RexFavilla

VTL Whiteflame

Kind of academic at this point, but I'd use the 'free' no lynch at a later point when we actually have information to deliberate during the DP. Now we're just ensuring a DP2 which will be just as sterile and unproductive as this one, as there will be no wagon to analyze and no results to analyze because people are going to avoid claiming unless they have a guilty on someone or some other damning results (unlikely).

At this point, the only way this would happen (since Wylted's been MIA) is with a blind lynch, and as I've already said, I'm opposed to that. Don't think you're going to rally the support you'd need to get this lynch off before the DP ends, but I don't see value in blind lynching an inactive player.

Good to know, next time I'm scum I'll just never post and people will apparently never lynch me as long as I also don't claim.

Ok does anyone want me to claim or not. Cause I can. But I don't need to if you don't wanna

No, don't claim.

Unvote

VTL Wylted

We're not going to be able to rely on claims for all our analysis this game. We need something else, and that means flips and wagons to talk about next DP, or we'll just get into the same rut next DP. I say we lynch someone today. I'm fine with a Wylted lynch, as he's been very inactive and was pushing claims.

So mote it be.

You've been participating, so I'll set aside my earlier reason for seeking a claim. That being said, you seem averse to any claims at this point. I understand wanting to avoid any anti-claim mechanics and just pick up behavioral reads, but a) I'm seeking all of one claim this DP, which I doubt will wreak havoc if we get it, and b) we're not going to blind lynch regardless, so unless we're just committing to a VTNL, we're very likely to get at least one claim this DP.

Problem with that is they'll think they're going to be lynched, panic, and unless they're a miller or a beloved princess or a vanilla they'll claim and we'll go 'oh they claimed a good role, need to pick a new target just in case' and then the same thing will happen and we'll end up with either a no-lynch or a bunch of claims out there. I agree with RT to just lynch an inactive. Because unless we're going to lynch McDonalds no matter what he claims it's not like asking him for a claim will solve the lynch target problem.

Super because he’s dogshit at fake claiming

Who is Super?

Well alternatively we could just make small talk till the dp ends. How's your life going?

Good. Yours?

Fishing for claims DP1 is a bizarre meta that this site has developed that I don't like to begin with. Back in the day you only did it if someone made a very egregious possible scum slip and you wanted to pin them down. It's especially wild to pursue it when the mod has explicitly warned against claiming. The point of DP 1 is to generate speculation and conversation that can be analyzed in retrospect.

Why are you town?

I imagine scum have some kind of ability that is more effective if they know the target's claim.

There may or may not be mechanics in play which punish claiming characters and/or roles, so claim at your own risk!

Sussing every person who is pushing claims when the OP says that there could be mechanics in play that punish claiming. Literally nobody should be claiming DP1.

Don't kill me =(

VTL RT

For test. I will be pretty inactive till Tuesday, but will try to hop on in brief spurts.

Ok, and what of all the NKs scum could get?

Casey being lynched tomorrow, the likely outcome, would have lead to us having several mislynches.

Or are you talking about the game being scumsided/townsided? I dunno, I feel like it's hard to judge because all the information was so haywire. It was swingy for sure.

Even then, there was still play left- you were still widely townread and convincing Rex to stay with his scumread on Earth wouldn't have been too hard. He had a sus on Ragnar as well.

Nah Pie is right. My entire scum read on Earth was predicated on him and WF maybe being a team. Once we saw the Supa flip in the next DP it would have town confirmed WF to me and my Earth read would have evaporated. We probably would have ended up lynching Casey that DP and if Pie went hard defending her it would have chipped away at his town cred. It would have been very tough for him to pull it off.

Also, when did flips stop being done at the end of the DP? I remember always getting either a 'they were guilty!' or 'they were innocent!' after the hammer. If that de rigeur now, or just a Mikal thing?

Must have been that redirect he used NP2.

You guys didn't see most of Pie's scum play. He had me convinced from NP2 that Casey was sus so when he came up with a plan to track her to POE the NK I kind of shrugged and did it because my town read on WF was solidified at that point anyway, which improved my reads of Earth and to a lesser extend Ragnar, and Casey was one of my top other scum reads.

