whiteflame

Originally Posted by Lunatic on 7/7/2026 at 10:35 AM (post #243)

We have 7 hours left. If no one is feeling banana, I will switch to Rex since he's my second top scum read. But id like people to at least consider Banana.

So I'd like to understand this read more:

Banana- Lean Scum- She has some role confirmation going for her, that's about it. Mods frequently give scum "confirmable" type roles though for balance, to prove the point that players being role confirmed should not eliminate need for lynching based on behavior. Banana behaviorally just feels different. She was a hypocrite in wanting to pressure people on the shining/thoth wagon despite the fact she herself was on the thoth wagon. But she didn't even follow through with that despite dedicating her entire np1 ability to basically posting she thinks we should be targetting those on that wagon. She voted me instead, and then just dis-appeared. Her aggressive stances early don't seem like her at all, and she seems to be trying to take advantage of a mislynch opportunity with whiteflames results rather than even attempt to consider a world where I would be town. Her behavior has been very unusual to her normal playstyle this game, and I challenge anyone to prove otherwise for me. Normally I feel like she screams town when town, and I am not getting that vibe at all now.

I think you're glossing over the role confirmation. The OP specifically says that "A message of hope appears," and while I can buy that Kohai might give scum a seemingly town-confirmed role, that seems like him putting his finger on the scale. Apart from that, I can't say I see a lot of difference in Banana's behavior. The push on you seems a little sudden, but I at least get where this is coming from, especially given the possibility of your being a Redirector. The main thing that's bothering me from her is a lack of reads. Usually by now, she's at least given some indication of how she sees everyone, but I haven't gotten any clarity on how she sees most of us.

Stop saying I was defensive lol. Pretty sure you have all seen me more heated, which is what I would call defensive. I'm giving you robot-esque sounding replies and thats being construed as defensive, I don't get it.

Fine, I'll leave that aside. I think avoiding claiming is causing a lot of the uncertainty around both of us, but I'll take that you haven't been heated about it.

It's not unheard of to have two protection roles in the same game, but I would expect a soft-protection to exist as a second protection rather than two hard protects. Usually its like body guard, and doc/bp, not just a straight up doc and bp. Chances are scum have a strong man, and that balances into it, though an every night strongman completely invalidates both roles. It's probably more likely there's a single protection role. That said I wouldn't die on that hill in a kohai game especially with balance as fucked as it is.

I can't say I get arguing against this balance from your perspective, especially given the BP is the most likely to be town. Seems like you're implying a balance issue exists in the game based on your role, so maybe that's the point.

Originally Posted by Wryly on 7/7/2026 at 1:48 AM (post #227)

Originally Posted by whiteflame on 7/6/2026 at 10:16 PM (post #214)

I can understand lynching me to confirm my role and result, but while I think the Role Cop argument has merit, it's banking a lot on my having a certain role and making a very specific choice with it.

This is what you said in Chicago Bears mafia when you were scum btw lol

It's not like I'm often given sets of information like this and this is my first time seeing this role, so I know I wouldn't expect people to trust my result at face value. We've done this dance with Dreamer results before, too, it's the reason Casey got lynched a couple of games back. Whether I'm scum or town, I get the thinking, even if I disagree with it personally.

Originally Posted by RexFavilla on 7/7/2026 at 12:01 AM (post #224)

Originally Posted by ILikePie5 on 7/6/2026 at 10:48 PM (post #218)

I need everyone to name exactly one person who they would lynch right now, gun to your head

WF. This whole time I set up my criticism of him where if he really was town I feel like it would be natural for him to question why I was setting my poe up in a way that precluded him from being town and being genuinely sussing a town Luna redirector. I feel like if he were town that would ne the natural first response - why could town me not be suspicious of a town redirector luna? Instead he's been more lawyery then I'd like and it feels a bit unctuous.

You VTL'd me out of nowhere, said it was due to "bad vibes," then made a short post about how you thought it was 1v1 between me and Luna without much explanation on the why of it, saying you were going to post more later. I told you I'd wait for you to elaborate before responding, but you still haven't done it. If you want me to respond to your conclusions absent the reasoning you said you'd post, I'm fine doing it, but I was giving you time to write out your complete thoughts. I guess that's "unctuous."

I'm calling it here. I'd prefer to get your thoughts in full so I can respond early, whether you claim or not is secondary to understanding your thought process.

VTL: RexFavilla

Forgot about the formatting. Also, tagging Rex.

