Stephen

You haven't understood the question, or you have ignored it. LOOK again I shall repeat it, underlining and in bold.

You wrote here of the "Judas kiss"

Debby the🤡 wrote: Judas Iscariot betrayed Jesus on the night of the Last Supper, in the Garden of Gethsemane, shortly before Jesus' arrest, identifying him with a kiss to the arresting soldiers for 30 pieces of silver. This event, known as the Kiss of Judas, happened during Holy Week, with the specific day of planning often remembered as Spy Wednesday in Christian tradition.  

Stephen wrote:This doesn't answer the question, But what it does do is prove once again that you haven't read your bible..

(A)There are two versions about who it was that identified Jesus.

Debby the🤡 wrote: It was Jesus who identified the Satan in Judas and Peter.#42[.......]

But those gifted disciples didn't ,not a single one of them. and that is my point, Why couldn't they?

Now look at (A) , this was nothing to do with the lack of demon observation on the disciples behalf but YOU, for reasons known only to YOU, brought the identifying of JESUS by the kiss of Judas into the this conversation. I had to remind you that there are two different versions of who it is said identified Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane which I shall reproduce here.

Matthew 26:47-50 And while he yet spake, lo, Judas, one of the twelve, came, and with him a great multitude with swords and staves, from the chief priests and elders of the people.

48 Now he that betrayed him gave them a sign, saying, Whomsoever I shall kiss, that same is he: hold him fast.

49 And forthwith he came to Jesus, and said, Hail, master; and kissed him.

50 And Jesus said unto him, Friend, wherefore art thou come? Then came they, and laid hands on Jesus and took him.

But then the BIBLE also states at :

John 18:4-8

Jesus therefore, knowing all things that should come upon him, went forth, and said unto them, Whom seek ye?

5 They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them.

6 As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.

7 Then asked he them again, Whom seek ye? And they said, Jesus of Nazareth.

8 Jesus answered, I have told you that I am he: if therefore ye seek me, let these go their way:

im, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them.

6 As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.

7 Then asked he them again, Whom seek ye? And they said, Jesus of Nazareth.

8 Jesus answered, I have told you that I am he: if therefore ye seek me, let these go their way:

SO,Debby the🤡, which of these BIBLICAL versions is true?

John 12:5 from the Bible features 

Judas Iscariot questioning Mary of Bethany's anointing of Jesus with expensive perfume, asking why it wasn't sold (worth about a year's wages) to give to the poor, but Jesus reveals Mary's act was preparation for His burial, as commented on in BibleHub and BibleGateway. 

So! what's your point?

Remember Jesus’s ministry lasted only 3 years.

So! what's your point?

You've been given Bible verses that support Jesus as God. You choose not to believe it, even if you have your reasons, you still can't deny that you are choosing to ignore explicit support for the idea.

Nope. I've' been shown nothing that supports the Christian idea the Jesus is also God. So lets see them.

Quite the opposite. I have offered just a few of many verses that show Jesus is not god and could not be god ( unless he talks to himself a lot). And further, I believe Jesus would have been outraged and appalled that a whole new religion had been allowed to spring up in his name and that this said religion was preaching that he was actually god almighty himself!!!. It seems to have slipped the mind of the Christian that Jesus was a full blown Jew.

SO, let's see those BIBLE verses that you claim support the Christian idea that Jesus is also god.

Debby wrote: Even there Jesus did not know what was to come next after his sacrifice. But it ended well Jesus was resurrected and taken to heaven.

There a few thing wrong with what you state there.

Dust off your bible sunshine, you've' failed again.

(1) God knew and didn't tell Mary.

(2) Jesus knew he would be resurrected.

(3) The disciples knew because Jesus told them so. Although, when they heard he had "risen" they didn't believe it. Some faith in their master's teaching they had, didn't they?

Debby wrote:The idea that Jesus didn't know about heaven stems from biblical passages like 

Matthew 24:36, where He said only the Father knows the day or hour of His return, leading to the understanding that while fully God, Jesus voluntarily limited His divine knowledge as a human (the Kenosis doctrine, Philippians 2:5-8) to fulfill His mission and experience human life,

Oh stop it ffs! Jesus didn't know, but god did..as clearly shown from your own bible... The bible you have never read for yourself.

Debby wrote:to fulfill His mission and experience human life,

Ok, Why did he have to experience human life?

Even there Jesus did not know what was to come next after his sacrifice. But it ended well Jesus was resurrected and taken to heaven.

There a few thing wrong with what you state there.

Dust off your bible sunshine, you've' failed again.

(1) God knew and didn't tell Mary.

(2) Jesus knew he would be resurrected.

(3) The disciples knew because Jesus told them so. Although, when they heard he had "risen" they didn't believe it. Some faith in their master's teaching they had, didn't they?

Why not?

The bible doesn't say that does it?

Matthew. Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.

James.  If any of you lacks wisdom, you should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to you.

Jeramiah. Call to me and I will answer you and tell you great and unsearchable things you do not know.

