whiteflame

Originally Posted by Lunatic on 7/5/2026 at 12:03 AM (post #62)

Originally Posted by whiteflame on 7/4/2026 at 9:59 PM (post #61)

Reread what I actually said.

Don't gaslight me Mister.

Lol, you're the one who called the role scummy, not me.

I didn't call it scummy, you based your reasoning on me having to claim being that you think I am a 50-50 between BP and redirector. What I mean by me telling you I am not a scum redirector is that if I was a redirector, why can't I be a town redirector? Im not confirming I am any sort of redirector, just specifically saying even if I was a redirector, I am not aligned with scum.

Re-read what I said, and it makes sense.

Saying I was concerned about the existence of a Redirector in the game doesn't mean that was an automatic scumread on the role, but sure, it would stand out a lot more than the BP. You're getting awfully defensive about the reasoning behind one line of text where you said the words "scum redirector" without any prompting.

I am not being defensive, I think we’re having a semantically dispute. Regardless I do not think your results justify further claim here.

I feel pretty confident about what you are, mainly just a matter of whom and why. You can at least start with a character claim, dude.

Reread what I actually said.

Don't gaslight me Mister.

Lol, you're the one who called the role scummy, not me.

I didn't call it scummy, you based your reasoning on me having to claim being that you think I am a 50-50 between BP and redirector. What I mean by me telling you I am not a scum redirector is that if I was a redirector, why can't I be a town redirector? Im not confirming I am any sort of redirector, just specifically saying even if I was a redirector, I am not aligned with scum.

Re-read what I said, and it makes sense.

Saying I was concerned about the existence of a Redirector in the game doesn't mean that was an automatic scumread on the role, but sure, it would stand out a lot more than the BP. You're getting awfully defensive about the reasoning behind one line of text where you said the words "scum redirector" without any prompting.

Why would I? I dont understand the logic for me claiming, you've already ousted my claim to a 1/3 chance, no need to narrow it down further for scum.

You've basically already given away which one is your claim when you said the Redirector role would be scum, so I don't see what the issue is here. If you're the BP, just say so and we can move on.

Don't gaslight me Mister.

Lol, you're the one who called the role scummy, not me.

Seen the first season of that forever ago good show and pick.

One of my favorites, definitely worth watching the rest when you get a chance!

I think i've seen this role a few times but its been a while. Well your results are at least accurate so your either telling the truth or are a scum role cop.

That makes one of us. So at least you're confirming the result, though I don't understand holding back on your claim at this point.

I would rather not be forced to claim because you think I am a scum redirector.

When did I say you were the scum redirector?

Originally Posted by wylted on 7/4/2026 at 10:50 PM (post #49)

If you have some sort of information about lunatic, I'd like to hear it.

Alright, I'll clarify and just claim:

I'm Midge Maisel from The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel. I'm also a role I've never seen before, the Comedian. The way the role works is that I target someone and receive a "joke," which consists of a list of 3 roles, one of which is their actual role. I targeted Luna last night. The three roles I received were:

Redirector

Delayed (NP2) Vigilante

1X Bulletproof

Considering one of those (the Vigilante) was Mikal's flip, that makes Luna's role a 50-50 between Redirector and BP. I don't like those odds.

Alright, I have some time, let’s discuss.

Regarding Thoth, the fact that he was still lying about his role is bonkers. Pretty sure he said it was a coin flip, though I guess he was banking on using the bluff to increase the odds that people wouldn’t target him. Why not just claim straight PGO in that case? I don’t know.

Regarding Mikal, I guess he did get as many shots as he wanted… starting NP2. Don’t get why he’d out himself before he could use it except to bluff scum, who would still have incentive to kill him. Dude probably banked on a NP2 confirmation.

And Banana has a confirmable role. That’s interesting. Similar to the Regent role I had in the Amber Mafia game.

Anyway, putting the focus on getting more info this DP, I’m going to put it to Luna: anything you’d like to share?

At a party for the 4th, but I’ll check in afterward. Hope those who are celebrating enjoy the holiday!

Originally Posted by Thoth on 7/3/2026 at 4:26 PM (post #258)

Originally Posted by whiteflame on 7/3/2026 at 3:23 PM (post #257)

Originally Posted by Thoth on 7/3/2026 at 4:17 PM (post #250)

Originally Posted by whiteflame on 7/3/2026 at 3:13 PM (post #245)

I don't think Mikal seriously thought most of us would believe his claim, but I could be wrong.

Then why would he use it as a reaction test?

A question for Mikal, though considering his history of running similar tests, we can assume he's using it to assess reactions so that he can get some behavioral reads. He tends to do that.

