Lunatic

Also, I was raging so hard when you refused to joint win with us. It was retarded. Play to your new wincon. We were giving you the win on a silver platter. Did you really want this town to win? Like what?

I felt like I was cooking that game as town despite the Thoth mislynch. My POE was pretty narrowed down and I had suspected you for a while but was kind of not wanting to get into trying to get that lunch done because I know you will fight that shit tooth and nail and that people will believe you because they always fucking do, you are one of the hardest people to lynch on the planet. And I had pieced together Whiteflame was likely scum after wryly claimed. I had a conspiracy theory that there was a scum communicative role because hers sounds so legit. So I wanted Whiteflame to think that I town read him super hard so you guys would keep me alive to try and manipulate me. I thought kohai or Wylted was the last scum, couldn’t wrap my head around the possibility of two scum even though you were continuously making that assumption it took me a while to piece together it was actually only two lol. Anyways yeah the town was bad and inactive but I felt like I could carry them to the endgame if I could convince Whiteflame that he had control over me and not to kill me, at worst thinking I would get roleblocked or something. And I felt it was unfair to Mikal who was also putting in work dp1 and helped town by getting his beloved princess off. The only reason I ended up agreeing to it is because Whiteflame was the homie and scum sided with me as third party in Russian mafia so I felt like I owed him big for that. But yeah definitely would have lost this if I stayed town but I could just safely blame the team at that point. I did all I could do really lol

lmao

https://imgflip.com/i/ajxygm

Put me and Mikal in a game together, you’re gonna have a high post count. Pie circa getting his new girlfriend and job was a very high poster as well.

All good it was annoying but we'll get em next time

It was interesting to me how little theme was discussed.

You quite literally said this in the OP of DP1:

"Theme split is not simple. Most of these women have at least one screw loose and have done some evil shit – don’t take villainy as equivalent to being scum. Roles have justification. Scum have been given two fake claims to use if they see fit, so overall theme analysis will be of limited use."

It was discussed several times that there was probably no point discussing the theme since you said that in dp1. Ngl though even if it wasn't said, its a pretty complex theme that I doubt many people are familiar with.

I think this led to theme as a whole falling to the wayside, with many people role claiming before character claiming.

Definitely. And yeah the soft claim meta is pretty bad. It's not really the idea imo its the execution. Almost every game people end up claiming far too frivously or more than was asked. Its an odd phenomon

I am interested in your thoughts on the game and player interactions. Seems like mod rarely comment these days. Was this a frustrating game for you to watch, did you enjoy it, what did you think of certain players and their performances, etc etc

I think WF and Pie were doing fine until DP3. The issue for them was that the internal town confirmations narrowed POE too much and made it very difficult to maneuver and pursue mislynches. Magoroth and Wryly confirming one another, Shining and Wylted confirming one another. They were only left with Banana (who was largely playing well) or an inactive slot as mislynch targets. I feel like without that town confirmation caging them in WF and Pie wouldn't have been nearly as stressed out at the end of those two DPs in a row.

If whiteflame wasn't the homie I would have never taken that deal lol but yeah I know if roles were reversed whietflame would 100% do it for me lol.

No offense pie, obviously your a friend too, but its more competitive with you lmao. I would have rejected that deal all day if it were literally anyone else.

I keep forgetting vader wasnt a player

Thoughts on the game set up:

Complex mechanizations ultimately kind of ruin the experience for the players, I can say this from experience when I've tried complex ideas they don't work out well. The last time I tried game show mafia with a trivia mechanic it was abused heavily for example. This one was just needlessly complex and I think a lot of people were confused with the favor and mechanics. Its crazy how little that even came into play in the end, since there was only ever one night phase. I can respect the amount of hard work that went into the theme and I could tell Rex has a lot of passion for this theme, so at the same time I am giving you props for the dedication, though I know with your activity and how busy you are in general I imagine trying to keep track of all the favor and votes must have been a major pain in the butt. Lastly I mentioned this a bit in the mason PM, but I honestly really really don't understand you always make it 2 v 10 in 12 player games. I ranted and raved at you for this in your last game, it makes it such an uphill battle for mafia. Whiteflame and pie were literally about to quit if I didn't take the third party deal with them, even after making a choice to not out pie as scum. You need to do the mislynch math here in the future, because 3 scum works way better here, I even would put three scum in an 11 player game. This worked out for mafia literally only because I decided not to expose them, and because town was literally retarded.