Giving Earth 2 abilities based on OoT items and making him the OG Zelda was also kind of a dick move Mikal.

/in

What was your verbatim reaction to rolling Lone Wolf for your first game on DC?

To expound on it a bit more, I kept thinking at multiple times during this game that I felt like I was playing as scum because of the mason chat. Putting out false reads to gauge reactions, lying about who I scum read to try and manipulate night actions. I feel like it almost eliminated a lot of the behavioral reads that I've come to rely upon because they're predicated on an information asymmetry between town and scum, but that information asymmetry became much more universal. It really does completely change the game and how you 'feel out' other people for having town motivation.

In a normal game, your analysis has to be public and opened to scrutiny, you don't have an option for private analysis. Removing a large amount of the town game from public review really does change everything about how the game feels and how you approach it.

Damn, Pie had me completely bamboozled. Well-played. I assumed if he was scum he would carry out the NK NP1 after confirming a passive role. I'm starting to think that the mason chats might have been somewhat of a liability to town for all the benefit they offered when it came to coordinating night actions. There was so much going on between Whiteflame, Ragnar, Earth, and Mharman that I wasn't privy to that to me it just looked like they were all constantly lying and I had a hard time trusting any of them. I especially mistrusted the fact that Ragnar didn't level with his role at the beginning of the last DP and that probably would have lead me to continue to scum read him even if Pie hadn't manipulated me into visiting Casey.

But overall, Pie played a really fantastic scum game.

At this point I'm going to go with an RT lynch (again). On the off chance that he is telling the truth the flip will confirm that if there are only two scum. If not, GG.

VTL RT

Jesus Christ I can see why Supa wanted to replace out if that's the case. I genuinely feel bad for him, he hates being scum to begin with. Making him do it without a group chat is just cruel.

But it does make sense why his behavioral scumhunting felt real to me - there's no information asymmetry if he's a lone wolf. He could have stayed off the RT wagon because he thought he was scum and didn't want to lynch a teammate.

And then, just to take this hypothetical a step further mind you, he went ahead and just stated outright to that other person in the Mason chat that he was the Lone Wolf in the hopes that that other person was secretly scum only to be told that he had just outed himself fully to a town player.

I can't figure out what a lone wolf is. One site says a mafia member who will only win if they are the last surviving mafia member, which doesn't make sense in your scenario. Another says it's a TP with an NK like a serial killer, which would have resulted in the game ending at this point imo.

What do you mean by the term?

NP1 - Earth town

NP2 - Whiteflame scum

NP3 - Pie town!

I find this all a bit mystifying if you're town. Why not push a WF lynch?

Your behavior makes zero sense as TP or scum. As town it seems like it's a crazy risk if you're trying to get lynched to be vindicated by the flip. If there are three scum we're fucked even if a flip would vindicate you.

First off, he revealed it to me in DP2, he revealed it publicly in DP4. He revealed the delayed Tracker result after NP2, so yes, he necessarily did reveal the injury mechanic beforehand.

Second, when did I say that was the main reason I was townreading him?

This was an assumption on my part - I'd imagine that you'd received claims from both him and Mharman and independently linked them up as referencing/confirming one another. His behavioral reads to me have been super scummy and imo that always trumps role analysis.

I disagree that it's affiliation neutral. Scum Earth wouldn't have had reason to reveal this to me in a PM well before learning of Mharman's roles, he would have had much more reason to use such a role and keep its existence as part of his roles secret. Still, all that is some amount of WIFOM, so even if I think it would be a very strange move for scum Earth to make,

Injuring is a weird mechanic, I think it's kind of presupposes a way to fix the injured player, similarly to poisoning usually indicating a poison healer, like in the last game he played. So, I think it's fairly simple to realize that revealing that snippet of information might cause someone like you who has access to all the roles to put one and two together and think that it confirms him to some degree. Or he might be a scum JOAT with a rolecop and a injure-POG ability and only saw fit to lie about the rolecop to discourage investigative roles targeting him. Mharman's oneshot seems like something the mod would add to balance a scum ability like that, which might have made the game way too swingy if he timed its use correctly.

