because most wikis have a list of the 107 Stars of Destiny, who are all recruitable characters. However, one of the scum team have informed me that they were afraid to use it because they were so invested in Mikal's lore mastery that they bought his bullshit about this being a complicated issue that you couldn't understand unless you played the game. So for so frazzling the scum team I think he and Pie might deserve joint MVPs lol.

RexFavilla

Hidden Hinge Events:

So to 'rebalance' this swingy game in the event that certain events happened roles would change and altar. There were three such events:


Teo McDohl dying - since this would happen if they were triggered with the recruit it would make the surviving scum (Tir) much stronger to compensate, as happened in the game when the Souleater Rune fed on his father's death. It would also act as built-in anticlaim, because if scum could figure out who Teo was they could secure a huge buff by NKing him. This would also cause Sonya to lose her popular and gain a 1x Gladiator (choose a player in the DP - you and your target are now the only possible lynch targets for this DP) to reflect her dark, vengeful turn after Teo's death.


The recruit going off: This would remove Leon's hated role, removing the handicap on the town cop who would now have two targets to find instead of one (Mathiu was ascetic and so immune to cop investigations).


The third was Yuber's kill going off, which would secure him extra usages. Yuber was a counterbalance on town, as he would basically be hunting for town power roles to take out anonymously and untraceably throughout the game as scum likely wouldn't claim Tir. The balances to this were the scum roleblock that persisted through the DP, Kasim's day/night bodyguard, and especially Barbarossa's permanent commuter role.

RexFavilla

Result: Town Victory (Mafia Forfeit)


Actions:

DP1: Whiteflame shoots Magic, Town lynches Whiteflame.

First DP was wild. Though Luna was scum here I agree with his reasoning. The town basically took a TP who offered to work with them and offered to use his 1x dayvig in place of the lynch to kill whomever town decided to lynch and screamed at him that they would never trust him and would kill him anyway. Kind of like seeing that the twitchy kid brought and AR to school and jeering at him that he's a loser. The end result is that he panicked, capped the cop at Mikal's direction, and then got lynched. I do feel bad because, due to Ultra's inactivity (his character was neutral) and Magic's misunderstanding of his own character (Leon was retired and more a freelance guy, not a dedicated Scarlet Moon guy), the neutral character fakeclaim that I gave him came off as super scummy because Mikal was operating off a Scarlet Moon=town assumption.


NP1: Shining and Supa both protect Mikal. Lunatic janitors Shining. Mikal redirects Luna to himself. Wylted poisons Shining. Thoth correctly guesses Kohai's character and rolecops him. Whiteflame 2.0 strengthens Lunatic.

A very wild NP, just goes to show that simulations often don't live up to reality. The NK would have been successfully redirected to Mikal and then blocked had Whiteflame not strengthened Lunatic, causing the redirect to fail. The end result was a jannied doc and a very confused town - though if the next DP hadn't been so hectic, I feel like Whiteflame saying that he strengthened Luna might have caused Mikal to put one and two together. I'd say Wylted wasted his Poisoner but he did pick a good target who was inactive, unlikely to be protected, and whom he saw as scummy, it wasn't really his fault that he couldn't forsee that scum had a janitor and would be looking for similar qualities in a target.


DP 2: Thoth is lynched

So this was basically scum snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. The cop was dead, the 1x doc was janitored, they knew who Teo McDohl was, and had a good idea of who to safely target with their recruit due to the mass claim. All they needed to do was ensure that Thoth could survive one more DP and fire off the recruit and then pick off players within the town block with NKs. They would have two juggernaut kills and one more janitor to deal with the protective roles or a roleblock if they wanted to use that instead. Instead, Thoth made the absolutely baffling decision to claim Leprechaun, something I knew would go over like a lead balloon as soon as he mentioned it. Continuing to go through with it as the DP went on just seemed more and more suicidal, it was like a slow-moving trainwreck. The ascetic claim was also unnecessary, and I feel like it just added another dash of unbelievability. People targeting you and getting told that their role failed could be used to fuel speculation about a roleblocker or some other mechanic to distract town.


Thoth's main mistake was volunteering information like a claim out of the blue when it's not a policy claim and nobody asked for it. I don't think this is good to do as scum or town. It is an especially bad thing to do as scum when you have a role which is absolutely critical to your team winning and you need to survive the DP to fire it off. But I feel like Luna also made a mistake here that led to him eventually seeing no way out and forfeiting. He had a janitored flip of a 1x doc and claimed full doc. People rightly pointed out that a BG and 1x jailer and full doc was too many protective roles, and they would be right to think this. Even with just a 1x doc it was very protection-heavy to counteract the possible bad ramifications of the dayvig and poisoner both killing town. A 1x doc claim also would have allowed him to explain why scum hadn't killed him yet, whereas a full doc still being alive would become more and more suspicious as the game moved on.