Game thoughts:

Mago, I am sorry, not trying to be a dick here, but you are the most frustrating player ever. You are literally all over the place man. I get being mad that you almost got lynched, but you were not being objective in the slightest. I had told you multiple times even when I was pushing you that I wasn't hell bent on you being scum, but I didn't want a no lynch and you were the best lead. You held that shit over me for the ENTIRE game and never let go of it even when I immediately retracted my scum read on you, and then blamed me for mislynching thoth. Well you just mislynched kohai after I was on the correct wagon. I can be a dick here and say "I told you so" but I would rather you just learn a lesson from that so we don't make these kind of mistakes again. I went over every thought I had in the game and fleshed out every idea. I was never voting something without a solid reason to do so and I was happy to defend any action I made or any thought I had, but no matter what I did you held your grudge against me from day phase 1. There was literally no winning with you. Even if I wasn't converted to TP, I almost don't think I would have cured your poison because you were so anti town in this game, keeping you alive would probably have only muddied the waters more. Sincerely hope you never play that way again.

As for the rest of the town, I don't know how you guys scum read banana. She was in POE but she was lowkey cooking with her pie arguments. And lynching Kohai was kind of lazy when there was so much to read with pie. I made a deal with scum since they turned me into a third party to work with them. I kind of had no choice, I told whiteflame I didn't want to like 5 times, but then I realized they could force my hand and just turn me into a third party and kill me anyway forcing us both to lose. I was still almost tempted to do that and expose them to help town win, but mago was being such a little shit and nobody was being active, plus I owed whiteflame a favor from russian mafia where he scum sided with me as a third party, so in the end I agreed to their plan and helped them. All I really did though was not continue pursuing pie, I even left my vote on him in hopes town would come to their senses and vote pie.

I also had caught onto whiteflame. That was the "conspiracy theory" I was talking about after wryly claimed her mason. Her mason sounded actually legit from a mech standpoint, so I figured if there was two masons, one probably had scum. I was trying to publicly town read whiteflame so he would keep me alive, hoping he would think he could manipulate me if I town read him. When I told him about wanting to lynch pie, he got cagey about it and didn't want to and I was starting to suspect heavily I was right about my conspiracy theory, but then he exposed that he and pie were mafia and about to quit, so they made me a deal to work with them and they would convert me to TP. I reluctantly agreed in the end, because town was playing pretty badly. Like at this point I don't think we would have won as town even if I stayed on course with pie and got him lynched. Yall fell for the manipulation "let me confirm myself" Bullshit so hard. I've seen pie play that game before, you gotta realize if pie is ever doing that, its likely because the game isn't going another day phase lol. Unbelievable..

Oh well fun game, would have rather won with town, but town wasn't on their A game here, not even close. Not even their C tier. Town was cooked, and I was talking to myself or arguing with mago for 90% of it, so yay.

I decided to redesign the setup where character claiming can be permitted. I will retract that rule

Good decision. Anyways, I am burnt on mafia still, but I owe you one for signing up for Ted Lasso, so if you want I'll sign up for this one, or the MU you mentioned, let me know which you would prefer.

Current Games:

Rex- Some Asian shit- DP3

Sign-ups:

Kohai- Legend of Zelda

In the Hopper:

Savant - Andor Mafia

Mag1cman

Thoth

Banana

Magoroth - Corleone Mafia

whiteflame - Frieren Mafia

Lunatic

On Hold:

AnonymousIcon

Wylted - Lulsec

Mikal

Sure. Its just frustrating because my best guess at scum is literally you, and if its not you, then… maybe its Pie, idk, but IMHO it could almost be anyone.