Moses questioned god. As did Isaiah, David, Solomon, Job, and many others. Even Jesus asked god why he had forsaken him, ( sorry I forgot, Jesus was actually asking himself that question) if we are to believe the bible.

God is endless, he cannot be questioned.

Why not?

Morning Serge.

wealth hungry theo-political organizations.

Indeed, we are, through out the NT told about Jesus' poverty and how he and the boys were supported by women, which a just a quick flick through its pages reveals that Jesus himself from day one was quite wealthy as were the the boys. He had rich friends in high places ( and low ones too). One has to wonder what Mary and Jo did with all that gold those wise astronomers from the East gave them not to mention those expensive oils & perfumes that they also gave them and that were said to be worth over a years wages, according to the thief and betrayer Judas?

John 12:5 “Why wasn’t this perfume sold and the money given to the poor? It was worth a year’s wages".

We can only guess they gave everything to the "poor"?

God is just.

Are you sure about that? Didn't he kill two of his trusted servants simply because they used the wrong "foreign " fire?

And then there was poor Uzzah . Didn't god kill him for simply trying to save Israel's most precious possession?. And who amongst us can forget the unjust treatment of his "most faithful servant", Job. Didn't god he sanction the killing of all 10 of Jobs children, destroy his home and kill all of his livestock for a bet? Don't make me laugh . All sounds pretty un-just to me. Unless you can justify it all.

And none of this explains why god had to become flesh, and why Christians believe he did, as per OP, does it, wylted

Jesus said, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" in a moment of intense anguish during his crucifixion, as recorded in Matthew 27:46 and Mark 15:34.

Indeed, and once again proving that Jesus could not have also been god.

Christians believe God became flesh in Jesus Christ primarily to save humanity from sin.

You have been relying on the unreliable AI again, I see. So let me tell you: God was forgiving the sins of his human creation well before the BIBLE says; he

become flesh. Indeed he forgave the whole nation of Israel quite a few times.

So, you have yet to explain why it is that Christians believe God had to become flesh?

How much do you know about the Christ Messiah prophecies of Book of Isaiah (this is Judaism not Christianity originally)?

You are welcome to inform me, if you believe I have misunderstood anything? So when you are ready, you have my full attention.

I have heard a few reasons as to why god is said to have become flesh and not once have I been able to understand why this "incarnation" had to happen and even why it should be believed.

So why is that Christians believe it?

God did not forsake Jesus.

Yes, we know most here can read and have read the bible for themselves, unlike you.

But Jesus in prayer asked, indeed he begged his "father" to relieve him of his terrible torturous demise. i.e. Jesus asked and it wasn't "given" now , was it? Also blowing the Christian idea of (1) being god & (2) the three persons entity, clean out of the water.

 God resurrected Jesus after his crucifixion and ascended him to heaven.

which is another thing that god forgot to mention to his mother "Mary blessed among all women", wasn't it.?

Jesus felt forsaken by God on the cross because 

He was bearing the weight of humanity's sin,

Don't make me laugh. He was terrified of what was to follow after he'd been arrested. And when he went to pray - to "his father" in heaven to be released from his burden, the only reply he got was the sound of a breeze whistling through the olive trees.

"Ask and it will be given" sayeth the prayer. how'd that work out for the son?

For our sins

You have already told us that Jesus was crucified for sedition.

HERE>>>https://www.debatecraft.com/forum/c/religion/posts/ht/i-cannot-be-satisfied?page=3&comment_number=75

1. In Matthew 24:36 and Mark 13:32, Jesus states, "But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father". 
2. 
   

Proving once again that Jesus is not god as I have claimed and stated in my Jesus Is Not God thread Here>>>https://www.debatecraft.com/forum/c/religion/posts/iw/jesus-is-not-god

The Romans killed Jesus primarily for political reasons, specifically for sedition or treason.

Yes I know. See>>>#72 above

Judas Iscariot betrayed Jesus on the night of the Last Supper, in the Garden of Gethsemane, shortly before Jesus' arrest, identifying him with a kiss to the arresting soldiers for 30 pieces of silver. This event, known as the Kiss of Judas, happened during Holy Week, with the specific day of planning often remembered as Spy Wednesday in Christian tradition.  

This doesn't answer the question, But what it does do is prove once again that you haven't read your bible..

There are two versions about who it was that identified Jesus.

Debby wrote: The disciples did not recognize Judas as a "demon" because he maintained the 

outward appearance of a normal, loyal follower and his possession by Satan was an internal spiritual state, not a visible physical manifestation. 

So how did someone get to write about Satan entering Judas ?

I mean, if the disciples who were present at the time and endowed with all their supper powers and sitting in very close proximity to Judas couldn't recognise a demon - Lord of the demons no less - how do we believe an author writing years afterwards about something he couldn't have witnessed?

You really aught to stop relying on the totally unreliable AI for your useless information. It only causes you to backpedal and tell lies. And further, It only makes you out to be the .🤡 that you actually are.