I wasn't strongly townreading him based on that claim. At the time, I was townreading him based on his being the only player with an investigative role claim (this was before you had claimed). The main reason I'm still townreading him is that his results align with your stated actions, both for what he did and what you did. Maybe he did big brain this, but I don't see a world in which he doesn't kill you as scum following the revelation that you're the Tracker, and that's pretty much the only way your story of him RCing you NP2 makes sense.

I wasn't expecting to be NK'd because I imagine that scum saw me as a great ML target due to coming out guns blazing against RT in DP2 and leading a disastrous mislynch. The only point at which I was taken off the table as a ML target was in this DP, when my tracker results lined up with other people's actions and confirmed my role. If I had chosen other targets I still could have had my role challenged and been a possible ML. Also, it's possible that scum had some insider knowledge about Mharman's night actions and saw the perfect opportunity to take him out.

I'm not saying it's impossible that he's scum, but I have several reasons to disbelieve it. As for behavior, this is far from the first time I've seen him produce some strange reads and been weird about lynch wagons as town, so that's not much of a factor in my perception of him. The only truly strange thing about him is the character claim, since you and Pie are right that his roles don't line up with the release date. I'm struggling to determine whether that's scummy or an odd choice on the part of the mods.

Mikal is a fairly experience mod. I would honestly be shocked and consider it bastard modding if he had built such a complete incongruence in theme and the workings of roles into the game. Everyone else is a specific game - Earth's claim screams that he locked himself into a soft claim via decade in DP1 but wanted to claim a role that didn't fit the actual game which he was claiming. I ran into this same problem as scum last game where Banana was locked into a consumable item claim and I couldn't find any items that fit both the theme and the role which we wanted to fakeclaim. We decided against yoloing it; it's my suspicion that Earth made the opposite decision.

Yeah overall my feel so far is to lynch between Ragnar and Earth. The two mislynch wagons for reference:

DP 1:

David 1/6 - Skep 

Icon 6/6 - Pie, Ragnar, Casey, Mharm , Luna, david

stop posting. Icon was lynched. Result will be posted next dayphase. Get your actions in

if you aren’t in a mason pm, it is now to late

DP 2:

--> @Mikal

Unofficial Vote Count:

RationalTheist- 5/5- RF, iLikePie5, shining, ragnar, whiteflame

Casey- 1/5- Mharman

Pie - 1/5 - Supa

Rex - 1/5 - RT

Mike I double checked it and pretty sure this is the correct vote count. I'll let you make it official.

First things first, I just realized I was wrong about Casey not being on the DP1 wagon. I reread the DP and realized I had searched my iso for Icon's name but she had typed 'VTL Anonymous'. My bad. But it appears that she had voted for a claim and was one of the first people to vote, and just left her vote there up until the early hammer which people didn't really expect. So probably one of the least sus ways to be on a wagon, and the DP 2 wagon was more of a 'must-have' lynch for scum anyway. Ragnar is on both and shining is on the DP 2 wagon. I've eliminated dead players and my hard town reads by striking through the names.

I'd be happy today lynching between Ragnar and Earth so far, but that might change after I do Ragnar's iso.

DP 1:

Hi all

At work today but boss isn’t in so maybe can get some activity in

My game is from the 70s

Alright I'm around post 50ish and that 16th century game is kind of out there lol. Definitely think we should get a claim from them not totally willing to write it off just yet.

Not a huge fan of the skeptism that Mharman has going into this with suggesting 3P's and other stuff. Almost seems like he's forcing a lynch on someone and forcing pressure.

Seems vaguely town, not much to go on. But not on mislynch wagon, actually pushed back on it a bit.

DP 2:

Hello everyone. Catching up at the moment to the DP.

