Given that he's already claimed his character and my own uncertainties on Helz, I think he's a reasonable choice.
VTL Helz
Given that he's already claimed his character and my own uncertainties on Helz, I think he's a reasonable choice.
VTL Helz
I'd say it's at least reasonably likely that Epstein is scum. I'd be surprised if both Maxwell and Dershowitz aren't in this game, but it's plausible that there's only one, particularly if they're scum.
Originally Posted by Thoth on 10/7/2026 at 9:34 PM (post #250)
Originally Posted by whiteflame on 10/6/2026 at 4:49 PM (post #89)
Still, I think it's pretty likely based on the nature of the claim that at least NoAh is likely town. Don't think any scum partner would advise him to out as he has, especially given that they'd likely have to have asked about their characters before claiming.
If he is scum, I want to know what scummate would tell him to reveal his character like that. Unless Copperfield is a scum character ig
It'd be an odd choice, even if they felt they could just straight claim the character.
Originally Posted by Thoth on 10/7/2026 at 9:36 PM (post #252)
Originally Posted by whiteflame on 10/6/2026 at 4:56 PM (post #96)
Shouldn't have to say this, but I'm saying it anyway: careful when you post this final VTL. Refresh the page a couple of times before you post it so that we're not going to just lynch him out of stupidity.
Better yet, declare your intention to do so and then wait a couple minutes.
Fair enough, though I think we're beyond that at this point.
Originally Posted by Kohai on 10/7/2026 at 2:55 PM (post #224)
his vote put him at L1. I had unvoted to prevent an early hammer and he followed. Nothing weird IMO about that
I may be confused, then, because I'm not seeing when he got to L-1. My vote's on Shining (#118), yours is (#219), and now, absent Noah's vote (#143), we're at L-3. So Shining was at L-2 before he removed the vote. Did I miss something in the count? I don't want to belabor the point because, again, I'm unclear how much it's even worth reading into the decision regardless. But if the reason for removing the vote was just to prevent a hammer, I'm missing it.
Well, we've ground to a halt. I hope that, as Luna already requested, both Thoth and Shining have been pinged to get in here. I know Thoth was dealing with an illness last game that he may still be getting over, but Shining doesn't have an excuse that I'm aware of and I agree with Helz that he can be exceedingly hard to read when he's largely (or in this case entirely) absent.
I've already given my thoughts on everyone else. I do find it odd that Noah decided to unvote when his vote was on Shining for being absent, though given that he's new, it's just odd to me for now.
My vote is staying where it is, at least until Shining shows up. I'm also not giving Thoth a pass here. Dude showed up once, said "Whazzup" and disappeared. He's only marginally better, and didn't post overnight like he normally does.
Originally Posted by Helz on 10/7/2026 at 10:10 AM (post #208)
I would say thats healthy. I am curious where I was trying to gatekeep. If anything I have been pretty hands off this game and only really voiced some soft strategy and grabbed a few tells here and there. I expect my play this game will be outside of anything I have done in years for either alignment if I can not get myself to push.
I wouldn't call it "gatekeeping," though Magoroth used the term. I would agree, I think you've done less than usual to try and direct how voting is going and what you believe we should get out of it. You've mentioned reasons for it, and I'm keeping those in mind as well.
Originally Posted by Magoroth on 10/7/2026 at 3:02 AM (post #191)
Whiteflame seems to be doing the thing where he just summarises the game? It does feel somewhat better than in my previous games with him though. I can’t say I have much of a read on him at this stage.
Not too unusual for me as either alignment TBH, but yeah, my reads were basically just quick ISOs. I'm still comfortable with them this morning.
Part of me wants to vote Helz and say he is trying to gatekeep the game. Not that he doesn’t do this as Town as well but would be interesting to see where this leads
VTL: Helz
I'm always a little wary of Helz, in large part because he tends to be a pretty active voice early on and tries to shape perceptions. Not a criticism, I love the style of play, but it's either a big positive or a big negative depending on what side he's working for. That being said, I don't get voting for him just because that's his style.