He tends to bait for reactions with claims he doesn’t think we will believe? And I’m the one who can’t keep his story straight??

That's not inconsistent. Responses still matter, whether they're to claims you believe or those you disbelieve. It's not a strategy I'd engage in and I'm not saying he's doing it well, but I can't understand just assuming it's an obviously real claim, either.

Originally Posted by Thoth on 7/3/2026 at 4:17 PM (post #250)

Originally Posted by whiteflame on 7/3/2026 at 3:13 PM (post #245)

I don't think Mikal seriously thought most of us would believe his claim, but I could be wrong.

Then why would he use it as a reaction test?

A question for Mikal, though considering his history of running similar tests, we can assume he's using it to assess reactions so that he can get some behavioral reads. He tends to do that.

UNVOTE

I'll unvote and we can see what happens. We know who's on both of these lynches, so the wagons still speak for themselves.

Originally Posted by Thoth on 7/3/2026 at 4:11 PM (post #242)

Originally Posted by whiteflame on 7/3/2026 at 2:53 PM (post #233)

Weird as some of Kohai's games have been, this is leaning a bit too heavily on modpsych for my liking.

Yeah? Again, if Mikal was reaction-baiting, he was modpsyching that we would believe a claim that outlandish in a Kohai game. Which other hosts who have run a game since Debatecraft started would that work for? Maybe Vader?

I don't think Mikal seriously thought most of us would believe his claim, but I could be wrong. And yeah, banking on Kohai's games including outlandish roles and weird balance issues isn't outside the realm of possibility, either.

Originally Posted by Wryly on 7/3/2026 at 4:10 PM (post #240)

She's calling for me. Sorry if I'm wrong about you, Thoth.

Wishing you and your grandmother the best.

Originally Posted by Thoth on 7/3/2026 at 4:09 PM (post #238)

Originally Posted by whiteflame on 7/3/2026 at 2:53 PM (post #232)

What's odder is inconsistencies when it comes to his susses, particularly when he says something looks off and then puts his focus elsewhere seemingly at random with the only explanation being a gutread.

What more explanation were you expecting? There wasn’t that much activity for me to draw inferences from, and nobody besides me was being seriously floated as a lynch candidate.

I've said it already, but I would think you would at least have considered Mikal as potential scum given the CC. I wouldn't say the issue was with who you chose as an alternative, just the lack of clarity on the why after pointing out the CC.

Originally Posted by ILikePie5 on 7/3/2026 at 4:06 PM (post #236)

Originally Posted by whiteflame on 7/3/2026 at 2:55 PM (post #235)

Looks like both Shining and Thoth are close enough to be viable options for the lynch. I'm still leaning towards Thoth, but I think there's good reason to go either way.

Just let it 50/50 if you can’t pick

Only problem there is that it makes analyzing the two wagons significantly harder. Still, tempted.

Looks like both Shining and Thoth are close enough to be viable options for the lynch. I'm still leaning towards Thoth, but I think there's good reason to go either way.

Originally Posted by Thoth on 7/3/2026 at 3:49 PM (post #229)

Originally Posted by whiteflame on 7/3/2026 at 2:43 PM (post #226)

Except it’s pretty clear his claim doesn’t exist, especially from his responses to other people saying he’s just baiting. I’d get it more if you just acknowledged that that’s likely the case so you aren’t sussing what is likely a made up claim anyway, but you seem to be taking it seriously and I don’t get that

My point is that you never know in a Kohai game. With most mods, I wouldn’t even consider the possibility, and Mikal wouldn’t even consider using it as a reaction test.

Weird as some of Kohai's games have been, this is leaning a bit too heavily on modpsych for my liking.

Originally Posted by Wryly on 7/3/2026 at 3:45 PM (post #227)

Originally Posted by whiteflame on 7/3/2026 at 3:12 PM (post #219)

The problem isn’t with the CC, it’s with Thoth’s response to it. I just don’t get why he’d point to the CC, then just vote Luna based on a gut read. I get that there are inconsistencies in his behavior as well, though Thoth just generally tends to have issues keeping his story straight whether he’s town or scum, so I look for more from him to establish a read.

You say he's inconsistent as either alignment but also say you sus him because of an inconsistency. Does it come down to how inconsistent must a Thoth be to tip from NAI to scum?

I suppose we could CFD over to Shining but we would have to be lynching blind. I don't like it.

I'll rephrase.

I expect inconsistencies from Thoth. I especially expect internal inconsistencies where he claims he did something for one reason and then states that he did it for another. Still, the more those build up, the more scummy he looks to me.