Sorry for my lack of activity, week has been a lot busier than expected and with the lack of true mobile compatibility, checking in at work is a bit more difficult

Tbh I don't think you are town locked at all and I honestly think you are more scummy at this point. I think you likely just baited a new player into claiming survivor to out himself. I also felt you were way to eager to push this DP than I've normally seen. If anything this makes you even more scummy fmpov

Also going to mechanic SOP that I did not choose anyone. I didn't realize that you had to choose before Dp1 ended. I probably would've chosen Pie if I would've looking back at DP but right now I am in a PM with Whiteflame at the moment. I've given him my thoughts on some of the players as well after skimming

I have my skeptism on RT at the moment. I think that jumping the gun on a lynch within a full day is a bit opportunistic fmpov. It also doesn't help that Luna was killed as well. I don't know how that mechanically works because in all honesty I think it's inherent nature to town read your mason unless you come off as genuinely dishonest

But also in a game like this, I really don't think that it would've been optimal to kill Luna. The FoS is obviously on RT for the quickhammer on Icon with a day left. You would likely want to leave Luna alive as even he would likely agree that's a bad mechanic and I don't think he would've done that even as scum. So the obvious choice as scum to frame him a bit so it's a sub optimal play. Plus is RT killing the only person that can potentially give town cred???

Idk I think that hammer is sus af but at the same time I just don't think RT would kill their mason like that

I do not love this claim at all

I'm usually really good at spotting Barney as scum but for some reason my radar is a bit off. I have some FoS because I feel like a decent amount of posts have been a bit fluffy but I also know he sometimes tends to makes jokes about himself being scum when he's town a lot of the time. It's kind of a weird pattern. He usually tends to hide back and make fluff minimal reads as scum.

Right now my reads are as follows

Whiteflame - slight town. I feel like his insights he has given me feel genuine and I don't think there is a reason he'd be lying about anything he has told me. He came off as genuine IMO

Ragnar - Slight town. I think his behavior is pretty remiss of his town behavior. Witty and aluding to being scum by making jokes but not actually scum

RT - I don't love RT's hammer within 24hrs and that honestly pings my FOS, but again I can't get over the NK on him though. It just doesn't make any real sense on why he would kill the only person that could validate his town cred. There are a few options but that hammer and aggressiveness stir me an FoS. I also don't love the claim

Mharman - I dislike Mharman. Whiteflame and I disagree with this but Mharman's initial reaction to saying he's town locked is not just incorrect, but really scummy and honestly nothing like I've seen him as town. Usually he's analytical and focused on catching scum but he seems off

Pie - slight town. I just think his questions asking mods live kind feels town. When scum he usually doesn't do this and just spam pings the host. I feel like it's subtle but it's enough for me to slightly town read.

Everyone else is null at this point

It's also a case of I really don't have that much substance either. Feel like I'm nitpicking behaviors but with DP2 and really no deviations, I am bit reclusive to really hard town read someone

you were never town locked to start and you justifying yourself that you are town locked is inherently scummy considering the flip

you clearly baited a new person that didn’t know what they were doing. You were the first to suggest that there was some type of 3p in the game to cause him to fake out

theres 2 reasons

this is a new player that probably had no idea what a survivor is on a site that just started mafia. I don’t think you were banking on that. I think you tried to pressure him so much that he made a mistake and hence your 3P take

this is an ineffective strategy. It was only ever done once by WaterPhoenix and hasn’t reoccurred with new players. That is honestly has such little logic besides you as scum putting pressure on a new player to force them to make a mistake, which is even more scummier

again, but when you suggest something that he may not be fully aware of as a first timer, you don’t think he will be slightly lost or confused? You jumped to a conclusion on him way before he even outted. That’s not scum hunting that’s targeting a new player, inherently scummy

i can’t quote you for some reason about the mechanic but in the ideal world then yes, you are right about the survivor but at the same time then you were not the one that then strongly pushed for his lynch. You pretty much backed off his lynch and not to mention, he was probably the target with or without your vote. This is just a way for you to generate town cred

