Originally Posted by Kohai on 9/25/2026 at 9:17 PM (post #271)
Happy sukkot btw
Chag Sukkot sameach!
My problem with Thoth's. claim: He's the only claimed vanilla in the game that's supposedly role madness.
That said, I do have mixed feelings here.
Except we know that a single vanilla is common to some rolemad games and that Bullish regularly includes one or two in his games. Not saying that means we should give Thoth a pass, but context doesn’t support the view that it’s scummy on its face.
Originally Posted by Thoth on 9/25/2026 at 7:15 PM (post #252)
I just figured I would townlock you if I knew you were vanilla
You said that earlier, I just don’t really understand why. Fake claiming Vanilla, particularly if I intuited correctly that that’s what you believed was incorrect in the OP, wouldn’t have been a stretch. It’s not important enough to harp on and it’s not the first time I haven’t really gotten your logic with a strategy as either town or scum, so it’s NAI.
Originally Posted by Thoth on 9/25/2026 at 6:29 PM (post #246)
Fishing for whiteflame's claim like that was probably wrong of me
It was a little strange. I’m still not sure what the point was.
Originally Posted by Thoth on 9/25/2026 at 6:33 PM (post #249)
Regarding whiteflame's claim in #166, I am always sus when someone claims something they like or are familiar with. This is very mild evidence against whiteflame imo
I mean, fair. I was legitimately excited to get it.
Originally Posted by Thoth on 9/25/2026 at 6:25 PM (post #244)
I am a bit confounded by Athena and Ra’s inclusion as possible choices. Ra isn’t the Egyptian god associated with judgement, that’s Osiris, and even if we’re considering all the gods in that pantheon involved in judgement, Anubis, Ma’at, Thoth and Ammit are all further up that list.
Was #110 breadcrumbing something?
Lol, happy coincidence that Egyptian gods were mentioned, no breadcrumbs here.
Alright, I'll at least say what I'm thinking for everyone briefly before I get back to work.
For reasons I won't get into, I'm ruling out a Lunatic lynch this DP. I know there's been a good deal of attention on him, particularly since he claimed his character, but I have significant reason to townread him both behaviorally and based on what I suspect he is.
If push comes to shove, I can explain why I still townread Kohai despite everything. I don't like a lot of what he's done behaviorally, but based on a couple of posts he made this DP and last, I have significant reason to read him as town. I also just don't think scum fake claim a Tree Stump, it's a weird choice that draws attention to them.
That leaves four.
Vader and Thoth are concerning. Even if we had a confirmed Cop, scum could just have been given the Miller as a fake claim, and I can't rule that out. I'm also a little hesitant to just accept a Vanilla claim at face value, but Thoth breadcrumbed it a good deal and I don't think he does that for setting up a fake Vanilla claim so early in the game (he said there was a lie in the OP pretty early in DP1). I can't rule it out entirely, but especially given the history of Bullish using Vanilla roles in similar games, it seems probable.
And then there's Pie and Mag1c.
Mag1c's claim is a major outlier compared with what everyone else has claimed so far, and yes, it's distinct from mine too. That being said, he's also the only claimed protective role (always a chance that was given as a fake claim, just weird for balancing the game) and he's right that I don't think he'd make up this claim as is. I don't think Mag1c's too likely to design a PM with this much extraneous detail, particularly when it was likely to be analyzed a good deal.
So that just leaves Pie. I believe that Pie knew he was visited, though I don't understand the reasoning behind much of what he's done with that knowledge and the role itself is NAI.
If I had to pick a plausible scum team, I could see a world where it's Vader and Thoth, one where either of them are paired with Pie, or an outside chance that it's just Pie and Mag1c. I won't dismiss Kohai entirely, but he's less of a concern for me.
I'm really sorely tempted to out my role and just see if we can put the pieces together. Still feels like I'm missing something, but I think that comes down to what roles Luna and I have. I'm running around this morning dealing with a vet appointment, hopefully be able to be on more consistently after that.
Originally Posted by Lunatic on 9/24/2026 at 11:16 PM (post #174)
Originally Posted by whiteflame on 9/24/2026 at 3:52 PM (post #142)
It’s been… a day, got a lot busier when I had to handle a mess at home. My bandwidth is lower than usual, but I’ll try to be involved from here.