Sorely tempted to say Luna, but given that I have at least some role information to work from with him and he has no room to escape a claim between BP and Redirector, my attention is mainly on Wylted and Rex. More behavioral info is placing Wylted as my top scumread between them (I gave my reasons in my reads earlier), though the combination of Mago's absence before him (dude was almost entirely absent as scum in the Frieren game) leads me to prefer a claim from Rex right now. At least we have Wylted's character claim. So for now at least:

VTL Rex

Originally Posted by RexFavilla on 7/6/2026 at 9:46 PM (post #209)

Originally Posted by Lunatic on 7/6/2026 at 9:21 PM (post #204)

Originally Posted by wylted on 7/6/2026 at 5:22 PM (post #196)

Lunatic essentially admitted to being a redirector. Mentioned the balance thing after Thoth claimed so immediately soft claimed it essentially when 1x bullet proof would be easier .

I but the theory that this is a role cop thing and he's like "fuck I guess we can't kill lunatic and steal stah claim"

So he does the second best thing

It's a very plausible thing.

It feels like whiteflame is scum every time I play with him though and I have a pang of guilt for sussing him

I did not admit to being redirector. You are reading too much into that, the comment about balance was also made before whiteflame said his result on me.

If you were BP you'd be trying to lynch Magic right now.

I'm not sure why a BP and Doctor being in the game seems off, particularly with a multi-shot Vig in play. If he ends up claiming BP, I'd be more surprised if that was the only protective role in play.

Originally Posted by Lunatic on 7/6/2026 at 9:21 PM (post #204)

Originally Posted by wylted on 7/6/2026 at 5:22 PM (post #196)

Lunatic essentially admitted to being a redirector. Mentioned the balance thing after Thoth claimed so immediately soft claimed it essentially when 1x bullet proof would be easier .

I but the theory that this is a role cop thing and he's like "fuck I guess we can't kill lunatic and steal stah claim"

So he does the second best thing

It's a very plausible thing.

It feels like whiteflame is scum every time I play with him though and I have a pang of guilt for sussing him

I did not admit to being redirector. You are reading too much into that, the comment about balance was also made before whiteflame said his result on me.

You were getting pretty defensive about the plausibility of a Redirector being in the game, so I get why Wylted came away with that perspective.

Originally Posted by wylted on 7/6/2026 at 7:22 PM (post #196)

Lunatic essentially admitted to being a redirector. Mentioned the balance thing after Thoth claimed so immediately soft claimed it essentially when 1x bullet proof would be easier .

I but the theory that this is a role cop thing and he's like "fuck I guess we can't kill lunatic and steal stah claim"

So he does the second best thing

It's a very plausible thing.

It feels like whiteflame is scum every time I play with him though and I have a pang of guilt for sussing him

I can understand lynching me to confirm my role and result, but while I think the Role Cop argument has merit, it's banking a lot on my having a certain role and making a very specific choice with it.

As for feeling like I'm scum every game... I don't blame you. Got a lot of that going around.

Originally Posted by Mag1cman on 7/6/2026 at 6:14 PM (post #193)

here’s a debate idea: THBT FDR is the most overrated president of all time

Honestly, I'd consider taking you up on that. I think there are several more overrated presidents.

Originally Posted by wylted on 7/6/2026 at 7:24 PM (post #197)

Magic also is clearly not wanting to claim and I think in that spot as scum they would rush to claim.

It implies some sort of power role he wants to hide so maybe have a protective role on him

He already said he's the Doc.

Originally Posted by Wryly on 7/6/2026 at 7:38 PM (post #198)

If someone is a JOAT would you see "JOAT" in the list

He says that is how a JOAT would appear if it were on the list.

Originally Posted by RexFavilla on 7/6/2026 at 5:07 PM (post #181)

Ugh I'm done phoneposting just lost my giant wall post. Long story short I think WF and Luna are in a semi1:1. If Luna is the town BG I dont see scum WF pulling this, hed just keep that info to himself. Luna, if you ARE town redirector I think WF is scum pulling the rolecop gambit. If Luna is scum roleblocker well then WF is town and Luna is scum. Will elaborate further later.

Sucks man, had that happen too many times. I'll wait for the elaboration before I respond.

UNVOTE

Alright. Still looking for some reads, but the claim seems plausible, particularly coming from Kohai.

