DebateCraft

Apocalypse Mafia - DP3

whiteflame · 2 months ago

Originally Posted by Kohai on 9/26/2026 at 10:57 PM (post #51)

What’s your justification

Ice-IX functions by seeding, transforming sources of water or ice into Ice-IX (which has a way higher melting temperature than normal ice). Effectively, because it literally comes into contact with water molecules and spreads along that path, I am the contact counter.

Apocalypse Mafia - DP3

whiteflame · 2 months ago

Originally Posted by ILikePie5 on 9/26/2026 at 10:21 PM (post #35)

Character: AI Takeover

Role: Dreamer

Justification: Bullish says he loves his AI overlords. AI is super smart and basically knows everything but still can be very wrong. This Dreamer.

Assuming I’m not visited, I will receive a list of 3 names, at least one of which is scum. Bullish mentioned that my ability is affected by modifiers such as Miller and Godfather.

I asked him how the modifier would even work. He said this (paraphrased): he will take one player who inherently investigates guilty then he will randomly take 2 other names from remaining pool.

Thats how I knew I was visited NP1. I received a list of 3 names last night: Luna, Vader, Whiteflame.

I'm going to withhold specific thoughts about your claim until I've had a chance to think it over. A couple of partially sleepless nights in a row are making it hard to think, so I'll pick this part back up tomorrow and devote what little capacity I have to answering questions.

Originally Posted by ILikePie5 on 9/26/2026 at 10:26 PM (post #37)

Originally Posted by whiteflame on 9/26/2026 at 5:22 PM (post #6)

Alright, cards on the table:

My role is called a Contact Counter. The way it works is that I target someone, and I get a count for the number of people who are in their contact chain. My visit counts towards that chain. So, for example, if I used it on myself and no one targeted me, it's a chain of 1. If I used it on someone else who didn't visit anyone, it's a chain of 2. If my target does visit someone, it's a chain of 3. I got a whole list of possible results based on various interactions after asking several questions of Bullish, so if people want to know them, I can go through it.

The long and short of it: I used my night actions on Kohai NP1 and Vader NP2. I chose two players who claimed roles that did not visit, since picking a target who did visit someone else would just confirm that they had visited someone, not who they visited or why. Both Kohai and Vader had chains of two, meaning that, absent any fuckery, I confirmed that Kohai did not visit anyone NP1 and Vader did not visit anyone NP2.

Very interesting claim. I would like to know what you asked Bullish and what his answer was

I asked if the role would be fooled by a Ninja (the answer was yes) and what the count would be if my target used a Redirector with no other contacts in the chain (the answer was four). I got information on potentially being RB'd ("no result"), targeting someone who can't be targeted e.g. a Hider (the answer was 0), and multivisitors generally (all distinct visits count).

Apocalypse Mafia - DP3

whiteflame · 2 months ago

Originally Posted by Kohai on 9/26/2026 at 7:39 PM (post #18)

Originally Posted by whiteflame on 9/26/2026 at 7:35 PM (post #17)

Here's what I'm getting mechanically:

Kohai has two green checks, one for alignment (Luna, NP2) and one for a lack of night action (WF, NP1).

Vader has one green check, one for a lack of night action (WF, NP2). He also has the benefit of having claimed Miller before there was any alignment investigative claim on the board.

Pie verified that he was visited during the NP. That's a check of sorts, though not much of one. The role he's claimed so far isn't alignment indicative, and its association with a Miller seems nonexistent. And even the verification is unclear, since he couldn't state who visited him or what Mag1c's role was, so it could have just been a shot in the dark with the hope of uncovering a claim from one or more of the people who could have visited him.

The problem is there's too many "green checks" for all of this to work out. Esentially everyone has some sort of "green check."

To an extent I agree. Aside from the role-based mechanics, the Miller is confirmed as being possible due to having a Cop in the game, and if we assume the Miller is true, then there must be a role (Cop or otherwise) that could be fooled by the Miller.

I'd say the value of those checks is a little unclear in some cases. I'd say what we saw as a green check for Pie doesn't look particularly strong, maybe a yellow check with a slight green tinge. My role does confirm no night action, but it's always possible that scum didn't use a night action on the night I used it. And given a Miller, we can and should suspect a GF or other scum role available to fool the Cop investigation. So I'm considering all those elements.

Apocalypse Mafia - DP3

whiteflame · 2 months ago

Here's what I'm getting mechanically:

Kohai has two green checks, one for alignment (Luna, NP2) and one for a lack of night action (WF, NP1).

Vader has one green check, one for a lack of night action (WF, NP2). He also has the benefit of having claimed Miller before there was any alignment investigative claim on the board.

Pie verified that he was visited during the NP. That's a check of sorts, though not much of one. The role he's claimed so far isn't alignment indicative, and its association with a Miller seems nonexistent. And even the verification is unclear, since he couldn't state who visited him or what Mag1c's role was, so it could have just been a shot in the dark with the hope of uncovering a claim from one or more of the people who could have visited him.

Apocalypse Mafia - DP3

whiteflame · 2 months ago

Originally Posted by Kohai on 9/26/2026 at 6:25 PM (post #7)

Given the roles have been quite simple so far I have a hard time to believe such a complex role is in the game.

I disagree that Mag1c's role is simple, though I agree the Doctor itself is. Considering Luna has strongly indicated that he's the Cop, you have to ask yourself why I'd go through all the trouble of claiming this role when I had a great deal of options available to me, or why I'd go through the trouble of proclaiming you innocent the DP after I was sussing you.

Apocalypse Mafia - DP3

whiteflame · 2 months ago

This does not make it a given that either Kohai or Vader are town, but it does support their claims. So now I'm going to ask the question I left lingering at the end of last DP:

What the fuck is Pie's role and why could a Miller affect it in any way?

Apocalypse Mafia - DP3

whiteflame · 2 months ago

Alright, cards on the table:

My role is called a Contact Counter. The way it works is that I target someone, and I get a count for the number of people who are in their contact chain. My visit counts towards that chain. So, for example, if I used it on myself and no one targeted me, it's a chain of 1. If I used it on someone else who didn't visit anyone, it's a chain of 2. If my target does visit someone, it's a chain of 3. I got a whole list of possible results based on various interactions after asking several questions of Bullish, so if people want to know them, I can go through it.

The long and short of it: I used my night actions on Kohai NP1 and Vader NP2. I chose two players who claimed roles that did not visit, since picking a target who did visit someone else would just confirm that they had visited someone, not who they visited or why. Both Kohai and Vader had chains of two, meaning that, absent any fuckery, I confirmed that Kohai did not visit anyone NP1 and Vader did not visit anyone NP2.