Lunatic

Originally Posted by ILikePie5 on 9/27/2026 at 10:37 AM (post #77)

Originally Posted by Lunatic on 9/27/2026 at 11:26 AM (post #73)

It doesn’t tell them much to leave me alive going into LYLO. I also don’t think they thought I was dreamer especially considering how I said a Miller made sense. Why would a Dreamer say that.

Why would anything other than a dreamer know about being visited and also have something where a miller could effect it?

Dreamers usually don’t interact with Millers. I’ve never seen it interact with a Miller.

So then what were your talking about when you said the miller made sense with you?

Originally Posted by Kohai on 9/27/2026 at 10:34 AM (post #74)

Yeah. I’m strongly feeling a wf / Luna team.

Wf’s claim sticks out like a sore thumb

W!Pie always includes me in the dream for an easy ML

Lunatic’s cop claim: One of the gods Mag1c didn’t pick was more likely to be the cop especially given the wording of the flip

What specific wording? You think an entire miller was made around the potential for a 1x cop?

It doesn’t tell them much to leave me alive going into LYLO. I also don’t think they thought I was dreamer especially considering how I said a Miller made sense. Why would a Dreamer say that.

Why would anything other than a dreamer know about being visited and also have something where a miller could effect it?

Bullish said that he chooses someone that is guilty as one person, and the rest are randomized. If Kohai is town, that means exactly you + WF are scum. Cause Vader investigates guilty. But more likely, the odds are 50/50 that one of you is scum, and that leaves Kohai as scum.

Doesn't that mean both scum can be on your results?

Did anyone here not pick up on pie being dreamer? Be honest lol

Originally Posted by whiteflame on 9/27/2026 at 6:35 AM (post #65)

Whiteflame: 

Out of Pie/Vader, Pie/Kohai, and Vader/Kohai, which team do you think is most likely right now?

Do you think Kohai is actually town, or are you just saying his two checks make him difficult to lynch? Those aren't quite the same thing.

If I had to pick right now, it would probably be Pie/Vader. That in part comes down to an assumption about the role I think scum were given as a fake claim. I don’t see that being either Tree Stump or Dreamer. It’s possible scum just received a character, in which case that goes out the window.

There’s too many investigatives. Between you, me, Banana and Pie, that’s 4 and I don’t buy it. I do have some trouble buying that Pie would go to the lengths he did of saying that his Dreamer role supports the existence of a Miller knowing that his flip would make Vader sus, but it’s possible he was just banking on winning the game right here. The “validation” of his Dreamer role hasn’t struck me as particularly convincing. He’s played it such that he has had no risk of claiming he got results with a visit, and the whole “I was visited” line from last DP could easily have just been a shot in the dark aimed at either getting a claim (which he did) or appealing to an unknown scum visit.

And in answer to your last question, I’d say it’s that it makes him difficult to lynch. It’s always possible he’s just the GF and didn’t carry out the NK NP1, or that scum manipulated my night action to make it look like he hadn’t done anything, or any number of other possibilities that could explain those results. Given it’s either him or Vader and the latter at least has a role that makes sense to be in the game given either your or Pie’s role, it’s something I have to consider.

Awesome thanks for the answers.

Got questions for all of yall.

Pie:

If you're town, who are the two scum right now, and why? I want an actual pairing, not just a POE.

If someone else, say me, was in your shoes and asked someone who visited them np1, would you be suspicious of them?

Kohai:

I am not sure I am a fan of how easily you are using results to clear yourself. If you think there's a GF/Lawyer, who do you think it is and why? If pie and me were both to exist in this game, you have to admit that increases the likelihood of one of these roles existing. I would say you look best from whiteflames result, assuming he's not just scum with you.

You went from considering Pie/Vader to basically saying it's exactly Pie/Vader if Whiteflame isn't GF. What specifically makes Vader more likely than Pie's other possible partners?I

If Pie flips scum, what do you think his relationship with you looks like in hindsight? I'm particularly interested in your lack of a stronger reaction to his early pressure.

Whiteflame:

Out of Pie/Vader, Pie/Kohai, and Vader/Kohai, which team do you think is most likely right now?

Do you think Kohai is actually town, or are you just saying his two checks make him difficult to lynch? Those aren't quite the same thing.

Vader:

You seem pretty locked into Pie/Kohai. What's the strongest piece of evidence for that pairing in your opinion?

If Kohai is actually town because of my result, who is your second scum alongside Pie?

What is your full scope of whiteflame? It seems as if you have accepted him as town, am I wrong in that assumption?

That's all for now.

Originally Posted by whiteflame on 9/26/2026 at 9:31 PM (post #54)

Originally Posted by Kohai on 9/26/2026 at 10:57 PM (post #51)

What’s your justification

Ice-IX functions by seeding, transforming sources of water or ice into Ice-IX (which has a way higher melting temperature than normal ice). Effectively, because it literally comes into contact with water molecules and spreads along that path, I am the contact counter.

