Lunatic

Seems fine to me, if it included Dart elo would be awesome but I understand that would be a lot of work

I had things like making a dayvig's gun backfire and Dreamer results include three townies

Yeah... I am glad you changed that, that is brutal....

I'm not smiling that it's during my turn in the mod queue, but I understand.

Well I promised you I would play a while back so ill /in.

But yeah the recent few games have kind of been chaotic leaning into disastrous imo, so its caused me a bit of burnout as well.

Hey man, I don't think you're supposed to post in games when you're not playing.

Oh shit, what if I get mod killed!

of course the one game I take a break from is the theme I would have been a mother fucking expert at. I have probably seen every Ryan George video ever made lol. Oh well, have fun guys

Damn your elo went into the gutter

Don't really care, if it was keeping track of wins throughout all of Dart and DDO it would be much different. I had a list keeping track of it at one point and I remember I had like 60-70 percent wins average back on DDO. Also every single game that has been hosted on Debateart so far has been a swing fest, so it's not the best starting batch of games.

I also thought sonya would be beloved princess based on her wiki

My issue was that you didn't claim the janitored role, which was 1x doc. You claimed straight-up doc, as in 'I can protect someone every night' doc. I feel like if you had claimed 1x doc it would not have been as sus. Even with you claiming full doc Supa in particular was starting to notice how excessive healing roles might be balanced by the extra kills that were possible.

As town you always claim you are more than x shot. The balance argument about x shots was already inferred and I did bring this point up to vader.

Page 24, post 694: https://www.debatecraft.com/mafia/c/active-games/posts/1f/suikoden-mafia-dp2?page=24

I obviously with inside knowledge know that most of these roles are 1x and make sense with the balance. Town does not know this. I acted in a way that town would naturally react in this situation, by instantly cc'ing vader which is what I should have done, and easing into the argument that there could be multiple protective roles later on if you consider x shot roles. Remember if I was town I wouldn't know this so I can't just outright come out and assume that he was 1x too.

Anyways, I literally did the thing you are claiming I should have done, but I did it in a more natural way. You might not have read that post, because there were so many posts in the game I can see you skipping it. But I literally did this.

To counterclaim Supa was a ballsy but shortsighted move, because it meant as soon as he died you would be on the chopping block.

That was my claim, that was the janitor. For you to call that short sighted you HAVE to admit that it was retarded to put multiple healing roles in the game, and I am not even saying that, you are inferring that by saying I made a dumb decision by using a janitored claim. Makes no sense lol. Means you knew that this would cause some chaos when you designed the game. I am in an uninformed minority, I have no clue what role im janitoring especially from an inactive player who hinted nothing about what he was. Whatever his claim was, was what I was going to have to stick with, and I played it the same way I would have as town.

I actually do not fault them for foregoing the recruit NP1, I probably would have done the same. But making that decision necessitated that they play DP2 as cautiously as possible and to above all else avoid Thoth getting lynched. They did the exact opposite of that.

I never had faith in the leprechaun claim, and I voiced it multiple times, I don't know why he was so committed to it. But yeah I think it would have looked scummy if I didn't bus him there anyway, because town me would have suspected that claim hella.

Here’s the thing though, by the end of DP1, it was confirmed Max was immune and Kohai/Mikal had heavily softer they were immune as well. I picked up on it pretty fast. That’s 3/4 townies (WF was dead by then)

The plan was to use the recruit np2 when we had more info on who to use it, but thoth was the recruiter and you saw what happened with that. We simply did not have enough information to risk it np1.

Ya your draw was pretty low. But killing Shining was a mistake imo

Had to use it on someone who hadn't hinted anything of their role so it couldn't be used against us later or lock anyone is. Ultra was also an option, but I think shining being one of the generals was really good because it was guaranteed they would be in the game. The problem was there was actually three fvcking protective roles, how the hell could I have predicted that? No matter what that would have been a problem down the line I think.