Originally Posted by ILikePie5 on 7/6/2026 at 2:10 PM (post #170)

Originally Posted by whiteflame on 7/6/2026 at 12:21 PM (post #169)

Originally Posted by ILikePie5 on 7/6/2026 at 1:10 PM (post #166)

Did you ever say why you targeted Luna in the first place?

I haven't. It was largely based on a hunch. Later in DP1, Luna was expressing some outrage out of nowhere at Thoth for using an admittedly ridiculous acronym. It wasn't the only spot where he came off as a touch overzealous in his responses. Frustration and pushback aren't things he only does as scum, but I have a hard time reading them when I do see them, and I've he uses those kinds of posts to look townie when he's scum. Figured with an at least restricted role pool for him to claim from, I'd at least be able to narrow my concerns and lock him down.

Do you have examples from previous games?

I'd have to dig back through some of the games where we've had prolonged arguments back on DART, which I can do a bit later. On some of those occasions, he's been actually frustrated with me as town, and on others, it's been played up to derail a lynch. I'm not remembering specific examples atm.

Let’s get a claim from Mag1c. The slot is a continuation of DP1

I'd like to start with some reads from Mag1c, but I wouldn't mind a claim.

Let’s get votes on him. We don’t have that much time

We've still got ~24 hours, though I take your point. I hope when he said he'd "be around tomorrow after 5" he meant today, because the DP will be over before that time tomorrow. I'm fine with putting him at L-2 in the hopes that when he's done maneuvering through Chicago traffic, we can get some more out of him.

VTL: Mag1cman

Originally Posted by ILikePie5 on 7/6/2026 at 1:10 PM (post #166)

Did you ever say why you targeted Luna in the first place?

I haven't. It was largely based on a hunch. Later in DP1, Luna was expressing some outrage out of nowhere at Thoth for using an admittedly ridiculous acronym. It wasn't the only spot where he came off as a touch overzealous in his responses. Frustration and pushback aren't things he only does as scum, but I have a hard time reading them when I do see them, and I've he uses those kinds of posts to look townie when he's scum. Figured with an at least restricted role pool for him to claim from, I'd at least be able to narrow my concerns and lock him down.

Let’s get a claim from Mag1c. The slot is a continuation of DP1

I'd like to start with some reads from Mag1c, but I wouldn't mind a claim.

Originally Posted by RexFavilla on 7/6/2026 at 1:00 PM (post #161)

Originally Posted by whiteflame on 7/6/2026 at 10:21 AM (post #156)

Originally Posted by RexFavilla on 7/6/2026 at 9:38 AM (post #154)

VTL: whiteflame

I'll bite: care to explain?

Bad vibes.

Alright then. Any particular posts you're flagging or is this just generally speaking?

We're roughly 27 hours out from the end of this DP and I'd rather not be bringing any decision we make right up to the end of the DP so that we're having to make yet another last second decision. If people have reads, give them and let's talk about viable lynches because I don't have much clarity on what everyone's scumreads are at this point.

Originally Posted by RexFavilla on 7/6/2026 at 9:38 AM (post #154)

VTL: whiteflame

I'll bite: care to explain?

Originally Posted by Wryly on 7/5/2026 at 10:40 PM (post #142)

Wryly - I don't blame her for the focus on Thoth. I was giving him a lot of allowance for the usual weird behavior, but he was pushing that far enough that I had my vote on him for a while. I also just generally love all the Dungeon Crawler Carl quotes. I haven't read it yet, so this is all just teaser material encouraging me to pick it up ASAP, just what I need. She was relatively light in response to wylted's VTL. I get the argument about the Nexus pseudo-CCing a Redirector, though multiple roles that shift targets wouldn't be that unusual, particularly when one of those is passive and random and the other is directed. Still think that if Luna's the Redirector, he's more likely scum than not, but I can't dismiss the possibility that there's a town Redirector off-hand. Generally speaking, I like Wryly's interactions with Luna, which seem pretty balanced. I'd say slight town overall.

Danke!

I don't think the passive/targeted distinction really mitigates the implausibility of the two roles coexisting. You've still opened the door for two town redirections happening per night. Never seen that done, though I admit I've played comparatively fewer games than most people here.

wylted has spuriously voted me in the last several games I've played with him, and as a rule I don't take it seriously until it becomes serious. He's a mercurial voter in general. In this case he based his vote off of Mikal's announcement that he would vig one of the two of us for the cardinal sin of doubting his claim, which in itself wasn't even a serious FOS.