That doesn’t lock you as town though. There’s nothing locking about that since there are so many possibilities. Town lock would be a cop getting a guilty and the turn is guilty. This is not a town lock. You baited a new player that didn’t know what he was doing to draw a mislynch

I’m not sure what Pie is at so I want to wait for a vote count

I think Pie is at 2 at the moment…

So VTL Pie to claim test

Anyways back to work

So with Pie being a popular I honestly have him in a strong town read. I already had a town read on him to start and I feel like this made it more likely. Also I know Airmax is a huge Tetris head and since Airmax is a lead develop I am almost certain there is something there about Airmax's favorite game. So I honestly buy that he is likely town at this point

Only reason I am not pushing hard on Mharman is because of conversations with WF

This is literally the second time he wants to direct a scumread on someone to imply 3P. This hard third party push and the lack of cohesive thought process with incorrect town confirmation is so scummy that if it wasn't for whiteflame and I's conversations I would find it extremely hard to not want to push for him to be executed

Definetly WIFOM but I'm also going on information that I know too. But with town cred as well I just think that there is an implicit bias to trust your mason partner and I don't really feel like if Luna had some insane power he would've risked that "confirmation" Luna would've targetted him. But this is deffo WIFOM and hypotheticals

Most of my whiteflame conversations came Sunday when the DP closed. Whiteflame can confirm and I literally thought that the DP was still going on at this point and was posting so this proves quite literally nothing. I still engage in conversations with whiteflame but my obvious focus is on this thread

Around page 8-9 at the moment so no not caught up

So he is pushing me and then...wants to vote Casey??? What's going on there. If he has a behavioral scum read shouldn't he target the behavior scum? Let me keep reading though to see if there's a valid reason

I intended on full claiming to whiteflame after this NP. I have a very legitamate reason for doing so and whiteflame can confirm this

Rereading Casey's ISO from Mharman

What about that post from Casey made you think it was so bad that it swapped your entire read? There are some things that are debatable but in all honestly it's not that damning

Tbh DP 2 makes me really townread Supa/RT for two reasons. The first is that he was not on the mislynch wagon and was actually the most outspoken about arguing against it. The second is that he was sussing Mharman, which I was also doing privately and in my PM with Pie, which is why I ultimately tracked him NP 3. Both strike me as Town, especially with Mharman swinging his dick around at the end of the DP demanding claims. I feel like scum Supa would be scared off a bit and would disengage but he did the opposite.

Going to do Supa/RT now then take a break and do Ragnar tonight.

DP 2, going to break this down post by post:

I am Donkey Kong, one of the first ever video games to have a 'damsel in distress' plot. Donkey Kong kidnaps Pauline, so Mario has to rescue her. Therefore, I can 'kidnap' someone at night, blocking actions used on them or by them. Though it's only a 2x role. So basically a 2x Alien.

NP1 I waived. I had practically no reads. My only real townread was Ragnar, and he had already indicated that he had a PR of some sort in our Mason chat, so I didn't want to interfere with that, and I figured that using my role on anyone else would probably hurt the town.

NP2, my first instinct was to use my ability on Rex since I sussed him, but Pie told me he trusted Rex based on his role, and I wanted to give that a chance to play out. Ragnar suggested that I use my ability on him and he would waive. However, I said that I was going to target Pie instead. My thinking was that if he was town, he was a likely NK target since he was pretty widely townread, plus he didn't have a night action anyway, so there was no downside to targeting him. However, I ended up swapping back to Ragnar at the last minute, though without telling him. Something about him telling me to target him when he had such a useful role felt odd to me. Plus, the more I thought about it, the justification for his role felt weak to me. Pikachu has electric powers, and therefore Lightning Rod. Like, I understood it, but it felt a lot less straightforward than every other justification I had heard up to that point. So I switched to Ragnar on a hunch and ended up getting roleblocked. NP3 I targeted him again and was RB'ed a second time. Also worth noting that he suggested that I waive on NP3. So obviously, I'm very sus of Ragnar now.

