Lunatic

I’m not arguing that I played it well or even that I had a good scumread, I just don’t understand the mentality that it made the most sense to actively pursue a NL.

Agree to disagree IG.

Again, disagree that this required any kind of theme knowledge, just looking up the character list and seeing who matches those details. The people involved in uncovering the details of his role last DP had some insight into theme, but anyone who paid attention would have picked up on those details, and a two-person scum team definitely would. I suspect Rex did.

And people who are more likely to analyze the theme and focus on behavior are like... maybe pie only. It's safe to say you and Thoth just knew the theme to pick up on it.

It's weird, I am both town reading and scum reading whiteflame equally. I can't really pin point it, but his behavior does feel different, but different isn't always a bad thing. He's way more aggressive this game, but that tends to happen when you are more confident with the theme. I could see him being aggressive as town or scum. It doesn't help that I am pretty sure scum is someone who has theme knowledge though. I don't see him pressuring players like pie early, and me as well semi early as scum though, its kind of a brave move when he as scum could look for easier mislynch targets. That said it could all be a ploy for towncred, maybe he knows or thinks he will be townread for his aggression? I am more looking at it for authenticity, so far it does look genuine so I am not eager to jump the gun on on a scum read for him. I wanna see this wierd evidence thoth has against pie however as well. Pie is not someone who I think has extensive theme knowledge but I think he is and has shown he is willing to do the relevant amount of theme research here as scum to put himself in the category of being capable of finding power roles in soft claims like Kohai. I still dont think vader was capable of that, which might look townie for him. The self silencing play I think is so talked about as a scum play that its almost suicide to commit. Its something I would expect more of players like mikal, not vader.

Anyways, my lynch pool is still between those three players, thoth, wf, and pie, I am hoping we can get some further developments to help my reads on these players.

As for Luna, I'm a little more uncertain. He could be one of the three members of Huntr/x, the pool of which has already been publicly reduced by Thoth's softclaim. There's a more than decent chance that he's Celine. Far lower chance that he's Mi-yeong Ryu for reasons I mentioned last DP (barely a character, only exists in Rumi's backstory). I'm less concerned at this point about the risk of having a member of Huntr/x claim (we're presumably at 4-1 and it could be a fake claim anyway), so I'm willing to pursue him since there are more options on the table and I'd like to nail him down.

VTL Luna

I don't really care, I'll character claim. I am Celine.

Ya I assume Supa was the one that was roleblocked? But he was also silenced? Ofc passive roles wouldn’t know either

Hard to say, and I assume there are multiple passive roles.

still don't get this perspective. I'm consistently overcautious when it comes to lynches on DP1, but I didn't see anyone suggesting a NL DP1 and if someone had, I would have pushed back. 

There wasn't any serious discussion about who to lynch until the EOD.

he scenario we all believed was plausible was 1 scum, 1 TP. That would have brought us to 4-1-1. That may not be LYLO, but given that we necessarily wouldn't know the wincon of the TP, it very well could have functioned in the same way, meaning we could still have been one mislynch away from game over. Sure, there was a risk of a mislynch DP1, but I'd much rather have gotten a lynch off and shaved down POE than just sat on our hands and hoped for the best.

If that's the case you shouldn't have waited until EOD to pursue any major suspicions.

So you specifically asked him if players would receive that message and not whether they'd receive any message? That isn't what you said initially (you said they "would not receive a message") and it's an odd way to frame that question.

Verbatim I asked him "Do you tell people if they are roleblocked?" and he responded "I do not say 'you were roleblocked'" which indicated that response to me.

Again, though, the information I pointed to came out during the DP. Whether scum know anything about the show is largely irrelevant to whether they knew who Kohai was. It was pretty damn obvious that the character named Healer Han (Pie gave a full character list) was a) the only one with the name of a Chinese dynasty (Thoth said as much) b) the only character whose name would give away their role (Kohai gave that away). It doesn't take someone with extensive knowledge about the show to put the pieces together.

I didn't pick up on it, and I doubt vader did either is all I am saying. So the fact that the remaining pool knows something about the theme and also picked up on that and he also died indicates to me that its obvious to people who give a shit about the theme, which includes at least one mafia member.

Less amenable to this position. Going into this DP, we should have expected one NK. The fact that we got scum had everything to do with Rex's role, something we couldn't have known coming into it. So supporting a NL last DP would have been extremely odd since you would have expected a 4-2 or 4-1-1, i.e. either LYLO or awfully close to it with a TP. Going to need you to explain why a NL made sense as strategy.

It was discussed that 2 mislynches would be game over if there was two scum. We theorized there was one, but didn't know. Knowing there is two I can say in hindsight it was definitely a good idea, but we didn't have very many strong conclusions where I had left on in the game, so I would have probably erred on the side of caution either way, leaning towards a no lynch.

Just asked and he told me that anyone whose night actions failed would be informed that they failed. That's not a direct statement that they'd been RB'd, but that is a message they would receive if they had been. Not sure where you got this.

I was told that magic does not give a "you were roleblocked" message.

...why? Pie literally laid out all the plausible characters in this game and Thoth pretty blatant about his character being the name of a Chinese dynasty. Not hard to figure out who Kohai was and intuit his role. And by "our" I'm guessing you mean Pie.