Just the way the game turned out. If WF hadn’t vigged Mharman, you guys probably would’ve been fine. Blessing in disguise by town. You also got unlucky by the role assignments and behaviors of specific players, which the mod can’t do much about tbh (re Wryly/Wylted)

I wasn't going to blame the mod for shit, I knew this was a swingy game from the get go, it just swung in the direction of town this time around. I am only getting pissed at rex because he is acting like mikal did something amazing here, when in actuality most of what he did was pretty negative for town, and I had not only called it out multiple times that mikal didn't actually know what he was doing most of the time, rex said he was giving mikal mvp for trolling us lol. Simply not the case. I can post multiple screenshots. I never thought mikal was a threat, and I was calling him out for every fuck up that helped us. Like when he started pressuring you lmao I was like this is classic mikal

This is what Thoth told me in a separate PM. Hence 'one of the scum team'. Take it up with him, but he expressed reticence about which characters he could have recruited, and I mentioned the list of Stars of Destiny he could have used. He then said that he didn't think that would have been reliable because of what Mikal said, and I did recall you suggesting that you weren't sure who was recruitable either.

I dont ever remember you giving us a list and telling us that we couldn't recruit people from a list. Maybe you should have made that more obvious. Or if your gonna do that why even make it so certain people can and cant be recruited anyway? Just a weird

mechanic that over complicated things for no reason.

I think this game would have been much better if there was no recruit mechanic. Having to guess who I can and cant recruit and that decision and how it could have backfired really impacted how short this game was. Just give us three mafia to start, and we probably could have won this pretty easily. Town was pretty bad. Mikal gave us so much information to work with by trying to flex how smart he was about the theme. We had guessed a lot of stuff including RT was Teo. IF we found teo we got extra uses of our role. So mikal pushing him for more information and RT being willing to give it was a really bad town move in general. I had also guessed that wryly was some sort of loved role, though my guess was beloved princess. Mikal had said his character had neg util so I did mention he could have a jailkeeper or redirect. Pie was figured out from POE. We had so much information that was completely unnececary for us to have because mikal kept trying to bully people into claiming. Mikal was definitely not MVP this game lol

Also I did tell thoth multiple times I didn't like the leprechaun claim. I was too lazy to help him find another claim though and he was really confident about it. I didn't know he was going to claim it the way he did, and when he equated his character to liking gold and therefor being a leprechaun, that was probably the worst way to sell it. But he seemed really attached to the claim, so I just let him do him. Should have drew a harder line in the sand on that, I knew that role would be seen as scummy. Most roles in this game were pretty basic, regular roles, maybe absent the brainwash and poisoner, I knew leprechaun would stand out like a sore thumb. Told thoth the same. Oh well.

Yes there actually was three town protective roles. You would have probably lynched a couple of us for that at some point and would have been right for the wrong reasons.

Anyways got multiple screenshots to prove that I wasn't a bit worried about mikals lore lord, also mentioned it in thread multiple times. Game had bad balance and rev is salty that I didn't want to try to make 4 mislynches happen with the town block that we had. It was impossible. But don't make up lies.

Also scum were very confused about who to recruit while I thought it was quite simple because most wikis have a list of the 107 Stars of Destiny, who are all recruitable characters. 

We don't have inside information or know anything about this retarded ass theme, dont act like us knowing who to recruit was obvious when half the players were either unrecruitable, and one could have even killed us upon recruiting him.

People immune to recruits:

Whiteflame

Mikal

Pie is immune to magic

RT (who would have killed us)

Airmax

5/ 13 players were unrecruitable. NP1 we had no way of knowing who was and wasn't recruitable, so it wasn't worth a risk at this point objectively to recruit someone especially considering we would have had to give up our janitor which was the only insurance we had for a claim.

Now given what we do know, heres the rest of the players and the consequences of recruiting them:

Vader- who was CC'ed by me (which was a real town doc at one point) and they were discussing lynching both of us anyway so this was a detrimental recruit

Wylted- Who would have been a mislynch target based

Wryly- Who would have been lynched when she claimed beloved since thats usually SOP

Magic- Well he got vigged so nothing we could do there

So looking at this game I was cooked either way. I would have need 4 mislynches and all the unrecruitables were in the town block. I gave your game more credit than it was actually due.

they were so invested in Mikal's lore mastery that they bought his bullshit about this being a complicated issue

False af. I commented multiple times that mikal was probably wrong in much of his analysis, both in game and the discord and can take screenshots to prove this. Why are you lying? you salty because you made bad modding decisions? Don't lie because of it lol.

