Lunatic

going to bed, night yall.

Because I wanted to know if your claim would move the needle for me in a positive direction and because I thought it might. I wasn't sure what your claim was, but I figured it wasn't Vanilla. You giving that claim didn't change my reads because that claim didn't change anything about my perception of you.

Yeah your tunneling, but wanting to save face about it and appear open minded, yet you also don't want to lynch your top scum read because your afraid you won't get support for it. Makes sense.

There's no way you are town here man.

I didn't say you have reads bouncing all over the place. I said that I don't like much of the reasoning you've used for sussing other players throughout this game. You've dropped some of those points, but they're hard for me to ignore.

Considering I only ever had a light read on thoth before you, I don't really see what you mean about having bad reasoning for sussing other players lol.

As for a town pool, frankly, I don't have one. Pie's null to me. His scumhunting against Thoth looks pretty good, but I've seen him behave this way as scum and town before so my read on him may shift depending on how Thoth flips. Vader can't say anything and didn't say much last DP, so he's null to me too. That leaves you and Thoth, both of whom I have points against. Could you be town? Sure. Is there anything that you've done that specifically stands out to me as townie? Not much. These responses have been the towniest part of your play yet, and they're making me question my read a bit.

So despite having the most "weight" against me (or thoth I guess) you are still willing to drop that because you don't think you have support? Question, how do you lynch scum if you aren't capable of trying to convince others of your reads to accomplish said lynch? Why are you willing to risk people that have townier cases for them (in your "mind")?

As for lynching you, I've recognized now several times that that probably isn't happening. I don't think it's likely that Vader voted for you, I don't think Pie will either, and I can see reasons to lynch either you or Thoth. If/when it comes down to it, I'll support the option that ends with a lynch over one that ends with a deadlock. If you think that's off behavior for me, so be it.

Why isn't the lynch on me happening? Why are you not capable of leading a lynch on someone you clearly think is scummy mr. aggressive?

 Softclaiming your role early doesn't really change anything for me, either, since you would have received the full fake claim as scum and made this call early.

If my claim means nothing then WHY the FUCK did you ask for it?

Lol, alright then. Nothing's changed about my behavior since your last post where you felt extremely mixed about me, the only difference is that you feel slighted that I'm still sussing you after you gave up your role claim.

It was the unvote where you said you were ONLY unvoting me because you wanted to prevent a quick hammer and then waffling about picking a lane on me because you doubt you could get the support for it. You are being aggressive, but don't want to use your aggression to lead a proper lynch? Literally makes no sense. You are throwing mud to see what will stick and see who takes the bait. That way in the off chance someone like thoth or pie does wagon a read on me last minute you can get a quick easy lynch off. But your argument for sussing me is pretty inherently bad in the first place, especially considering I have soft claimed my role early and character and role claimed immediately when asked. I made a thread on DDO shortly before it closed detailing how vanilla was the best role in the game because you can play however you want without risk of being being killed, and dying is a direct laugh at mafia. Also you can use the role to bait the night kill, or just scum hunt and scum have no incentive to kill you. Its my favorite role and my best games tend to be when I am vanilla, for example, terraria mafia.

I said it was odd, explained my reasoning referencing the connection to being Vanilla, and then you left all that out and instead claimed that my issue was with your character claim, which it has never been. So yes, I'd call that a bad faith reading. And I've been very specific regarding the reasons I'm sussing you behaviorally already (see post #114) as well as explaining why Celine being Vanilla doesn't sit well with me. Your compliance is appreciated, but no, it doesn't make you more likely to be town just because you did as requested. If you want to believe I'm going to try something with roughly 4 hours left in the DP and my vote on absolutely no one, that's your choice. I'm almost certainly going to be overruled by Pie and Thoth is probably going to end up being the lynch. And if all this changes your gut read on me, I honestly don't care.

in 114 you said I have been sussing players for shoddy reasoning, which isn't true. I said I would be suspicious of anyone who claimed to be roleblocked and a couple people even agreed with me about that, and I had provided reasoning for that stance. That said I didn't really throw shade at tons of people other than mentioning a gun to your head scum read on a thoth behavior point. You trying to spin this as me having reads bouncing all over the place is wild.