If the consensus is that we want to move on from Mag1c, that’s fine, though I still have reservations there. I’ll set those aside for now. Pie at least knows he was visited. It’s unclear if he knew Mag1c was the one to do it, but he buys his claim. I could see a world in which they do this as a scum team, though it seems pretty convoluted. I could see them just both being town.
As for who to put attention on, I don’t think we’re going to get much more out of Kohai. Maybe he gives up his full claim, but we’ll likely still be in the same boat with him unless someone has information on his night action or lack thereof. Absent that, I’m more interested in Thoth’s claim, particularly after he started fishing for mine.
VTL Thoth
I also don't understand why he was fishing for yours if he was just assuming you were a vanilla. That is literally pointless, even if you assume you know someone's a vanilla, you never call attention to that.
Yep, it's beyond me. I'm going to sleep on this because I feel like staring at my screen isn't getting me any closer to an answer. Will be active tomorrow.
Might as well get up a claims list.
Dead players:
Vader v.1.0: Solar Flare - 2X RB
Banana: Alien Invasion - Even Night Follower
Lunatic: Nuclear Warfare - ???
Whiteflame: Ice-IX - ???
Thoth: Sun turning into a red giant - Vanilla
Pie: ??? - something that registers a visit to him
Mag1c: God exists and we face judgment - Doctor (chosen as "Jesus" NP0)
Kohai: Zombie Apocalypse - Tree Stump
Vader v.2.0 (formerly JenKiggans2026): Vacuum Decay - Miller
Originally Posted by Thoth on 9/24/2026 at 10:40 PM (post #171)
Originally Posted by whiteflame on 9/24/2026 at 9:33 PM (post #168)
Mistyped that Roman numeral, it’s Ice-IX. Long day.
So it goes.
My man.
Mistyped that Roman numeral, it’s Ice-IX. Long day.
I’m going to need to dig back through and reconsider my reads. I know attention is mostly on Luna atm, but I’m also aware I’m common to several POEs, so I suspect I won’t be far behind if he does full claim. I’d prefer to wait another DP to do so, but that will be up to the rest of you to decide.
Originally Posted by Kohai on 9/24/2026 at 8:41 PM (post #157)
Unvote
We have just over 24 hours. We need to come up with a consensus
Unvote
Yup. Starting to feel like I’m missing something obvious after Thoth’s claim, but I can’t put my finger on it.
Also, just saying, not that terrible of a role PM from where I’m sitting. Zombie Apocalypse is just about the only thing that would work for a Tree Stump from where I’m sitting. Guess they’re smart zombies.
Originally Posted by Kohai on 9/24/2026 at 3:38 PM (post #136)
Originally Posted by ILikePie5 on 9/24/2026 at 3:34 PM (post #134)
Originally Posted by Mag1cman on 9/24/2026 at 9:27 AM (post #90)
let’s get Lunatic’s claim. I’ll help you get Kohai’s if you help me with this.
Im comfortable with that. Right now my POE is Luna, Kohai, Thoth, Whiteflame. 50/50 chance. I also want to pursue Thoth today as well
Ive been really busy and will catch up later.
if we are going this route then why not mass claim today
Sincerely don’t know why there’s always someone in the first DP or two who goes to the massclaim well. I used to sus any consideration of it, but it’s gotten so common that it’s just puzzling. I don’t think Pie or Mag1c want everyone in their POE to claim, much less a massclaim. If mine is desired, we can cross that bridge when we come to it. Either way, no, I don’t think there’s a lot of value in a massclaim and I think we lose more than we gain.
It’s been… a day, got a lot busier when I had to handle a mess at home. My bandwidth is lower than usual, but I’ll try to be involved from here.
If the consensus is that we want to move on from Mag1c, that’s fine, though I still have reservations there. I’ll set those aside for now. Pie at least knows he was visited. It’s unclear if he knew Mag1c was the one to do it, but he buys his claim. I could see a world in which they do this as a scum team, though it seems pretty convoluted. I could see them just both being town.