MVP:

Pie for doggedly pushing the Thoth lynch and securing it which basically clinched the game for town. He edged out Mikal because Mikal's idea to lynch the next day would have allowed Thoth to get off his recruit and keep scum in the game. His fake claim as town was also a good one as it allowed him to push the Thoth lynch more effectively while also possibly baiting scum into wasting the NK on him once he was seen as cofirmed.


Honorable mentions:

Vader for calling out the scum team in his fit of omgus rage. This is the second game in a row he's done this, I'm starting to think it's a rage-activated superpower.

Mikal for using lore to solve so much of the game, which is a large part of what backed Luna into a corner and made him throw in the towel. Also for redirecting the NK NP1.

Wryly for playing very well and contributing despite being a noob, and also for doing great lore research, often having accurate lore-based inputs despite being more of a Legend of Dragoon player (another of my favorite PS1 RPGs btw)

RexFavilla

Thoth has been lynched!


He was guilty!


Get your night actions in by 2:00 PM tomorrow!



Thoth - 6/6 Vader, Pie, Luna, Wylted, Kohai, Mikal


Pie - 1/6 Thoth


RexFavilla

Suikoden Mafia - Second DP

72 Hours - DP Ends 9 PM Thursday Night


NPs are 24 Hours.



Shining has died in the night! He vanished, as if he never existed.


Flips so far:


Living Players:

1. Pie

2. Mikal

3. Lunatic

4. Vader

5. Victor/Wylted

6. Airmax

7. Thoth

8. Kohai

9. Wryly

10. WF(Ultra)


With ten players alive, it takes six votes to lynch.

RexFavilla

Whiteflame was lynched


He was kinda guilty


Kohai, Whiteflame, Pie, Wylted, Vader, Mikal, Shining



Please get night actions in by 7 PM tomorrow, 24 hours from now.

RexFavilla

I will be awol most of tomorrow and wouldn't be starting the DP till the later night anyway so hammer time doesn't really matter.

RexFavilla

A dark, malefic aura chokes the battlefield. Your hair stands on end. Something is not right.


Magic is dead. He was innocent.


Flip: Hated/Cop Leon Silverberg


Will post full flip tonight when I get home.

RexFavilla

Suikoden Mafia - First DP

72 Hours - DP Ends 11 PM Sunday Night

NPs are 24 Hours.



There is no hard anticlaim mechanic, but revealing information about your character will allow scum to use their roles to much greater effect. Certain roles and alignments may be subject to change based on certain actions taking place. PM me any questions.


Mafia are provided with some information on fake claims.


Rules:

  1. Keep discussions in the official thread
  2. Be as bitchy as you want, I don't give a fuck
  3. Don't copy-paste PMs, including the pretty pictures which I gave you all
  4. Don't post when dead
  5. Don't edit or delete posts
  6. No thumbs-up shenanigans once you're dead
  7. You can talk about role PM formatting and whatnot as much as you want but I love to deliberately sabotage that so do it at your own risk
  8. No cryptography/cipher crap
  9. Just don't piss me off I'm a pretty chill guy but don't try and break the game in some cute new way that goes against the spirit of the game.


Living Players:

1. Pie

2. Mikal

3. Shining

4. Lunatic

5. Vader

6. Magic

7. Victor/Wylted

8. Airmax

9. Thoth

10. Whiteflame

11. Kohai

12. Wryly

13. Ultra

RexFavilla

1. Pie

2. Mikal

3. Shining

4. Lunatic

5. Vader

6. Magic

7. Victor/Wylted

8. Airmax

9. Thoth

10. Whiteflame

11. Kohai

12. Wryly

13.


In lieu of the last player, I will rand the game and send out role PMs tonight. Once we get the last player I will then send them their role PM (the last remaining slot) and create scum chat. Hoping for the game to start Friday at 7, if not then over the weekend.


RexFavilla

Need 1 more player. Would be hard to rebalance the game at this point, waiting to hear back from several leads. I did reach out to several people to make sure I had enough, unfortunately I didn't anticipate Kohai's game ending so quickly so I was aiming for an early October start date.

RexFavilla

1. Pie

2. Mikal

3. Shinning

4. Lunatic

5. Vader

6. Magic

7. Victor

8. Airmax

9. Thoth

10. Whiteflame

11.

12.

13.


Sub/Extra

Kohai

Wryly

RexFavilla

1. Pie

2. Mikal

3. Shinning

4. Lunatic

5. Vader

6. Magic

7. Victor

8. Airmax

9.

10.

11.

12.

13.


Sub/Extra

Kohai

Wryly


Maybe

Whiteflame