There was 12 players in this game. Surely you can come up with more than just me. Like even if you think I am scum theres gotta be 1-2 more so lets get cooking.

\First of all: I agree with your points on Pie. I too thought Pie’s shtick that there were (2?) scum and one Serial Killer, but I didn’t scumread him super hard for it, it is possible for Town to believe things that are sermingly random or strange. i would like for Pie to explain himself.

It is odd that you think I am scum when I am literally pushing pie, is your theory that we are bussing?

sorry, functioning off of very little sleep. was literally falling asleep at my computer when I typed that last sentence, no idea what I even meant with Wylted being able to teleport. my point was that is Wylted is the only active person in that PoE.

To be honest me and you have been the only consistently active people in this game, and even you were missing for a large part of day phase 2 towards the end. So you could technically say most everyone is inactive. Also your points have been a bit all over the place. Maybe you better get some rest so we can continue this in the morning. Happy to do it now, I work graveyard shift so this is normal hours for me, but for your sake it might be better.

Also another counter point to me being poisoner conspiracy: Do you actually think there is a night kill and a poison ability and town has no counter to this? Because that's actually insane from a balance perspective.

So I was right about your response.

People scumreading you must be on some strong drugs. Right.

Your not on drugs for scum reading me, you are on drugs for lying and making shit up. Like the part about Banana sussing me, she also just called you out on that. It didn't happen.

Okay. Let’s play the game a different way. If you are Town, who is scum? Why should I vote in [Pie, Kohai, Banana]?

I explained my read on pie in post 124, if you haven't read it, and I have a strong suspicion his scum partner is kohai. That said if you want a recap sure.

Bullet points are that pie is acting differently than normal games, IE hasn't scum read any of the veteran players, didn't immediately try to policy lynch the miller suggesting inside information that he knows the miller is town, suggested multiple times there is only two scum and is convinced of a third party, why would we assume that there would be only two scum? Mathematically it makes the most sense for 3 scum in this scenario, and the third party talk is even crazier because why does he assume there even is one? Third parties aren't common in every game, nor was there ever any mention of one existing in this set up by either the mod or a players role, so I don't know why he would jump to that conclusion. And he never tried to suspect kohai or wylted here despite the fact that he counter claims both of them with his slanderer role that takes favor. As banana mentioned this LITERALLY counter claims wylted, since wylted is also even night slanderer apparently. Remember how he harped on wryly and shining being scum for counter claiming each other with that passive? Why is he an exlusion to that rule? And the other reason I scum read him is because he was saying in dp1 that he could carry the town with his role if he got enough favor, but then when he finally reveals his role he is a lynchproof. First of all that requires him to be cooking with his reads and nailing scum left and right, and hes only human. Second of all he's been insanely inactive, so what would giving him favor actually done to help us in the long run? He wasn't even around for the end of day phase lynch last day phase.

If you have a better lynch feel free to garner support for it, but I suggest at least getting some valid reasons for it and backing that up with actual evidence, rather than conjecture and made up stories.

Because, the way I see it, these are all just the inactive players. Do you actually think everyone else is Town?

I never town read everyone what are you talking about? I think it comes down to pie/kohai/wylted/banana, I believe scum is in those four, I could be wrong about some of my town reads, but that's where I am at. One of wylted or pie is scum, and the other is basically town from the CC. I am leaning wylted being townier of the two.

I guess it was in reply to Wryly and not you, but still.

???

I am so lost

It does feel like half the people who got pushed (all of them?) got pushed because they were LHF. I will laugh my ass off if Whiteflame and Lunatic are both scum.

VTL Lunatic

it’s rather suspicious that the person everyone says scumhunted the most basically ended up with townreads on the most active players, and with scumreads on the least active ones. Note that he mentioned the existence of a potential Poisoner well before anyone else did, it makes me suspicious of him.