NVM found it

Originally Posted by whiteflame on 9/26/2026 at 4:22 PM (post #6)

Alright, cards on the table:

My role is called a Contact Counter. The way it works is that I target someone, and I get a count for the number of people who are in their contact chain. My visit counts towards that chain. So, for example, if I used it on myself and no one targeted me, it's a chain of 1. If I used it on someone else who didn't visit anyone, it's a chain of 2. If my target does visit someone, it's a chain of 3. I got a whole list of possible results based on various interactions after asking several questions of Bullish, so if people want to know them, I can go through it.

The long and short of it: I used my night actions on Kohai NP1 and Vader NP2. I chose two players who claimed roles that did not visit, since picking a target who did visit someone else would just confirm that they had visited someone, not who they visited or why. Both Kohai and Vader had chains of two, meaning that, absent any fuckery, I confirmed that Kohai did not visit anyone NP1 and Vader did not visit anyone NP2.

What is the justification between character and role?

Originally Posted by ILikePie5 on 9/26/2026 at 8:29 PM (post #38)

Originally Posted by Lunatic on 9/26/2026 at 6:11 PM (post #12)

Well I was hoping for some solid results last night, but nothing. I am Nuclear War, MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction). I am the cop. Justification is all about deterrence cold war era doctrine that says if 1 party uses nukes, the other will retaliate in kind and both parties will be destroyed. Maintaining nuclear deterrence depended on intelligence, early warning systems, and the ability to identify an enemy's actions before responses were made which is why I am cop. Thought the justification was kind of a stretch at first until I seen other people's justifications lol.

Night One I investigated Whiteflame, Night Two I investigated Kohai.

Both are innocent.

I am going to assume mafia have some sort of counter to Cop, so take these with a grain of salt.

Why did you choose WF and Kohai each night

https://www.debatecraft.com/mafia/c/active-games/posts/89/apocalypse-mafia---dp3?comment_number=29

Originally Posted by ILikePie5 on 9/26/2026 at 8:23 PM (post #36)

From my POV, it’s not Vader because Bullish specifically mentioned Miller in my PM. And with my Dream, it means that it’s EXACTLY Luna/WF or Luna/WF + Kohai, but the odds of Kohai being scum are the highest statistically

Can you explain the kohai part better? My brain is not understanding how you are arriving there...

Originally Posted by ILikePie5 on 9/26/2026 at 8:21 PM (post #35)

Character: AI Takeover

Role: Dreamer

Justification: Bullish says he loves his AI overlords. AI is super smart and basically knows everything but still can be very wrong. This Dreamer.

Assuming I’m not visited, I will receive a list of 3 names, at least one of which is scum. Bullish mentioned that my ability is affected by modifiers such as Miller and Godfather.

I asked him how the modifier would even work. He said this (paraphrased): he will take one player who inherently investigates guilty then he will randomly take 2 other names from remaining pool.

Thats how I knew I was visited NP1. I received a list of 3 names last night: Luna, Vader, Whiteflame.

Yeah I did suspect you would claim dreamer. I am not a fan of how you handled your role though, like at all. I still struggle to wrap my mind around why a dreamer would claim they were visited, that made it obvious what you were early and that mafia were just okay with you living despite you making it obvious what you were. Not to mention the overlap there is between a cop and dreamer on investigation power.

If you are town though, mafia will 100% have an answer to this, I guess miller is accounted for, but I wouldn't be surprised at all about a godfather or lawyer/framer.

Originally Posted by Kohai on 9/26/2026 at 6:51 PM (post #28)

Why did you check me / whiteflame over pie?

Because I am like 90% sure what pie is going to claim based on what he's hinted at. I'll let him claim to be sure, but if I am right, visiting him would have been counter productive. He is probably just scum anyways. I am always sus of whiteflame, so I wanted him out of the way early. And I suspected you at the end of last day phase for the sheep of whiteflames vote onto vader.

I've been thinking about where to go from here, and I don't really want to rush a vote yet. Pie is still my biggest priority. I already had him as my top scumread, and with all the claims/results we have now, I really want to see his full claim before we start locking into teams. I don't think Kohai has a ton of scum equity unless he is a goon or something. Vader's Pie/Kohai theory is interesting though, especially since I've had questions about those two together before. I just don't think we can count on scum not having some kind of counter to me though. He would have had to have ninja'd np1, and godfathered/lawyered np2. I dont know. I agree wuth whiteflame that two green checks makes it very hard to scum read kohai.

So basically:

Pie full claims, we figure out the possible teams, then decide where the vote goes.

We're probably at the point where one bad vote can fuck us, so I'd rather take a little time and actually work this out instead of yeeting someone and hoping we're right.