I hesitate to buy into the modpsych argument about what would and would not exist in a game made by Kohai, but I wouldn't be surprised if there's some oddities in the setup. As I've already said, Redirector is more likely to be scum IMO, though that depends on whether certain roles like Strengthener exist to counteract them. Don't think that's the case, but outside chance.

And yeah, don't blame you for how you've responded to wylted.

For the record I'm not completely dismissing Lunatic's suggestion that whiteflame could be a scum Role Cop pretending to be a Comedian. He could cop Luna, see he's Bulletproof, give a fake list with the other two roles being a flipped role and a sus role, and whatever happens after that is still a net gain for scum. Either Luna says ok I'm Bulletproof and whiteflame gets a little towncred, or Luna is resistant and begins to accrete suspicion.

I don't think it's the likelier possibility, but it's on my mind. Would like to hear from others on this since several of you seem to be buying whiteflame's claim.

I'd be surprised if anyone's just straight up townreading me at this point, I know I wouldn't take it as a given. I think this is a fair point.

I'm just going to focus on Wryly, Pie and wylted for tonight, hoping to get more info from Mag1c and Rex in particular to form some reads before the end of the DP.

Wryly - I don't blame her for the focus on Thoth. I was giving him a lot of allowance for the usual weird behavior, but he was pushing that far enough that I had my vote on him for a while. I also just generally love all the Dungeon Crawler Carl quotes. I haven't read it yet, so this is all just teaser material encouraging me to pick it up ASAP, just what I need. She was relatively light in response to wylted's VTL. I get the argument about the Nexus pseudo-CCing a Redirector, though multiple roles that shift targets wouldn't be that unusual, particularly when one of those is passive and random and the other is directed. Still think that if Luna's the Redirector, he's more likely scum than not, but I can't dismiss the possibility that there's a town Redirector off-hand. Generally speaking, I like Wryly's interactions with Luna, which seem pretty balanced. I'd say slight town overall.

Pie - I thought it was a little odd that he wanted to end the last DP on a coin flip given how much he was sussing Shining over his absence and his stated willingness to leave Thoth in the game due to his contributions, but I get coming off of a dragged out DP1 just wanting to flip a coin and see what comes of it. I get pushing for the claims on those who newly replace in, though it seems a little messed up to hold a replacement responsible for the absence of the person they're replacing. Maybe that's just me, I know it would help the rest of us but it's not the kind of policy I would support. In general, I think the positions and points that Pie has taken don't really swing either way to me, mainly because there's not a whole lot of scum hunting so far. I'd say that's kind of odd if there was more activity since Pie tends to push scum hunting more when there's an opportunity to do so, but with the holiday... gestures back to the last DP. Null.

wylted - The start of the DP had me sussing him a bit. The whole "why would scum do this NK?" argument came off as him trying to put some distance between himself and the obvious night action. He did give an argument for why he wouldn't do it, but I find it hard to believe that any scum team would just ignore a claimed Vig. In general, I've had trouble understanding his perception of me throughout the DP, though maybe that's down to me just misreading his posts. He starts off saying that I wouldn't have NK'd Mikal because questioning his role wouldn't "enter [my] reasoning" and then expressing confusion that I'd think there's any decent reason for choosing Mikal as a target. He gave some decent analysis of my result plus responded well to Luna. I'm still trying to get a handle on what he's thinking, which may require a read list. Null to slight scum depending on how much I'm reading into him.

Originally Posted by ILikePie5 on 7/5/2026 at 3:30 PM (post #100)

Driving home, I’ll check in in the evening. I skimmed a little.

@WF Can you ask if the other 2 roles given are pre-selected of random ie how does he get the two other roles

Heard back. He said he drew from a list, and that that list includes roles in the game. He would not say that it was limited to those roles, and would not say where he drew the other roles from if they weren't among the game's roles.

Originally Posted by Lunatic on 7/5/2026 at 6:43 PM (post #116)

Originally Posted by whiteflame on 7/5/2026 at 4:40 PM (post #114)

Originally Posted by Lunatic on 7/5/2026 at 6:30 PM (post #110)

Banana's public pronouncement is a point in her favor, though I'm always wary of just auto-townreading roles that I haven't seen given to scum before. It's screwed me over a few times. I think she looks pretty consistent with her usual town behavior so far.

Im actually a bit baffled by this. What about Bananas behavior is in line with her town behavior?