As for who to put attention on, I don’t think we’re going to get much more out of Kohai. Maybe he gives up his full claim, but we’ll likely still be in the same boat with him unless someone has information on his night action or lack thereof. Absent that, I’m more interested in Thoth’s claim, particularly after he started fishing for mine.
VTL Thoth
Bullish is a staunch athiest who I highly doubt could make a coherent argument against God’s existence… or anything beyond the most surface level bad arguments. I highly doubt he has any substantial knowledge in theology or mythology.
Alright then.
It’s a detailed claim and pretty clear you were laying the groundwork for it for a while. Can’t say I read into the 22:12 line, but I did think that post read as odd and I can see it now that you point it out.
I am a bit confounded by Athena and Ra’s inclusion as possible choices. Ra isn’t the Egyptian god associated with judgement, that’s Osiris, and even if we’re considering all the gods in that pantheon involved in judgement, Anubis, Ma’at, Thoth and Ammit are all further up that list. Athena makes more sense than I originally thought because she has a history of making judgements like in the Trial of Orestes, but it seems like a big pivot from either Judgement Day or judgement after death, which has its own arbiters in Greek mythology.
It’s just a pretty eclectic slate, even for something as broad as “God exists and we face judgment.” I don’t want to hyperfixate on this, though, so I’m leaving it at that for now.
Could you explain why you said that Pie could confirm you? Is there something else to your role or are you just straight up the Doctor?
Originally Posted by Mag1cman on 9/24/2026 at 12:30 PM (post #105)
https://www.debatecraft.com/mafia/c/active-games/posts/87/apocalypse-mafia---dp1?page=3&comment_number=68
“I’d say too many people are afraid of mine. A pair of different ways it could go; I know of at least one couple in my town who actually spend time preparing for it.”
The sentence is just true. I’ve seen too many Christians talk about a fear of Judgement Day, there’s multiple theories among Christian scholars about how it would go down, and every family in my church is preparing for it; that comes with walking the path of faith.
Furthermore, the post was worded to leave a breadcrumb:
too = 2
pair = 2
one = 1
couple = 2
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2022%3A12&version=ESV
Revelation 22:12
“Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompenses with me, to repay each one for what he has done.”
My character is “God exists and we face judgment”
You might ask, how does that lead to Doctor? The answer is that I got to choose which god exists NP0. My options were Athena, Ra, and Jesus.
I thought this game had a lot more moving parts and bs roles than it actually did, so I chose Jesus hoping to get something really OP like a res ability, and got Doctor, because Jesus healed the sick, the crippled, and the demonically possessed.
Alright then, that at least gives me more to work with. Wonder what Athena and Ra would’ve given you, though both seem like somewhat strange choices for Judgement Day. Would’ve expected Ragnarok (so a Norse god) would be in the mix.
I’ll think on this.
From my perspective at least, your role is not confirmed, Pie demanded your claim, and yet he’s the one you claim should be able to effectively confirm you. Maybe this is an issue on his end and something he missed. I’m ready and willing to have that proven to me anytime.
Behaviorally, I’ve been mixed on your responses so far, but I wouldn’t say I’m actively scumreading you atm. I get that you have others who are, but maybe don’t just assume I’m scumreading you because I’ve got you in POE, have been asking questions and have been confused by some of your choices.
But no, I’m not going to townlock you over what I’ve seen so far. You’re leaving that largely to Pie and he hasn’t done much to establish that you are, honestly.
Originally Posted by Vader on 9/24/2026 at 9:50 AM (post #85)
I feel like my response to this is more personal strategy to the game of mafia itself rather than to the game and that’s a semantics debate I don’t want to get into. Even then, even if Pie is a fear kill, he was clearly not the top town player here and had some scum reads on him.
I agree, he wouldn’t be the obvious pick for protection.
It’s a busy morning, I’ll be more active in the afternoon. I find it odd that Mag1c is this confident in Pie being town right now, since he has confirmed Mag1c’s night action, but still demanded that he claim his role despite Mag1c heavily implying that Pie knows at something about how his role works. I’ll go back through Luna’s case and see if he’s being overly selective later, but mechanically, I feel like I’m missing something that neither Mag1c nor Pie are being forthcoming about.