Thats why I said I think it would be you pie or thoth. Vader I doubt knows a ton about the show, and I already said I didn't as well.

Whiteflames early aggression against our reads townie to me

could be Thoth as well

I think scum is an experienced player who either knows the theme or did research in the theme based on the night kill. My guess is it’s our or Whiteflame atm

I confirmed roleblocked players would not receive a message

Sorry for missing EOD but it’s also not that surprising considering I’m usually sleeping in the morning and up in the evening and all night. That said I am not sure we really had a ton to go off of anyway and I likely would have supported a no lynch in a seven player game anyway. As pie pointed out we still have two mislynches which is an ideal spot unless mafia have some crazy roles.

i will say that I will probably be a lil skeptical of whoever ends up claiming roleblocked (I actually may have been the one to be roleblocked but idk, because I don’t think mharman tells you if your roleblocked) because if I was scum and knew my role would be outed publicly at the end of dp2 I would want to use that to farm town cred. But it’s not like solid proof the roleblocked person is scum obviously just something I will be a little weary of.

Gut scum read is Thoth. Some of his posts just read as TMI to me. Especially the one about 2 scum but they can’t communicate

I was a little curious about that conclusion jump as well.

I agree. 3-1-1 makes the most sense. Don’t necessarily agree with the hard fast rule, but logically it makes sense that he would follow it.

I think you mean 5 - 1 - 1 but yeah, I agree

I am a female

Even if there is just one scum, they're likely interacting with Mharman through Discord regardless, but I think the point of this is just to prevent people from using the timing of Discord sign-ons as a basis for sussing anyone. Whether there's a valid basis for thinking that would lead to a scum lynch is besides the point.

Thats a fair assessment.

With one scum and a third party, the third party could in some sense be an independent scum, depending on wincon.

True, hard to say I guess. Just something to think about, but shouldn't really impact how we play too much.

What the heck is your profile picture btw

Interesting logic, but in a game with this few players, it's reasonable to expect that normal principles have gone out the window. I did realize earlier that the game could potentially be over by the end of day 2 and was not thrilled by it, but Magic might have built in some other mechanic(s) that could keep the game going for longer despite having two scum. I also feel that having one scum rather defeats the purpose of Mafia being a game of an informed group versus an uninformed group, although that's not to say that Magic feels as strongly about it as I do.

Yeah and i am kind of wondering why he would tell people to put their discords on private if there was only one scum, but it could just be because he sent out pm's via discord and people could read into timing of night action submission, etc. Idk. Hard to say one way or the other, I can see there being two scum or one and a third party though.

https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/12728-gameshow-mafia-endgame?page=5&post_number=140

Here is the post I am referencing btw if anyone is interested in my logic.

Mharman said this back in May, but he tends to be pretty consistent with his modding when it comes to numbers:

"the rule i operate with is that town should be able to survive as many mislynches as there are scum. Vaarka taught me that, so I refer to it as Vaarka's Golden Rule (he may have been taught by someone else, but idk who). I taught the concept to Whiteflame and Casey btw. 9players, 2 scum. 13 players, 3 scum. 17, 4. So 5,9,13,17,etc is a sequence in those numbers halfway between numbers in a sequence, I put 0.5 scum, a tp.

So since two mislynches equals a town loss, going by mharmans logic, I am guessing there could be one scum and one third party, since this game is an in between number of that sequence.

There is the off chance that mharman didn't stick to that logic, so take this with a grain of salt, but if mharman is consistent with this then there is probably just one scum (with a fake claim) and one third party (not sure if he would have given a third party a fake claim, and he didn't clarify in the OP). So characters claims may be useless here, or at best only might expose a third party.

So its been a month since we played mafia guys. Does anyone still remember how to play this game?

My girlfriend sings that soda pop song all the friggin time

I was just tired that night but I wasn’t really like jumping to finish the movie either. It was just alright, as mharman said.

Hi, idk anything about this theme, and it’s dumb that we keep doing anime and random Korean stuff

Agreed but we both know that this will always be 90 percent of all themes lol

I have seen like a little more than half of this movie, I tried watching it at work one night to see what the hype was about. I think I fell asleep like 70% through. I think I got the jist of it though. I wont remember character names of the top of my head but if a character was mentioned and I googled them I would be able to be like "oh yeah I remember that one" etc.

Anyways, I don't think anyone here has been here long enough to remember when I talked about this, but I am my favorite role ever. That's my soft for now, and probably un needed, but I see no harm as I doubt anyone here actually knows what my favorite role is.

considering mafia has been stalled for a month im down

could it possibly start with 7

Would you drive around town in a car that had three missing tires?

Nah but I would probably search for a mechanic instead of hoping the wheels will just show up without any effort on my part.

could it possibly start with 7

1. Vader

2. Pie

3. Kohai

4. Lunatic

5. Casey_Risk

6. RexFavilla

7.

8.

9.

10.

I don’t think alignment changing roles like Yakuzas are OP and tailors can be swingy sure but if that’s their only role it removes some power. A tailor can’t roleblock or lawyer or whatever which makes its only utility manipulation. Problem is that players try to scum hunt without using behavior and rely on town confirming players with town roles so much, which is why these roles are considered bastard because players are lazy.