RIP banana...
RIP banana...
Vader wrote:
I think there is a conversation to be had about mafia and the player pool relating to skill gap. It’s 10x harder to learn mechanics here because there is no beginner series or anything that you can dip toes into. I remember when I first started back in 2017 I was in a scum team with Luna in a beginner game and I learned a lot about scum mechanics, etc. We just don’t have that which widens the skill gap between new players and veterans
I vaguely remember that
Sorry about your uncle :/
The angle shooting wouldn’t have been a complaint if it worked out in scum’s favor and Mikal got mislynched, and he almost did. It’s only a problem because somehow it resulted in a mafia lynch
Casey_Risk wrote:
Lunatic wrote:
What rule break specifically? Because I don’t see any. Mago told us we could do something and we did, then back tracked on it later.
I mean, people were already dancing all over the line about maintaining anonymity, which is why Mag begrudgingly allowed it. I agree that allowing it, then backtracking was a... Questionable mod decision, but after he gave people strikes in-thread for not engaging with anonymity, I think it was reasonable for me to expect people to try and follow it. Mikal largely did not (and I'm not just referring to accidentally posting on his main).
Your own clan mate was posting from his main, and not even once tried to hide or disguise who he was lol
What rule break specifically? Because I don’t see any. Mago told us we could do something and we did, then back tracked on it later.
That’s a good idea actually.
/in
But it did upset people to the point they called to shut down the game.
Someone Being upset and wanting to cancel the game means every player who dedicated time and effort should be punished? Disgagree entirely.
Regardless of how effective it was in game advantage can we just acknowledge that sucks and will prevent people from wanting to play here?
They need to realize it’s not that deep. If they need a break after a heated game that’s cool.
A-Llewella wrote:
Imo the healthy thing is to acknowledge bad stuff happened and take corrective action so it does not happen again.
The unhealthy thing is to excuse what happened and ignore the problem allowing it to happen again.
Im not trying to sit around and point fingers at people. I do want to point fingers at a pattern of issues that’s harmful to the communities growth
You have to take people who angle shoot with a massive grain of salt. I didn’t buy Mikal’s stance on Oberon for example but I don’t fault him for having it.
A-Llewella wrote:
I’m sorry but if you can not recognize how insane it is for both town and scum players to call to shut down a game because of angleshooting rule breaking behavior we will not find common ground.
It does not matter that some people did not care about it. It’s a huge deal that it happened. This site needs to get right with following rules, not using OOG info and listening when they are told “do not do this” if this community is going to grow.
Excusing this behavior is wrong imo. I don’t care what DDO was and accepted. We can either grow past that toxic meta and expand or we can die in it. This is not normal for a mafia community
It’s not that toxic. It’s being exaggerated like crazy and being made to be more toxic than it really is or should be.
A-Llewella wrote:
I would challenge any person in this community to show me a game they have played where both town and scum players declared they wanted the game shut down due to rule breaks
Mago is not from the community until recently so his opinion is different if he comes from other sites
When you have an end of game with both town and mafia players saying the game should be shut down because of a players behavior there is obviously a big problem
I think that stems from Caine being salty he lost tbh magic and Casey seemed fine though
Magoroth wrote:
Lunatic wrote:
I should point out I wasn’t accusing you of using OGI, that one is 100% strictly on Mikal.
Some level of OGI is going to factor into reads even if people don’t admit it. I town read Rex last game for getting added in after the original 16 were added. Highly doubted scum would be added late. Turns out I was right lol
Yes. But you don’t mention it when yo see it. Other people may not have had the same insight, at least in principle. Obviously in this case it wouldn’t matter because who the hell would add scum post-game-start?
Like, it creates an unfair advantage if you do actually mention it.
Pointing out the elephant in the room is bad? We should assume mafia will do the same thing in their scum chat, it’s how they POE and figure out power roles and narrow down night kills.
I should point out I wasn’t accusing you of using OGI, that one is 100% strictly on Mikal.
Some level of OGI is going to factor into reads even if people don’t admit it. I town read Rex last game for getting added in after the original 16 were added. Highly doubted scum would be added late. Turns out I was right lol
A-Llewella wrote:
Kohai wrote:
Lunatic wrote:
Magoroth wrote:
Yes, thieves do tend to think the rules are for retards and people who obey them are just wusses.
lmao bro this is a debate site we play mafia for fun. We’re all just nerds here, it’s not that serious. “Thieves” lmao your joking
Aa a debate site we will find every rule and bend them however we can and argue that we see following the rules
To be very clear. I have probably played more games of mafia than a huge portion of this games players combined.