What's odder is inconsistencies when it comes to his susses, particularly when he says something looks off and then puts his focus elsewhere seemingly at random with the only explanation being a gutread.

But again, this is just adding up inconsistencies, which is when he tends to ping me most. Some inconsistencies look stranger or more random, but yeah, the more they happen, the more they stand out.

As for Shining, while I'm considering it, I'm still pretty stuck on Thoth atm. I think getting a lynch is paramount and I can see choosing either one, but I can't see learning anything new about Thoth later that could change my mind about him.

Originally Posted by Thoth on 7/3/2026 at 3:27 PM (post #222)

Originally Posted by whiteflame on 7/3/2026 at 1:24 PM (post #210)

As for Thoth, I agree with Pie that he’s at least contributing, but that pseudo-CC bothers me. I don’t buy that that is Mikal’s claim, and the fact that he’s not all over Thoth stands out (maybe it is just a reaction test), but the fact that Thoth hasn’t had much to say about it is pretty confounding and the gut read-based vote on Thoth after mentioning that CC is troubling, since he basically just writes it off as “Kohai can’t balance a game.”

Here’s the thing. In a 10-player game, Mikal’s claim is beyond ridiculous whether there are more extra kills or not. That leaves open the possibility that both my claim and Mikal’s claim are real because it’s already absurd enough for just his claim to exist.

Except it’s pretty clear his claim doesn’t exist, especially from his responses to other people saying he’s just baiting. I’d get it more if you just acknowledged that that’s likely the case so you aren’t sussing what is likely a made up claim anyway, but you seem to be taking it seriously and I don’t get that.

Originally Posted by Wryly on 7/3/2026 at 2:54 PM (post #214)

VTL: Thoth

He was gonna be lynched anyway under plurality but in the interests of giving town clear wagon data, here I sits.

I don't like the idea of costing town a potentially valuable role just because Shining is a low-effort player in general. If we had his claim right now that might be a different story. I'd rather lynch Thoth now and get a claim from Shining next DP.

The lack of a role claim from Shining is holding me back there as well.

I'm not sure why everyone is making so much of the CC when most of us seem to agree Mikal is bullshitting, btw. The inconsistencies in Thoth's story matter a lot more to me, but they don't seem to be as compelling to some of you. No idea if that means I'm giving them too much significance or what.

The problem isn’t with the CC, it’s with Thoth’s response to it. I just don’t get why he’d point to the CC, then just vote Luna based on a gut read. I get that there are inconsistencies in his behavior as well, though Thoth just generally tends to have issues keeping his story straight whether he’s town or scum, so I look for more from him to establish a read.

I’m fine with giving Rex a pass this DP. He’s picking up his contributions and I don’t want to hold him accountable for Mago being absent. If we’re basing the decision off of who is skirting by, Shining is the better choice anyway.

As for Thoth, I agree with Pie that he’s at least contributing, but that pseudo-CC bothers me. I don’t buy that that is Mikal’s claim, and the fact that he’s not all over Thoth stands out (maybe it is just a reaction test), but the fact that Thoth hasn’t had much to say about it is pretty confounding and the gut read-based vote on Thoth after mentioning that CC is troubling, since he basically just writes it off as “Kohai can’t balance a game.”

Originally Posted by ILikePie5 on 7/3/2026 at 1:15 PM (post #198)

Originally Posted by whiteflame on 7/3/2026 at 12:07 PM (post #197)

Originally Posted by ILikePie5 on 7/3/2026 at 12:56 PM (post #195)

Let’s vote Shining

What's the thinking?

The generic line. Zero contributions. Just came out and character claimed. At least Thoth is contributing and REF replaced Mago, so he will contribute. If he’s scum he’s been skating by

I sus his absence too, though that might have more to do with the outcome a couple of games back than anything else. If there’s support for it, I’d be fine with the choice.

At a vet appointment (routine), I’ll post again soon.

Originally Posted by ILikePie5 on 7/3/2026 at 12:56 PM (post #195)

Let’s vote Shining

What's the thinking?

Originally Posted by ILikePie5 on 7/3/2026 at 12:43 PM (post #187)

Originally Posted by whiteflame on 7/2/2026 at 9:40 PM (post #146)

Originally Posted by Mikal on 7/2/2026 at 9:09 PM (post #138)

Prob one scum between pie luna wf

This game was not randomized. Its not possible

Wr gad to submit chracters and build them. Meaning he had to build mafia based on submissions. From a sheer balance level one of those 3 are prob scum

Was waiting to see more but david is not making mago mafia.