The claim and night actions seem to be the crux of why people are scum reading Casey. If she was scum, the reason to make that fakeclaim would be to excuse roleblocking actions by pretending she was protecting someone. Using it on Ragnar twice makes no sense as scum if he had lied and told you that he had a fairly useless role (basically a bodyguard that also fucks up investigative roles, so less utility.) The only situation in which it makes sense is if you're trying to kill a protected player, and Ragnar disclosed his 'fake' target to Casey twice iirc (whiteflame) and Whiteflame didn't end up dead. If anything, this should have been a way for scum to realize that they should focus the roleblocker elsewhere, but Casey continued to roleblock/protect Ragnar.

The other thing is the this is a he-said she-said situation, and honestly I believe Casey here. The main reason is that Ragnar flat-out lied for most of this DP. Going by his last post, he's expended all of his 1x JOAT abilities so there was no reason for him to not put everything on the table at the beginning of this DP - he is essentially vanilla here. Instead he continued to lie about the lightning rod. Going from what Pie has said about Casey, she has remained consistent from the get-go. I am hearing the disembodied voice of Drafterman whispering in my ear: 'LYNCH ALL LIARS'.

So, Casey, what I really want is for you to make your own town case for me, because you've been really quiet this DP. I also want a complete list of reads/justifications for you - we have enough time since the DP has been extended now.

Casey DP2 iso:

I don't understand how this makes you a townlock?

This is true, I did choose Ragnar.

Out of curiosity, what makes you TR Whiteflame?

Wow, been a quiet game so far. I was expecting to have to a bit to catch up on, but there hasn't been much, huh?

I don't like RT's claim. Beloved Princess is inherently a scummy claim. It's like Super Saint in that deflects lynches while the variant also provides a convenient excuse for staying alive late in the game. Though I will grant that it does seem trendy on DART/DC right now. However, in terms of behavior, I'm still not crazy about RT. The sudden hammer surprised me, idk why Luna would tell him to do that, and he's dead now so we just have to take him at his word for that.

Still kinda busy, will share more thoughts in a bit.

Responding to this now - fair point, but I think it became pretty obvious pretty quickly that Anonymous was probably going to be the DP1 lynch yesterday, and I think it was probably solvable that he was either lying for some strange reason or just completely misunderstanding this game when he said he was from the 16th century. It was so far outside of what everyone else was claiming, and I don't think any game from that long ago can really be considered 'retro' per se. Like at that point, it's older than retro, it's just old.

That being said, I will say that that Survivor question was more likely to come from town you than scum you, so you're not in my scum radar anymore for the time being.

Also I stopped scumreading you after you said you were doing a reaction test with your vote on Rex. It fit with your playstyle and I was willing to believe you were genuine about that. I meant to say that DP1 but I forgot to mention it.

I don't make anything of Rex reading RT's typo literally, but this does actually raise a good point that I was actually thinking about even before you posted this: even if RT was a bog-standard Beloved Princess, why would that mean immediately lynching him? It doesn't make sense. It's like using the logic of "this player is either scum or town, that's two options, so we have a 50/50 shot of hitting scum if we lynch them" but completely unironically. Not to mention that if there's a doctor in the game, protecting the Princess only makes sense, and there probably is some kind of protective role in the game. So I don't think it's a given that RT dies tonight if he's town.

I will say, however, that the way Rex has been hard pushing RT tells me that they're most likely unpaired. I can't 100% rule out a bus but I don't think it's likely at this early point in the game. I feel like one of those two should probably be the lynch today.

You know what, I buy this. I also don't think scum would waste their Mason invite opportunity like that, and I don't think Vader would likely make this mistake as scum given that he'd have a partner or two (I'm leaning strongly towards a 8-2-1 game based on Icon's flip) to remind him and discuss Mason strategy with him.

Getting back to this one: Pie actually told me about this idea already in our chat, and I partially agree with it. I agree that scum would not be looking to waste their Mason invitations, though there is inherently a bit of WIFOM with this line of logic. Still, prima facie, if two players are in a Mason chat together, all other things being equal, I would agree that they are more likely unpaired than not. I don't think this can be used to hard solve the game but it does help.