Originally Posted by Magoroth on 10/7/2026 at 2:53 AM (post #188)
Originally Posted by NoAhLeEcLaRk on 06/10/2026 at 19:53 (post #6)
I'm David Copperfield, ig I vanished the statue of liberty and my property taxes
Question is, since Noah is pretty new would he just instantly claim like this as scum? Does Mafia have a night 0 chat or something like that? It looks kinda towny for a person to claim so fast
It wouldn't be terribly unusual for mods to open up a Discord channel and invite scum in a day in advance of the start of the game, so it is entirely possible that scum have had some prep time, though I'm not assuming as much at this point. It's more a basis for me not to just straight townread claims that look good on their face.
Originally Posted by Lunatic on 10/6/2026 at 11:37 PM (post #172)
Originally Posted by Kohai on 10/6/2026 at 9:26 PM (post #170)
One thing that kinda struck me about the n0 hypos here: Both Helz and Mag1c hypos folks not in the game. Not sure if that means anything or not.
On the hypos, I don't think they're the same thing. Helz named Rex in his first post and right after said the player list got corrected, so Rex was probably just on the old list. Mag1c's is different. That was hours in, and "between Pie and Noah" basically means not picking anyone. Also kinda weird he didn't get the n0 peek idea when he's played a ton. Not a scumread yet, could be he was just lazy and didn't fully read what helz said. Seems like he gets it now.
Fair point. My null read on Mag1c will stick for now, and my read on Helz had nothing to do with the hypos so that's not going to shift just yet, but I think it's worth keeping in mind the context for those choices.
Originally Posted by Helz on 10/6/2026 at 11:52 PM (post #174)
The flavor thing I am not super focused on. I wanted content to help break RVS and it seems to have pushed the game along a little bit. That and Noah's reaction it seems everyone agrees with my thinking on which is worth something.
I will say I am not super concerned with it revealing actions. My action you gotta do some real mental gymnastics to conclude its connection to my flavor. Its also interesting that the people hesitant or against the mass claim are also not concerned with an anti-claim mechanic although my paranoia there may not be fitting for this sites meta. I am just more use to it being in play to counter the issue caused by having AI flavor.
Peek claims I would like to keep up through the day cycles. Its just useful and removes an alignment cops requirement to seed their actions which I usually pick up pretty easily as a wolf. Something at zero cost to the town that will give us some benefit.
The anti-claim mechanic (for this site anyway) has become something I expect mods will announce in the OP if it exists. Maybe that's an incorrect assumption at this point since it's become more of a common use element in games, but it usually still gets a shout out somewhere. I'm not super concerned about it absent that, though there's always the concern that scum can use that information to improve their claims or utilize their roles effectively. Doesn't have to be a mechanic for it to be a danger to claim broadly.
Originally Posted by Lunatic on 10/6/2026 at 11:32 PM (post #171)
Originally Posted by whiteflame on 10/6/2026 at 9:16 PM (post #169)
Alright, time to ramble... hopefully mostly coherently...
Luna - Those early uncertainties about night phases kind of looked town at first, though it comes off as just not having read the full OP, something I'm guilty of as both town and scum. I can largely get into his head so far, even if it's mostly NAI - variable perspective on mass claims, handling the speed of the game over 7 days, saying he'd check me with that n0 investigation - but the read list gives me more to dig into. A little light on his reads of Mag1c and Noah so far. A little unclear on why he has a light townread on Helz in part because he's sussing Magoroth for volunteering his own character so easily when Helz requested it, but it's enough to give me a slight townread.
On Helz vs Magoroth, fair callout, but they're not the same thing to me. Helz asking for flavor is the part I said I didn't love. Asking is fishing, though, and fishing can come from either side. My Magoroth lean isn't really about the MJ claim by itself. It's the claim plus the "idk why but I scumread this" VTL on Kohai right after. That's a vote with no reason attached, and it's the main thing I'm on him for. The claim is just extra.
Alittle extra on magic/ noah since you said the reads were light.
Mag1c: lean town still, the part I actually like is that he went back and pointed at Mag and Helz for the early character claiming. That's a real read on people actively posting, not just vibes.
Noah: null, I'm being careful bc he's new. The instaclaim was literally him copying Kohai, which he admitted, and that reads more newbie than scum. What I'm watching is that he said he was suspicious of me, then dropped it as soon as Mag1c said his townread was weak. That's pretty sheepy. Same with putting Shining at L-1 without seeming to know what a hammer was yet. Not scum stuff, just means I can't read him off much yet.