It's obviously your call who you're going to shoot, but I can't say I get the logic. At what point did Kohai say that this game wasn't randomized, or from where are you inferring that it wasn't? I don't get how not randomizing somehow improves balance, either.

hes not, he’s mod psyching it

Should've expected that.

VTL: Thoth

I'll leave my vote on Thoth. I don't think we have any other viable options and we're running short on time.

From where I'm sitting right now, it's a choice between Thoth and no lynching. I did just read back through the OP and, though plurality lynching is in effect, so is no lynching. Not my preference atm, but something to consider.

Originally Posted by RexFavilla on 7/3/2026 at 12:39 AM (post #157)

It's late and I don't have time to read this shit, I'll chime in tomorrow. Don't kill me, I'm town!

Hopefully we'll see a little more from you before the DP ends, but considering Magoroth didn't post at all, this is already a dramatic improvement. Thanks for joining!

Originally Posted by Lunatic on 7/2/2026 at 11:30 PM (post #151)

Originally Posted by whiteflame on 7/2/2026 at 9:24 PM (post #150)

Originally Posted by Lunatic on 7/2/2026 at 11:07 PM (post #149)

Originally Posted by whiteflame on 7/2/2026 at 8:43 PM (post #148)

Originally Posted by Lunatic on 7/2/2026 at 10:36 PM (post #145)

This game is so fucking boring

Doesn't help that the focus of our attention is an absent player.

Suggest anything else then. Mikal wants to skip the day phase because he hates dp1. Pie hasn't offered up any suggestions. You haven't offered up any suggestions. Wrlylys busy with her granny. Thoth just full claimed then dipped. Bananas done nothing. Shining never does anything. Wylted just trolls.

I don't know how to read behavior out of nothing.

We have mago who is a completely empty spot who probably won't come back. Mikal isn't a vig, so hes not getting night killed. Mafia will 100% leave him alive to fuck us in a lylo situation, or he is mafia. IMO I think he's the perfect target. If people wanna actually play mafia this day phase I am happy to focus on anything else.

Other than the obvious (mistrusting Mikal's claim for both being an unlimited Vig and close to hard CC-ing Thoth's claim, and mistrusting Thoth for SOP-claiming late with a role that is an odd mix of PGO and Nexus, both of which would warrant an early claim), there's not much to say. There's too little behavior to read into and it wouldn't matter for much in DP1 anyway. Lynching an inactive at least has some benefit to town for driving activity in future DPs. I'm at least up for letting Mikal prove himself, even if that means he does so by shooting me. Thoth would be a possible alternate pick, but at least we know his claim.

mikals 139 basically confirms he was baiting. I would rather lynch mago over thoth. Chances are town has at least one neg utility role and no one else has really come forward being sus of it outside of for the obvious reasons, leads me to believe their might not be a miller or hated or something.

Like I said earlier, I think he makes sense as a lynch, we're just not going to get much information on anyone else from lynching him and there's not much to discuss when he's the default choice.

Originally Posted by Lunatic on 7/2/2026 at 11:07 PM (post #149)

Originally Posted by whiteflame on 7/2/2026 at 8:43 PM (post #148)

Originally Posted by Lunatic on 7/2/2026 at 10:36 PM (post #145)

This game is so fucking boring

Doesn't help that the focus of our attention is an absent player.

Suggest anything else then. Mikal wants to skip the day phase because he hates dp1. Pie hasn't offered up any suggestions. You haven't offered up any suggestions. Wrlylys busy with her granny. Thoth just full claimed then dipped. Bananas done nothing. Shining never does anything. Wylted just trolls.

I don't know how to read behavior out of nothing.

We have mago who is a completely empty spot who probably won't come back. Mikal isn't a vig, so hes not getting night killed. Mafia will 100% leave him alive to fuck us in a lylo situation, or he is mafia. IMO I think he's the perfect target. If people wanna actually play mafia this day phase I am happy to focus on anything else.

Other than the obvious (mistrusting Mikal's claim for both being an unlimited Vig and close to hard CC-ing Thoth's claim, and mistrusting Thoth for SOP-claiming late with a role that is an odd mix of PGO and Nexus, both of which would warrant an early claim), there's not much to say. There's too little behavior to read into and it wouldn't matter for much in DP1 anyway. Lynching an inactive at least has some benefit to town for driving activity in future DPs. I'm at least up for letting Mikal prove himself, even if that means he does so by shooting me. Thoth would be a possible alternate pick, but at least we know his claim.

Originally Posted by Lunatic on 7/2/2026 at 10:36 PM (post #145)

This game is so fucking boring

Doesn't help that the focus of our attention is an absent player.