Off you go now.

You lost. again. Accept it.

You lost..... again Accept it.

I have read the Bible

No you haven't and your schoolgirl errors so far have shown this to be the case, "Debby".

and several biblical scholars.

And I have debunked your offer "scholars" that turned out to have supported my arguments more than our own bullshite.

You really aught to stop relying on the totally unreliable AI for your useless information. It only causes you to backpedal and tell lies. And further, It only makes you out to be the .🤡 that you actually are.

Off you go now.

The New Testament emphasizes that while we can look for these signs, no one knows the exact "day or hour" of His return,

I know. It's amazing isn't' it? Not even Jesus, he that Christians believe is also God the creator of the heavens and the earth doesn't know what he's about to do next. Or does this fact point to the evidence that Jesus simply cannot also be god?

The Romans eventually embraced Christianity, but it was a gradual process: Emperor Constantine 

And with good reason. In short: he was about to be defeated at the battle of Milvian Bridge being outnumbered he needed a "miracle". Lo and behold he conveniently seen a sign (that no one else witnessed). Well I never!!! it said, ("In hoc signo vinces" _ "In this sign, you shall conquer"). Well I never!!! Again!!!

Which persuaded thousands of Christians to join his forces and defeat his brother-in -law. Max. Well played Connie lad, I say. I don't know, the superstition of the time really was amazing .

Oh BTW, it is said that Constantine didn't convert until he was on his death bed.

Of course none of this has anything to do with why Rome put Jesus to death.

Your first stab at this awkward question was to tell us that "the disciples didn't have the power to cast out Satan when he was said to have "entered Judas"

I showed you to be wrong. And at your second stab at my question then you doubled down an blatantly lied.

And now, as poor as it is, your third attempt at making excuses for the lack of observation on behalf of the disciples is this complete and utter shite below.

Debby wrote: The disciples did not recognize Judas as a "demon" because he maintained the 

outward appearance of a normal, loyal follower and his possession by Satan was an internal spiritual state, not a visible physical manifestation. 

Here's why they didn't know his true nature:

So how did someone get to write about Satan entering Judas ?

I mean, if the disciples who were present at the time and endowed with all their supper powers and sitting in very close proximity to Judas couldn't recognise a demon - Lord of the demons no less - how do we believe an author writing years afterwards about something he couldn't have witnessed?

Please keep digging your hole. It's the only progress you're making as far as this subject is concerned.

The statement "Matthew does not explain Revelation"

And I have explained a few times now that it isn't difficult to understand. Jesus explained what was to come without the imagery and symbolism in Matthews gospel.

He knew this simply because it had happened before - twice before - in fact . He'd been taught that at certain points in the history of mankind that there comes a transfer of power, and a transfer of power was happening in his own time he knew this simply because he understood the time and signs of the Age. The one he was experiencing and living in.

You really aught to read and pay attention to your bible a little closer.

Muslims were pivotal scientific scholars, especially during the Islamic Golden Age (c. 8th-15th centuries)

LOL. They might well have been on the way to being among the greatest scientific nations on earth...... until Muhamad came along. Then look what happened. He rejected even simple reasoning. Western politicians are quick do dispel the blatant and obvious backward thinking and nature of Islam by telling us about "the golden age of Islam".

But the problem with that bullshit is that the so called " golden age" was not brought about by Muslims as there were simply no such thing as Islam. And the only knowledge Muslims are commanded to seek are the "wisdom " of Allah.

I see you are engaging in another subject that you know very little about.

And I shall repeat

 Those Islamic countries you like to mention didn't have a pot to piss in before Western Civilisation stepped in, and that is my point. It wasn't "Allah" that got them out of tents and mud huts practically overnight to living in palaces, it was scientific knowledge from the West..

And they need to remember , that as quick Scientific West elevated them from tents and mud huts to Palaces, the Scientific West can send the right back to the 14th century any time it chooses to do so. And just as quick.

Revelation, 1 Corinthians, and Hebrews provide descriptions of heavenly activities and settings.

Have you read for yourself those those biblical book you have offered?

I shall answer that for you: "No Stephen I have not read any of those books."

You see, is all that these books you offer is a description of what EARTH is expected to look like in/ under a new Age. You and your AI are absolutely full of shite.

And the "new heavens" (plura) is simply a reference to how the night sky will appear to look from the Earth as one celestial house transitions from the old Age to the new Age.

Read your book ffs and stop pretending that you know and understand it inside out, cover to cover and back to front.🤡

Check again. I did so just minutes after his offer. Though I am not sure that I qualify.

And you didn't address my response above. Why is that?

I estimate your IQ to be over 130. If you ever need a friend I am here.

Not sure about the IQ classification , but thank you. I appreciate both your estimation and your friendship..

In heaven, beliefs vary, but common ideas include.....

 Blah, blah , blah. Absolute cobblers. So no one knows anything about this heavenly place at all then.

Tell me, where did you get you list of : Things To do In Heaven. ?