The behavior of this community is outrageously out of line. Rule breaks happen. Cool, let’s learn and move on. People sitting around and excusing them is not great.
We need to come together here, acknowledge the bad and move forward if we want this community to grow.
No real high quality mafia player would ever play on this site again if they had this dumpster fire for a first experience and saw leadership excusing hardcore rule breaks
I think it’s being over exaggerated by the complainers. There was a lot of behavioral analysis in this game, I was putting mad hours into dp1, just for people to dismiss towns victory as bull shit because of rule breaks. I think people need to chill out with rule break accusations.
A-Llewella wrote:
I feel like mommy and daddy are fighting right now as well. Lunatic and Mag are to massive positive things for this communities mafia stuff and it sucks seeing this hostility because people chose to break rules and angle shoot nonstop
Hes taking it more seriously than I am. I always talk like this, it isn’t personal lol. I’ve said worse to pie and he’s the homie
Magoroth wrote:
Yes, thieves do tend to think the rules are for retards and people who obey them are just wusses.
lmao bro this is a debate site we play mafia for fun. We’re all just nerds here, it’s not that serious. “Thieves” lmao your joking
Magoroth wrote:
Yes yes, I admit to making hosting mistakes. There. I agree with you on that. Did not give people the right to take advantage of grey areas like the account claiming thing.
Dont allow for grey areas in the first place. If people ask you questions you don’t like, refrain from answering them. If your gonna have a rule be hardline on it or don’t have the rule at all. Players will try to use every advantage they can to scum hunt that shouldn’t be a surprise
Which no one else could even physically do because the game restricted it to living players meaning he was only able to post from his main because he has site admin privileges lol
ILikePie5 wrote:
Oh and also, this entire bitching is coming from one player, and that’s Kohai. That should tell you everything you need to know
Mag1cman wasn’t even trying and Casey was busy and had very little time.
Kohai always plays the victim card just like every liberal. He is a garbage player at this game. Literally a 5 year old could understand logic better than this guy, and his posts in DP3 should tell you that. It was so blatantly obvious he was scum that it was depressing to see people give him a pass for it until the very end. He can bitch and moan about angle shooting all he wants, but the reality here is that he’s a horrible player both as town and scum.
Not to mention kohai broke the rule harder than anyone and was literally responding from his main account. Holy shit this is dumb
A-Llewella wrote:
Well let’s please seperate the issue of “people will know who others are” and the overt rule breaks of people hunting and talking about who they think people are.
These are separate concepts
The mod said this was okay lol. Can’t blame the player for doing what the mod allows just because they decided to change their mind later
Number 1. Interesting name calling. Seems all you and Mikal are capable of is trashtalking and bullying others or trying to see how much shit you two can get away with. Very sad because I actually had some amount of respect for you.
You gonna flip out on me for something stupid don’t get mad when I call you out for it lol. I literally put more behavior analysis than any one in this god damn game, Carried the entire town on my back dp1, had accurate scum reads, and your gonna whine that I factored in people changing their profile before getting their role pms into the start of my play, when I just told you I wouldn’t have outright lynched anyone for it and it was mostly to get activity and reactions out of people. Yeah could care less.
Fucker literally has the audacity to say “no I’m going to count the game” after
If your gonna make a game with wierd ass rules and not going to consistently apply them, then that’s on you, or the people who signed up for your game and dedicated their free time to scum hunting and put hours of their lives into it.
Fucker literally has the audacity to say “no I’m going to count the game” after
As a host, a player having dumb reads should have no bearing on you or the game. Not sure what your point is. I am sorry you were deeply offended by Mikal’s reads?
Tried to bait information out of the host. I seriously wanted to modkill him or give scum a disguiser when he did that. Can’t believe none of you see any issue with this. And I say attempted to bait information because my reasoning why I even answered that question the way I did was, if these roles are in the game they can just privately tell they dont want ppl to use their actual accounts (because why the fuck would they?). So not only did he do something absurdly scummy where I basically have to play Mafia AS THE HOST to try to avoid slipping information, he was also straight up wrong. Good riddance!
If there is a question you don’t want to answer, don’t answer it. Simple problem simple solution. Middling should always be a last resort and for a serious rule violation not because you’re pissed off at a player. That’s a quick way to get people to never play your games.
Don’t fucking tell me what’s not possible in an anonymous game. I cut my teeth on a site where anonymous games were COMMON and people did not do any of the shit that was done this game, AND people wouldn’t reveal their own identities or try to hunt for others. One game - the second game I ever hosted - I even PM’d a player and asked him, have you figured out who anyone is yet? His response? I’m actually trying to ignore that as much as I can, but I know X and Y slots are A and B. Yes, you can actually play an anonymous game without being a douchebag. I habe done it. Please don’t try to sell that it’s not possinle because it’s a) boring and b) disprovable from my own experience.