Appreciate the more detailed thoughts.
Originally Posted by Kohai on 10/6/2026 at 11:26 PM (post #170)
One thing that kinda struck me about the n0 hypos here: Both Helz and Mag1c hypos folks not in the game. Not sure if that means anything or not.
I'm hesitant to put much weight on the N0 choices, but yeah, picking two people not even in the game is conspicuous.
Alright, time to ramble... hopefully mostly coherently...
Luna - Those early uncertainties about night phases kind of looked town at first, though it comes off as just not having read the full OP, something I'm guilty of as both town and scum. I can largely get into his head so far, even if it's mostly NAI - variable perspective on mass claims, handling the speed of the game over 7 days, saying he'd check me with that n0 investigation - but the read list gives me more to dig into. A little light on his reads of Mag1c and Noah so far. A little unclear on why he has a light townread on Helz in part because he's sussing Magoroth for volunteering his own character so easily when Helz requested it, but it's enough to give me a slight townread.
Kohai - SOP, verified claim gives him some cred from where I'm sitting, even if the justification is a little wonky. Largely just acting as an active participant throughout the DP so far, mentioning the whole flavor as AI point (it's in the OP, but there was some uncertainty about it) and trying generally to keep Noah apprised of terminology and how things work. Slight town.
Noah - Seems genuinely uncertain of how to play through the game, though that can just be a natural response from either alignment since he's new here. The David Copperfield claim is probably the main reason I'm considering a town lean on him. It came up so early and without prompting that I can't imagine he has a scum partner who was involved in that decision. Maybe he jumped the gun, but for now, slight town.
Helz - By contrast, the early claim from Helz has me uneasy. The character isn't an obvious pick given the theme, but more importantly, it was entirely unprompted. I get that we're on a different timeline for this game than usual, but that seemed like a strange choice. I like the idea of the N0 peek, but it's NAI, especially given the whole weirdness around picking Rex who isn't in the game. I found it weird that he asked about Magoroth's flavor as well. Fair takes on my responses so far, but still, null with a slight scum tinge.
Magoroth - Similar with Magoroth. The decision to claim early after Helz requested it, the weird post suggesting that he was thinking about pushing for a mass role claim but thought better of it, and the unclear scumread on Kohai doesn't help. A combination of my uncertainty on Magoroth's scum tells (I tend to be led astray a lot with him) and his claim keep me from a more solid scumread. Maybe it's just my assumption, but I figured Michael Jackson would be in the game pretty early. Not a slam dunk, but also not someone I'd expect scum to ask about early, and especially with the addition of that point about his PM not mentioning Epstein, I'm hesitant to scumread him more. Slight scum.
Mag1c - Decent early reads on Magoroth, Luna and Noah, not much else beyond thinking that Pie was in this game when he isn't. Null.
Shining and Thoth haven't really gotten involved yet, so I'll leave it here for the night.
Whiteflame - Null for now. Not claiming flavor is just wf being wf, he says "don't mass claim" every game as both alignments, so it doesn't tell us anything by itself. What I'm actually watching is his reasoning for shutting it down. "We already have 3 character claims and a full claim so no point getting more" is fair, but it also conveniently stops the claim train right before it gets to him. Also his only real action so far is a vote on Shining plus "we should consider policy lynches," and voting the guy who hasn't shown up is about the safest vote in the game rn. Not scummy, just doesn't cost him anything. Wanna see him actually put a read on someone who's posting.
Relative lack of sleep is not helping with providing any kind of meaningful reads, but I’ll try to get something up to that extent, hopefully before I go to bed.
Originally Posted by Lunatic on 10/6/2026 at 9:16 PM (post #153)
Originally Posted by Helz on 10/6/2026 at 4:35 PM (post #114)
Standard D1 strategy of insulating potential alignment cops N0 peek.
Essentially if every player posts a peek then if an alignment cop is killed we do not have to guess who they checked. If I am the alignment cop I am then insulated while town is given direct claims post flip. If I am not then any other alignment cop would be protected and able to out claims without fear.