She tends to show more willingness to make stronger scumreads earlier as town. I also think she would have been more likely to go for an easy lynch on Shining given that Thoth would have been entirely unconfirmable going forward, while Shining’s absence was actively getting him sussed and was almost certain to get him replaced.

Knowing Thoth was town he seems like the ideal mislynch though. It’s something scum could never confidently kill, and if people decided to town read him he was secure to live until lylo.

I agree that he didn't do himself any favors, but he could have been mislynched at any time. Shining was an unknown based on inactivity, something that either he could have resolved later or his replacement could resolve. Both lynches were justifiable.

If my claim is still a major topic of discussion by tomorrow to the point where it’s a clear hindrance to the advancement of the game and the ability to pressure other players, I will claim. I wouldn’t be averting to claim if I didn’t see a clear town reason to do so.

Alright, I'm open to hearing from others on that score.

I would like to see some more scum hunting from you however, outside of the result.

Still working on a read set.

Originally Posted by Lunatic on 7/5/2026 at 6:30 PM (post #110)

Banana's public pronouncement is a point in her favor, though I'm always wary of just auto-townreading roles that I haven't seen given to scum before. It's screwed me over a few times. I think she looks pretty consistent with her usual town behavior so far.

Im actually a bit baffled by this. What about Bananas behavior is in line with her town behavior?

She tends to show more willingness to make stronger scumreads earlier as town. I also think she would have been more likely to go for an easy lynch on Shining given that Thoth would have been entirely unconfirmable going forward, while Shining’s absence was actively getting him sussed and was almost certain to get him replaced.

Originally Posted by Lunatic on 7/5/2026 at 6:18 PM (post #105)

Originally Posted by whiteflame on 7/5/2026 at 12:47 PM (post #99)

Generally been a busy Sunday, but I do want to dig back through this and the last DP and give some reads when I get a chance.

I do agree with wylted that it's likely a 50/50 situation on Luna, hence my concern about his pushback on the claim.

I still don't completely understand what you mean by pushback, my responses have been fairly robotic. I've directly confirmed I am one of the three roles you posited. Just trying to get you to think outside the box on things you and others may be jumping to preemptive conclusions about is all.

I’ll grant that you’ve confirmed your role is in that group, though recognizing what that includes, I think it’s fair to be suspicious about coasting on that restriction should you be pushed to claim.

Originally Posted by ILikePie5 on 7/5/2026 at 3:30 PM (post #100)

Driving home, I’ll check in in the evening. I skimmed a little.

@WF Can you ask if the other 2 roles given are pre-selected of random ie how does he get the two other roles

I’ve asked, waiting to hear back.

Generally been a busy Sunday, but I do want to dig back through this and the last DP and give some reads when I get a chance.

I do agree with wylted that it's likely a 50/50 situation on Luna, hence my concern about his pushback on the claim.

Apart from that, I'll just give some really basic thoughts for now.

Rex and Mag1c are necessarily going to be tough because of limited posting so far, though that's just a consequence of subbing in/a busy holiday weekend. I like what I've seen from Mag1c so far, harder to read Rex.

Banana's public pronouncement is a point in her favor, though I'm always wary of just auto-townreading roles that I haven't seen given to scum before. It's screwed me over a few times. I think she looks pretty consistent with her usual town behavior so far.

Pie, wylted and Wryly are all the players I mainly want to spend time going through, so I'll withhold thoughts on them for now.

What role justification did Kohai give you?

Nvm apparently I temporarily forgot google exists.

I figured it was obvious, but if you're looking for specifics, I can provide some. The justification references her sharp tongue and wit on stage as a stand-up. She spends the show developing her skills after initially supporting her husband's abortive efforts.

Did you ask Kohai if the other two roles in the list would always be roles that are in the game as well? Mikal's role being in the list indicates at least some of the other players' roles make it into the "joke."

I can be more specific with the question, but when I asked about whether all those roles were in the game, he only said that they could be.

I can say the list of characters I submitted IG, but telling you my character would give away my role.

You're going to have to claim it eventually, but we can discuss whether that's necessary if your character is so thoroughly tied to your role.

Also you arent explaining why I need to even claim anything. Your results are out there. I am locked in to one of three things. I dont see why were doing this dog and pony show.

Because one of those roles, as you so helpfully highlighted, is a role we should be wary of as a plausible scum role. If your role indicates your alignment at all, that would be a big help with scumhunting this DP.