I don’t see why the hell they would even try to hide who’s who, quite obviously the “Doctor/Bodyguard” is Lunatic, and anyone with an IQ above room temperature in centigrade would be able to figure it out (as Wylted put it a while ago). I think the reason is to give Lunatic some WIFOM so he doesn’t claim Doctor.

Well thanks for outing to everyone im the doctor. It may have been obvious to you and wylted but maybe mafia didn't pick up on that, so thanks for ruining it. Btw pie hinted multiple times that he thought I was the neighborizer and whiteflame the doctor.

Because, why in the hell would a Doctor hint at the existence of a Poisoner, when his role could supposedly heal from Poison and potentially nightkills? He could have one of the most crucial roles in this setup and yet, what he does is virtually out himself to that Poisoner?

1.Saying I have knowledge of a poisoner doesn't mean I am claiming counter to that role. Someone day phase one (I can't remember who) mentioned that they think I was an informed player (a role that gives set up information to the town).

2.You were advocating for a mass claim dp1 remember? If we had followed your plan I would have had to out this information anyway lol.

3.You are the biggest hypocrite ever for this if you think I claimed too much of my role when YOU LITERALLY CLAIMED YOUR ROLE without anyone asking for it. You weren't even close to being lynched at that point, a couple of people had just loosely talked about you being scum.

There is a real chance we are dealing with a Pie/Lunatic/Whiteflame scum team. Pie to build up the idea that because I don’t die tomorrow (healed by none other than Lunatic, obviously), I must be scum. Then Lunatic tries to stall the lynch to buy towncred, they supposedly bus Pie while they’re at it (or maybe he claims 3P at the very end so they “let him live because we need the 3p to help us kill scum”), and voila.

Pie is literally my top scum read, so if you think I am scum just bussing him why not lynch him and pursue your crusade against me later? Or you just are so all over the place you forgot that little tid bit. You an alcoholic? Or just bad memory?

i exhuausted myself typing this. please vote lunatic, nothing in this game makes sense and the idea that we’ve narrowed the PoE onto mysteriously inactive scum is absurd. nobody has had any reason to townread anyone this game; literally the only person I have the slightest reason to townread behaviourally, other than perhaps awesome/maybe banana, is Wylted. Yet somehow we’ve successfully narrowed the PoE after two town mislynches? Gimme a break.

The pie lynch isn't even based on POE so I have no clue where you are coming from with this lol.

also, why the hell does Lunatic townread me all of sudden? Why can’t I be lying about being Poisoned? It’s really weird. You’d think he would have a little more to say about me, maybe push me slightly, be distrustful, yet he has done none of that. Yes, I get believing someone who got poisoned because “why would they lie”, but not an ounce of suspicion? This is strategic.

Because my role pm literally tells me I can counter poisoner, thus I know a poisoner exists. The only way you could be scum is if you were the poisoner and waived it to claim this and "confirm" yourself, which is technically possible yet unlikely. No I am convinced you are town, but semi retarded.

Lunatic’s reads also don’t feel genuine to me. He comes up with a huge wall of text and makes no attempt to explain or reevaluate in light that he was wrong twice.

I am not ashamed of being wrong. Mislynches happen, I don't get demoralized when it does, lynching scum is never an exact science, thats why town usually gets multiple mislynch oppertunities in a game. But I strongly disagree that I never make an attempt to explain my reads, I've done that multiple times when people have questioned my reads. Wryly asked me about my scum reads last day phase and I took a lot of time explaining them to her. And I literally re-evaluated my read on you, something you say I am not doing here, but in the last paragraph suspected me for lmao. See what I mean when I say there is no winning with you?

before anyone says, why would Lunatic kill Mikal? mikal comes across as a rational player and he was probably afraid he would eventually turn against Lunatic once he figured things out.

That's quite the baseless conspiracy there pal.