Interesting strategy, I will say n0 roles are fairly uncommon here, (I have seen it 3-4 times probably though).
My n0 peek is whiteflame.
Somehow missed this reading back through the early DP. Also, fair pick Luna.
If I had to pick, Mag1c would have been my n0 pick.
Originally Posted by Helz on 10/6/2026 at 7:05 PM (post #122)
Im not opposed to doing a policy. This game in particular with a hard timeline town will just loose we can not afford to have that in the late game.
Less active players are more of a negative this game than most, and yeah, I think it behooves us to at least consider policy lynches.
Originally Posted by Helz on 10/6/2026 at 7:00 PM (post #119)
WhiteFlames response to the flavor claims was interesting. I specifically noted that while they wanted to withhold their claim they also did not discourage the concept itself.
I take it as a given because I’ve said it every game (whether I’m scum or town) that we shouldn’t mass claim. If it helps to say it, I’ll say it again, but I get that we have limited time and a theme split we can theoretically work with. That being said, we have 3 character claims and a full claim, so unless there’s another SOP claim in the mix, I don’t think it helps us to keep seeking more.
Originally Posted by Kohai on 10/6/2026 at 6:34 PM (post #113)
Originally Posted by whiteflame on 10/6/2026 at 6:23 PM (post #108)
While we're at it, might as well drag in more players.
VTL Shining
Where are you?
If shining ends up flipping scum I will be looking at Wf as a strong potential pairing.
Weird basis for doing it, but fine.
Damn I'm tired, didn't even tag Shining on that. This is what happens when you don't get 3 hours...
While we're at it, might as well drag in more players.
VTL Shining
Where are you?
Yup.
Unvote
Originally Posted by Kohai on 10/6/2026 at 6:03 PM (post #101)
Originally Posted by whiteflame on 10/6/2026 at 5:49 PM (post #89)
Alright, so first off, flavor claiming. There's been a lot of that going around this game and I'm hesitant to hop on that train. I think giving away my character gives at least some indication of what my role is, so I'm going to abstain. I will say, unlike what some of you have stated, Epstein is prominent in my PM.
Interesting. Epstein isn't mentioned at all in my role PM
I wouldn't be surprised if many PMs didn't, but mine most definitely does.
Originally Posted by Helz on 10/6/2026 at 5:58 PM (post #99)
Easy mode we just set a time for the vote to drop. Gives others time to recognize its gona happen and kills excuses for the most part of an accidental hammer.
Sounds like a good way to handle it. Looks like you've already dropped a time, so good plan.
Shouldn't have to say this, but I'm saying it anyway: careful when you post this final VTL. Refresh the page a couple of times before you post it so that we're not going to just lynch him out of stupidity.
Originally Posted by NoAhLeEcLaRk on 10/6/2026 at 5:47 PM (post #88)
I would like to put my vote on Kohai
You have to cast it clearly, so usually something along the lines of what I posted before. Don't need a colon, you can just put "VTL Kohai" in bold.
Alright, so first off, flavor claiming. There's been a lot of that going around this game and I'm hesitant to hop on that train. I think giving away my character gives at least some indication of what my role is, so I'm going to abstain. I will say, unlike what some of you have stated, Epstein is prominent in my PM.
Regarding the claims we've gotten so far, all of them seem at least somewhat believable. Bill Clinton and Michael Jackson are among the bigger names known to have associated with Epstein/gone to the island, and while I don't exactly have him as a household name, Ehud Barak had close ties with Epstein. The relationship is weaker with David Copperfield. Still, I think it's pretty likely based on the nature of the claim that at least NoAh is likely town. Don't think any scum partner would advise him to out as he has, especially given that they'd likely have to have asked about their characters before claiming. Given that they can ask, though, no character claim is a given besides a couple that I think seem pretty obvious are going to be here.
Originally Posted by NoAhLeEcLaRk on 10/6/2026 at 5:40 PM (post #84)
So should I vote for Kohai, or just skip this round? what do y'all think
That's up to you. I wouldn't view it as sus either way, especially since you're relatively new to this. From where I'm sitting, there's little harm in testing the role, but we don't absolutely have to do it and others might do so if you don't.