My top scumread is pie. I am not sure who is partner is. I still don't buy vader is scum, but I am open minded and want to press him further as well.

Pie please full claim. I won't be voting yet as we are probably in MYLO.

Well I was hoping for some solid results last night, but nothing. I am Nuclear War, MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction). I am the cop. Justification is all about deterrence cold war era doctrine that says if 1 party uses nukes, the other will retaliate in kind and both parties will be destroyed. Maintaining nuclear deterrence depended on intelligence, early warning systems, and the ability to identify an enemy's actions before responses were made which is why I am cop. Thought the justification was kind of a stretch at first until I seen other people's justifications lol.

Night One I investigated Whiteflame, Night Two I investigated Kohai.

Both are innocent.

I am going to assume mafia have some sort of counter to Cop, so take these with a grain of salt.

Originally Posted by Mag1cman on 9/25/2026 at 10:35 PM (post #438)

Yeah I’m really think Kohai+Lunatic even more now

More than happy to press kohai lol

Originally Posted by Mag1cman on 9/25/2026 at 10:35 PM (post #438)

Yeah I’m really think Kohai+Lunatic even more now

More than happy to press kohai lol

Time for some Pokemon Revolution Online, whilst I wait for that flip.

Originally Posted by Vader on 9/25/2026 at 10:05 PM (post #431)

Wow now I look like a raging dumbass LOL.

Raging is your town tell imo lmao

Originally Posted by Kohai on 9/25/2026 at 10:03 PM (post #428)

That feels so fucking fake.

What feels more fake to me is your activity level increasing right at the end of the day phase. You have been absent for most of the game, just posting tid bits here and there, nothing of substance, and suddenly start coming in hot with a vader vote EOD wagoning whiteflame immediately? I don't really buy it. I think we should have focused on you more this day phase. Shame I let myself get baited into another back and forth with magic.

Originally Posted by Vader on 9/25/2026 at 10:03 PM (post #426)

Kohai has been on every lynch wagon and hasn't given a thought of explanation. You need to seriously look at him and get him to claim. Tree stump and vanilla are not in a game together there's 0% chance

Yeah I have been begging for him to post more literally all day. Not a fan of kohais activity, the only reason I haven't severely pushed him is because I suspect other people more, but if I survive tonight I will spend a good time delving into him tomorrow for sure. It is suspicious that he suddenly became active towards the EOD but has been absent for so much of the game. And I really didn't like his and whiteflames vote on you here either.

Originally Posted by Vader on 9/25/2026 at 10:00 PM (post #422)

No i was a miller the whole time. How tf did I get lynched? It's so obviously Thoth and Kohai they legit hard pivoted cuz of time and Kohai basis makes zero sense. Town deserves to fucking lose lol

You weren't actually lynched, that was a reaction test. lol Now I gotta wonder if that was theatre or if I should town confirm you. lmao

Thoth was lynched.

Originally Posted by Vader on 9/25/2026 at 10:00 PM (post #422)

No i was a miller the whole time. How tf did I get lynched? It's so obviously Thoth and Kohai they legit hard pivoted cuz of time and Kohai basis makes zero sense. Town deserves to fucking lose lol

Lynched twice in a row, man that sucks

Originally Posted by Vader on 9/25/2026 at 9:57 PM (post #419)

I need the exact context of the lynch besides "activity." Gonna read up but unless any major changes, Kohai is my 100% lock VTL next DP from what I quickly skimmed lol that vote was so fucking manufactured

You were lynched. Are you scum?

If I die to night, I want the record to reflect that I think pie is scum.

Originally Posted by Kohai on 9/25/2026 at 9:30 PM (post #398)

Originally Posted by Lunatic on 9/25/2026 at 11:29 PM (post #395)

Heres hoping. I am sorry for being on late tonight, we can discuss more of some of the stuff that happened EOD tomorrow in full.

Same. Been busy as fuck. I didnt want to miss EOD

Happy to unpack that with you tomorrow. You've said that a couple of times but it lacks any foundational argument, so I don't exactly know how to respond to that.

Originally Posted by Mag1cman on 9/25/2026 at 9:29 PM (post #394)

Welp Thoth it is. TBH I would’ve no-lynched, let us discuss the next DP with more night actions, over choosing Thoth.

Fingers crossed that I was wrong on him I guess.

I think a lynch is fine here, narrows down things quite a bit regardless. In a role mad game vanilla/miller are two empty roles, I think its pretty obvious one of the two is scum.

Heres hoping. I am sorry for being on late tonight, we can discuss more of some of the stuff that happened EOD tomorrow in full.

Whiteflame your instintcts were not wrong about what you picked up on earlier. That should tell you where to vote

4 minutes and a split vote. Which side caves first or are we no lynching