VTL Lunatic

Final vote. Not unvoting.

On the off-chance that I am wrong about any of you being scum with him, please vote him.

oh, Lunatic will probably say something like “You are being delusional again” or whatever amounts to making me sound like I’m biased against him, he did the same thing with banana I think. Banana suspected him and he raged. But his reaction was quite telling, it implied he was townreading Banana, because why the hell would a town player rage at someone they scumread for scumreading them.

None of this ever happened. I think your on some strong drugs. You should share them, they sound fun.

Bro I'm burned out with family stuff, Pie is slammed at work, many of our players haven't been posting enough. I can't blame you for not having tons of fun with this one

its not even really just the activity though I definitely think it plays a part in it. Would have been nice to have Thoth on his A game here. But like people aren’t hearing what I’m saying or scum read me for it. Mago just will perpetuate ally scum read me no matter what I say or do, and it’s been pulling teeth to get any lynches accomplished. Probably wouldn’t have even got Thoth lynched if it weren’t for the double vote. Sad thing is I think most of the people on both wagons were probably town and scum is probably just letting us hang ourselves becythey can get away with it and farm town cred when we do mislynch.

The only odd thing I've seen is his townread of whiteflame after saying whiteflame was in his POE last DP

whiteflame had to be in the POE because he hadn’t claimed. It would be awkward if I was putting others in the POe for no claims but not him.

I hope on some level you can see the irony and hypocrisy behind you doing the same thing to me that you were accusing me of doing to you in dp1. Have fun. Be the leader you think I failed at. I believe in you. Carry us to victory. I’m gonna spend my time doing something I enjoy because this game is not it.

Just a heads up I probably won’t be too active going forward. My interest in this game is dying fast. Feel like I’m talking to myself or a brick wall half the time. I’ll be around if you ping me but yeah

Also can you full claim? I think all we have from you is the miller part. Whats your other roles and your character?

Actually it might be worth exposing who you gave your other favor to, because we have full claimed now and for some reason the other person hasn't mentioned they got the favor. It might be worth finding out why from said person.

Somebody witnessed Mikal visiting me and apparently he had that ability

The favor stolen from you is what I am referring to. It was likely given to scum since no one has claimed it. Those 2 favor plus one more from supa is the only favor that is unaccounted for.

Pretty sure pie is scum here. He is only really pressuring people he thinks he can secure easy mislynches on, somehow town reads all the vets, normal pie would be hella sus of the other vets. Plus the role is an outlier, strengthener is kind of a common fake claim and the slanderer is kind of a CC by kohai only khoais is more of a theft (which he strangely didn't mention, even though he was harping on wryly/shining cc'ing each other). Like even buying the excuse that pie is busy (I know he genuinely is) like his behavior still feels different even analyzing his active posts. 0 interaction between him and kohai. I think his vote on awesome was to look town last day phase, but kohai hasn't done a lot, and I feel like there would be a lot of focus on him from pie but there isn't. I am seeing a scum team here. Pie being adamant about 2 scum and a third party suggests inside information as well, I think that is a pretty wild conclusion to jump to otherwise. Lastly in post 172 of dp1 pie said if he had enough favor he could carry the game. I was thinking he had some really amazing role here that could help him break the game, but the only thing I can fathom to think of that he could be referring to is his lynchproof, which 1. Requires him to be way more active and have amazing reads to use 2. Ignores the fact that his slanderer role could actually harmfully impact the town. And like I said earlier, I think scum probably have some pretty powerful roles based on how strong the town appears to be. Meaning that asking for favor would probably be a viable strategy from scum, not only for that but because it means that favor isn't getting fed into town power roles. It just doesn't make sense to ask for favor if you know your going to be busy and not able to post like anything if you think you are going to carry town to victory with a lynchproof lol.

vtl pie

btw I started out with 4 favor and received none NP1 because I am sadly unappreciated in my time. though in hindsight favor should've gone to Thoth, who apparently does not share my anxiety about everyone hating me if I ghost on a game

I think the real problem is stretching a game to 12 players when its hard enough to get 9 players in a game these days. A lot of people don't really have the time and energy to be here, and only signed up out of wanting to do a favor for rex I think lol.