So for so frazzling the scum team I think he and Pie might deserver joint MVPs lol.

your a retard.

GGs super close game.

Anyways I probably wont remove my vote from thoth here, but if we do vtnl I suppose its not the end of the world considering we had a mis-vig, we can count that as todays mislynch. Though I don't really understand the hesitance on thoth other than just irrational paranoia.

I just know they have like infinite recruit or some shit and we are going to kill and the game is over.

I agree with pie. If they have anything more than like a one shot recruit, this game is bastard and I officially dont give a fvck about the decision. recruitment in general is pretty OP if not managed well. Thats why you stopped seeing cults on DDO

Bro I have this fucking sinking feeling we are going to vote Thoth and get fucked by Pie and Luna

It is odd you are so paranoid of me considering I actually haven't fvcked you over as scum once since you have returned to mafia. Yet I still have to see this argument being made every game we play lol

Sticking up for me as a TP and then teaming up with me would be some crazy ass shit.

But your such a good scum mate in general I probably would do it for you only. <3

I also hate how Mikal is still saying that a Doc and a BG is a CC. Sorry I still think that is not a CC in a 13 person game where they have 2 different mechanics. TBH I am questioning Mikal here because I just feel he has a strong enough presence in this game where he’s going to command game and maybe force a couple of votes to go that way. Very little is known about the theme from most people and he’s the only one with commanding knowledge. I feel like he’s got to be town but I have a funny feeling because there’s no way that you play with Pie so much that you think he’s CC’ing an Aethestic role when he had my mislynch literally right there

I was actually thinking about this longer. I think usually Doc and Bodyguard do conflict, but usually doesn't really apply to this game. I am thinking in terms of 9 player games which we usually play. Now that I think about it, we have a 13 player game with multiple killing factions, a few extra protective roles might actually make sense. Then again, I am not sure there would be 4 of them, so I think bare minimum there is at least one scum in these protective claims. I also didn't factor in potential x shots which depending on how many protective shots we all share together could make more sense with the balance. I don't want to get too much into asking about that though because the townie response should always be "I have unlimited shots" even if they are one shot, to keep mafia guessing. That said, I will admit I maybe jumped the gun in assuming you were scum. Though I will say bodyguard is a common fake claim, I am not gonna lynch you for your role alone. Maybe I will thoth though, because there is behavior reasoning behind him as well as the claim is just inherently bad...

VTl pie

I wana go pie first then if he flips down get Thoth. Order doesn’t matter. I can’t shake this.

https://media0.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExbTVqeDRpa3V6bTdrbjl5amF6bnM4dzlhODg2eTM0dTBheTdoMm51NyZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/ehgM41tjEIuXXRz1S7/giphy.gif

The way Thoth is describing his role is that he’s immune to dying except by lynch. I don’t know why he’s concerned about dying. He can’t be targeted by non-lethal actions. He can’t be strongmanned. He’s basically immune to everything except being lynched

I mean I agree he is scum but I don't know where you are getting all that. My understanding is that he doesn't even know what an ascetic is. I asked him if he could be targeted by other roles and he said yes.

As for what I am, it’s Strengthener. I strengthened Luna. That’s why Mikal’s Redirect didn’t work.

This semi confirms me, at least confirming I didn't carry out the night kill. Assuming that is nobody thinks you and me are a scum team here.

I think someone is definitely fake claiming their characters. Either Tir McDohl or Ted is not in the game. I can't imagine a world where one of them is not in the game.

They are likely scum yes, mikal figured this out in 11 posts on page one.

Ah ok

Quick thought: Tir is not claiemd which is weird. What's the probability of wf being tir and tir being scum? Given myself and Tir end up on the opposing sides of the battle it would make sense for Teo to be town and Tir scum. 

If that’s the case why did you keep saying you thought tir was town?

He played on some werewolf community