I didn’t say it wasn’t possible, just that you can’t expect people to pretend like they don’t know who people are when the stick to the same posting styles, same posting schedules, and same behaviors. We are a small community that have played with each other for years, it’s pretty easy to tell who is who most of the time. But I was wrong on a few people still.
People did break the rules. They even stretched the rules with shit that should obviously not be okay, or that 99% I wouldn’t allow. Why the hell would I allow people to mass claik their account names and lynxh the liars? There is literally no way this isn’t angleshooting. If the rules changed midgamr, scum were operating on the assumption that the rules WOULD NOT change. So that literally creates information where there is none or should be none.
You had inconsistent answers in regards to your rules and I pointed them
out multiple times. You say one thing then immediately back track it. Again more dumb rules make more dumb rule breaks. Be consistent next time and have less arbitrary bull shit rules and it will be easier to follow them.
Magoroth wrote:
Lunatic wrote:
Magoroth wrote:
So, hopefully this game is a learning experience and people will try obeying the rules
No one was breaking fucking rules, if you had applied inconsistent answers about rules. You can't expect people to not guess at people's identities, and factor them into analysis. Impossible. We do that every game. At most you can expect us to RP about it which I tried to do and just refer to people as their in game name but if someone asks me why I scum read someone, and a behavior from a past game indicates them being scum to me, I should be able to point that out. Forcing town to like and convolute reasons for scum reading people is retarded. Its why I identified caine having a different play style this time then last time. Dude didn't have to tell us he was kohai for it to be obvious he was kohai. Not to mention the fact he kept fucking up and posting from his other account despite crying about breaking the rules ever five seconds.
Yall need to get your panties out of a bunch about the "rule break" bull shit. Have less shitty rules if you want less rule breaks.
People did break the rules. Maybe stop being such a 4chan incel and using “retarded” lamguage like “getting your panties in a twist”. You sound like a 14 year old teenager with that kind of language
You sound like a cancel culture libtard, that’s probably worse homie
No I agree. That was trash.
Dont give a fuck you both can cry me a god damn river. Bitches.
Magoroth wrote:
So, hopefully this game is a learning experience and people will try obeying the rules
No one was breaking fucking rules, if you had applied inconsistent answers about rules. You can't expect people to not guess at people's identities, and factor them into analysis. Impossible. We do that every game. At most you can expect us to RP about it which I tried to do and just refer to people as their in game name but if someone asks me why I scum read someone, and a behavior from a past game indicates them being scum to me, I should be able to point that out. Forcing town to like and convolute reasons for scum reading people is retarded. Its why I identified caine having a different play style this time then last time. Dude didn't have to tell us he was kohai for it to be obvious he was kohai. Not to mention the fact he kept fucking up and posting from his other account despite crying about breaking the rules ever five seconds.
Yall need to get your panties out of a bunch about the "rule break" bull shit. Have less shitty rules if you want less rule breaks.
Mestari wrote:
Nah didn't really have any effect on the game. We all survived. Calm tf down lol
But it could. There's no reason to ask for that information. It's outside the game of Mafia. The very desire to ask for it is an attempt to avoid conducting real behavioral analysis.
Mafia could just lie about it. Also I wouldn't have lynched anyone outright for it. I am very aware people receiving info at different times could be a mod thing. It would maybe contribute a bit into a scum read but I will always factor behavior into lynching someone. Its like 90% of what I was arguing with pie about EOD. Also it was the beginning of the phase, at the very least I figure it could get people active and talking, which it did. So you are welcome for generating activity.
Mestari wrote:
Also people quoting the time they received their role pm is wild work.
Nah didn't really have any effect on the game. We all survived. Calm tf down lol
Magoroth wrote:
Lunatic wrote:
Bruh, I was right. There was one scum in Pie, Kohai, Banana. 2 scum if you didn’t force me to claim and we went with Brands, though that’s a different story.
Brother that was such a vanilla heavy game that there was bound to be one scum among the vanillas. Choosing to random yeet a vanilla with like no behavior analysis makes no sense. Also why did you tunnel banana so much harder than Caine? Like your reasoning on her was so bad I couldn’t fathom you being town.
I told scum D1 there were many vanillas and that most people were Vanilla. Which in effect functions like being given fake claims.
The idea from the very start was for scum to claim Vanilla, disabling any PoE town could get from claims. You could have confirmed Town but massclaiming wouldnt break the game.
Being dubious of vanillas is fine. Blind lynching them and ignoring behavior analysis when there are 1000 post to read an analyze is another thing