No one has claimed receiving two favor stolen from wylted yet, so I am assuming it was given to scum.

Full Claims: https://docs.google.com/document/d/16-c4DFpSyTrkpAlp2t1Ere6zAxCVhgdp4JPuzgXmHBg/edit?usp=sharing

Dead:

Mikal - Empress Dowager of the Great Qing Niohuru Zhenhuan - 1x Jailkeeper, 1x Rolestopper, 1x High Adjudicator (removes favor and places it to another person) - Town (killed np1)

Thoth- Consort Ying- Even Night Director, Odd Night Bomb, Bulletproof - Town (Lynched dp2)

Claims and Info:

Vader- Emperor- Cannot die, distributes favor to the Harem each night.

12, 11, 10 – four favor 1,1,1,1 or 2,1,1

9, 8, 7 – three favor 1,1,1 or 2,1

6, 5, 4 – two favor 1,1

3 favor 1

Wylted-????- Post 41 , dp1-  Miller upon gaining a certain amount of favor, post 15, 30 dp1.

Magoroth- Bai Ruji- Watcher/Roleblocker/Vengeful (Rank: Concubine, starting 2 favor) - Post 272, 274, 297, dp1. Clarified by Shining in post 77, dp2. (Poisoned and lost watcher ability np1) Post 3, 259 dp2.

Shining- Fuca Longhua- Rolecop- Identified Magoroth np1 - Post 77 dp2, Has a passive called “careful” that tells him what roles visit him. He was visited by a shadow poisoner but not poisoned- post 165, 245, 261 dp2. 

Wryly- Consort Shu- Odd Night Tracker if empress dowager is alive (Tracked mikal to wylted np1) Has a passive called ‘Perceptive” allowing her to see roles that visit her - Post 106, 260 dp2. Has a 1x Even night Cypher at Noble Consort that enables communication between mikal and vader. - Post 310, dp2.

Banana- Consort Rong, the Legendary Perfumed Consort, post 429, dp2- Odd night siren (can veto emperor night actions), Even night Night Benefactor (Gives favor). Passive is Ascetic.

Kohai- Noble Consort Xian- Odd night benefactor (gives favor), even night adjudicator (takes favor and gives it to another), Popular at full rank. Gave one favor to whiteflame - Post 366, dp1

iLikePie5- Noble Consort Hui- Odd night Strengthener (strengthened whiteflame np1), Even night slanderer, passive is lynchproof - Post 72, dp3.

Lunatic- ???- ????- Our full claim is post 29, dp3.

Whiteflame- ???- ????- Our full claim is post 29, dp3.

Known Favor distribution:

Mikal took 2 favor from wylted and gave it to an unknown player.

Vader claims he gave 1 favor to Mikal and 1 favor to wylted. 1 favor from vader is still publicly unaccounted for as well as 2 favor from wylted that mikal handed someone.

Whiteflame received one favor from kohai.

Lunatic received one favor from ???

I dislike Banana’s Siren claim. Here is what a Siren does per MafiaUniverse. Funny enough it’s the role of the day on MU today. This is what Siren does:

”The Siren is an independently aligned player who may submit one name each night. If the named player visits the Siren on that night, they die. Once the Siren successfully kills two players in this fashion, they win the game.”

If you are basing this off of role name, that's not a super convincing argument, because im pretty sure a mason recruiter isn't a "Neighborizer". Not sure where Rex finds the names for his role pm's but they are definitely not standard. Also shining and wryly both have two different names for the same passive that lets them identify roles who visit them (perceptive, and careful). I have never even heard of a slanderer or benefactor or adjudicator either. Magoroths vengeful is basically just a hunter.