Originally Posted by Vader on 9/24/2026 at 7:22 AM (post #82)
Also why would mafia target Pie? His clear scum reads were Vader (1) and Kohai. Unless any of them were mafia, no reason to fear kill Pie unless they knew information
I think the insinuation is that Pie is commonly a fear kill as town rather than that he was doing anything specific this game to warrant the NK, though I don't love that as an explanation for protecting him. It's a pretty weird justification with more solid townreads on the table acknowledged by Mag1c.
Originally Posted by Lunatic on 9/24/2026 at 2:17 AM (post #79)
Originally Posted by whiteflame on 9/23/2026 at 9:36 PM (post #74)
So... I guess we're just trusting that Mag1c has a role that basically confirmed him to his target? Pie, is that true?
Doctor is a strong claim, I'll admit. If no other protective roles come out, there's a good chance its legit. I still have a problem with the behavior of magic and with a fake claim being on the table, its not entirely out of the question that mafia was given doctor as a fake claim. It's not the first time and definitely wouldn't be the last that we've seen scum claim doctor.
I'm not in a position to CC him or challenge the likelihood of his claim, and given what he's said so far about Pie effectively confirming his night action, I'm more just intrigued than I am sus of his claim. I'm with you behaviorally, and yes, I've seen more than a few scum claim doctor before.
Originally Posted by Lunatic on 9/24/2026 at 2:19 AM (post #80)
When you get on we need clarity from you about this whole mess.
It'd be a nice place to start and I don't know why Pie would encourage Mag1c to claim if he'd been given evidence during the NP that Mag1c had protected him. This whole situation is puzzling.
I'll leave it here for tonight. If Pie can confirm something here from Mag1c, he should. If he can't, then we're going to need more info from Mag1c. Pretty simple.
So... I guess we're just trusting that Mag1c has a role that basically confirmed him to his target? Pie, is that true?
Originally Posted by Kohai on 9/23/2026 at 10:34 PM (post #61)
Originally Posted by Mag1cman on 9/23/2026 at 10:22 PM (post #57)
Originally Posted by ILikePie5 on 9/23/2026 at 9:22 PM (post #50)
Originally Posted by Mag1cman on 9/23/2026 at 2:00 PM (post #26)
Originally Posted by ILikePie5 on 9/23/2026 at 10:07 AM (post #20)
Alright, one of you visited me last night. I know who you are and you know who you are. Confess or be lynched.
that would be me.
And pray tell what you did
I used a doctor ability on you.
Character and justification?
I'm not buying this.
Originally Posted by Kohai on 9/23/2026 at 11:12 PM (post #65)
Originally Posted by Lunatic on 9/23/2026 at 11:01 PM (post #63)
As I said earlier the justification and character makes zero sense. I’m never claiming my character as this only helps scum further. We’ve already had too many claims IMO
Can you explain why claiming your character would help scum? You've already role claimed, in what way could your character be worse than claiming your role?
Because scum are only provided with 1 fake role or character claim. THe more character claims we get the more it helps scum narrow the pool
As someone who currently thinks your behaviorally town, man, this isn't a great look. You say that giving away your character claim would be a problem, but you're clearly fine with getting Mag1c's despite him claiming what would theoretically be a role that he could confirm while still alive. Not saying I buy Mag1c's claim either, but this is pretty hypocritical.
Originally Posted by Mag1cman on 9/23/2026 at 10:22 PM (post #57)
Originally Posted by ILikePie5 on 9/23/2026 at 9:22 PM (post #50)
Originally Posted by Mag1cman on 9/23/2026 at 2:00 PM (post #26)
Originally Posted by ILikePie5 on 9/23/2026 at 10:07 AM (post #20)
Alright, one of you visited me last night. I know who you are and you know who you are. Confess or be lynched.
that would be me.
And pray tell what you did
I used a doctor ability on you.
Alright, that's a start.
Several of us have mentioned just how odd it was that you chose Pie as your target. Why did you pick him? Why are you claiming "a doctor ability" instead of just saying what your role is? Are you refusing to claim your character for a reason or is this another Kohai situation where we'll know your role, but neither character nor justification will be forthcoming?