Why does being Tetris make you Popular?

Regardless, I'm fine testing this out, no reason not to.

VTL Pie

I think you have some good thoughts here, but I'm not certain Luna was actually Janitored. I was surprised to see that Luna didn't flip today, as the whole Mason thing this game seemed like it would make a Janitor low utility for the scum team. Like, you'd possibly still be able to steal someone's role, but only if they weren't already in a chat with a townie, so there's a lot of luck involved. I think it's more likely that Luna simply had a role that didn't flip for some reason. WF sort of already hinted at that.

Sorry for not being more active, I've been busy at work today. Give me a moment to collect all my thoughts. But first,

Unvote

Since Pie got confirmed.

Why Vader and Ragnar?

You should have seen my Classic Movies Mafia, lol. FYPOV, assuming you're town, I can see why you'd assume Popular was more likely town based on balance analysis. Obviously I'm not convinced you're town, however, I do think that Popular tilts toward town. Behaviorally speaking, I do think Pie feels a little towny this game. It's really hard to read Pie behaviorally, since he's genuinely very good at keeping his behavior consistent from game to game, so my read on him isn't super strong, but I do get good vibes from him so far.

This much is true. Also I'm pretty sure Ragnar and I were the first two to vote for Icon so there wasn't much reason for us to discuss the lynch anyway.

Going to respond to the second half of this first, because I vehemently disagree - scum could not have 'easily' faked being in a Mason chat with anyone other than a partner, because otherwise they would have been contradicted. The only claim regarding Mason chats right now that is even theoretically possibly a lie is RT claiming to have been in a Mason chat with Luna, and that's just because of the sudden hammer. If he had waited slightly longer to hammer, we could have all outed who we invited. And besides, I feel like you're totally missing the point I was making here, which is that a Janitor in this game would be weak because of how limited scum would be in using it - using it on anyone who is not exclusively in a Mason chat with you would be a huge risk, because they may have told their Mason buddy about their character and role (like Luna did to you). A Janitor would be so narrowly useful that it just doesn't make much sense to me to include it in a game like this.

As for you 'hinting' at Luna's role being flipless - yeah, that was just me mixing up my memory of what you said with my own ideas about the game. I did remember you saying that you knew something about his role and that you weren't going to share all the details yet (fair enough). I guess I conflated that in my mind with my own conclusions about Luna more likely being flipless than being Janitored.

This is true, but the case against her was based on behavior and the circumstances behind her claim. I think that RT is sus along the same lines, I just think that Rex's argument that we should lynch RT for claiming BP because she'd die the next night anyway is flawed and doesn't make much sense to me.

Yeah okay, I believe that.

An informed perspective is what I was getting at. I think scum would have had an easier time figuring out that Icon was 3P. Obviously they would have known he was not also scum, so then it's just a matter of whether he was actually 3P or just a TI, and I think that was solvable. Doesn't mean it was obvious. Hindsight is 20/20 after all. Regardless, I wasn't pushing you with that post, I was literally townreading you. I no longer had a scumread on you by the end of DP1, and I said as much to both Pie and Ragnar in our chats.

Listen, I don't have much time on my break here. If you scumread me based on behavior, fine, but I'm not lying about being busy. I used to just have to work on one line with five presses, now I've got two with nine total presses, in addition to my other responsibilities. I've just been occupied with too many other things today.

I'm not giving my role publicly, and I have my reasons why. I have told it to Ragnar since I still TR him. I will at least give you my character: Donkey Kong. That's all I'm saying for now.

Tbh reading this just confirms the town read I had on Casey back in DP2. She was not on either mislynch wagon - I find the idea that she's scum hard to buy. Her behavior seems to me to be mostly townie scumhunting. And it's worth remembering that the DP2 lynch wagon ended with us lynching the Beloved Princess so it was a lynch that scum reallllly would have wanted to go through. Yet it's a lynch that Casey never showed any interest in supporting.