Secondly you've had your mind made up about me since you first placed your vote on me and keep finding reasons to back justify a lynch on me. It shows that you were never interested in town reading me, which as town I think you would have at least acknowledged some points to where I could be town. I know you, you are usually very reasonable as town and weigh both sides. I have reasons to believe every person here has a town case for them. You are only looking at lynch potential which shows that you aren't trying to figure out a town pool. Specifically with me, no matter how compliant I have been (Literally could have lied or resisted claiming and justified the sh1t out of it) you wont retract a scum read on me or even consider me being town. This is not resembling your town behavior in the slightest. The fact I am consistently noting differences in behavior from you makes me feel like you have to be scum at this point. If you think I am scum you should be lynching me. Period. This waffling about not lynching me because you doubt you could get support for it demonstrates that you are willing to no lynch. If I am scum you should want to lynch me and not waste time elsewhere.

VTL whiteflame. Probably isnt going to happen, but I dont see town whiteflame scum reading me when I have been perfectly compliant and actually haven't done anything scummy. This aggression feels pointed and oppertunistic, not whiteflames usual style. I don't think he gets an excuse for a behavioral change this game. This seems off. I have to log soon to sleep.

Now this is just a bad faith reading of what I said. I said previously that your claiming Celine as a character makes sense. I still hold to that. You conveniently quoted only two sentences of what I said above that leave out what I viewed as the oddity: the attached role claim. If you have some justification that makes sense of why she's Vanilla, be my guest and provide it.

I was literally just given a description of my character (rumi's adoptive mother) and told I was vanilla. There was no link or justification provided. And its not a bad faith reading, you literally said it was odd, after having previously voted me (only stating you unvoted me to prevent a quick hammer) so despite being perfectly compliant you are still scum reading me, and its a bit non sense. I am clearly your intended target this day phase. I feel like you are going to try some sh1t soon with 7 hours left knowing I will be asleep to result in my quick lynch. I am retracting my gut read on your actions being town motivated at this point.

To me, the Celine claim comes off as odd. She's a former member of the group previous to Huntr/x and her main focus in the plot is on keeping Rumi's identity as a half demon secret. 

Thats wild considering you mentioned my character being likely in this game like 10 times over the last two day phases, and even guessed that I was this character multiple times. Now its odd lol

Also, looking for a claim from you before the DP's out.

https://tarateaspoon.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/Vanilla-Ice-Cream-cone-glass-sq.jpeg

I figured as much regarding your character. Not familiar with that role - any justification? I'll check back on before I knock off for the night.

sounds like soldier

I'm Mira. My role is that town wins if I and one scum are the only players alive.

You are soldier?

Generally speaking, if someone has an idea about what's going on in the game, then sharing that idea is probably good because it can spark discussion and maybe lead to other people figuring out things that nobody would have figured out otherwise. If I think that the reasons to keep a thought to myself outweigh the reasons to share it, then I do not share it.

I am not saying not to do that, just trying to interpret whether its actual town thought sharing or mafia pretending to guess mechanics they already know about, which is something scum do frequently.

I like to think that my thoughts are so good that it would be stealing you deprive you of them. That aside, does TMI mean that you seem to know more than a townie should, that you are sharing things that could help scum, or both?

Oversharing in general thinking it will make you look smart and farm you town cred when it actually might hint that you know things you should know and are coming to conclusions about things you wouldn't otherwise know; IE the main reason pie is scum reading you.

I'm not likely to analyze the theme?

You are and thats literally why you are in the scum pool. smh

Your insults don't phase me douche.

That was literally the opposite of an insult.

Only under the assumption I am scum, which I am not, so it definitely is.

https://www.debatecraft.com/mafia/c/active-games/posts/1r/k-pop-demon-hunters-mafia---dp1?page=4

Post 103

Gun to your head, who do you want to lynch right now

Probably thoth for over-defensiveness, that comment he made about thinking he would be lynched for something relatively small. Then again its thoth. He tends to post every little thought that enters his head which I tend to read as TMI and scummy

I'm not sure I buy it. You're smarter than that.

Your insults don't phase me douche.

I’m not arguing that I played it well or even that I had a good scumread, I just don’t understand the mentality that it made the most sense to actively pursue a NL.

Agree to disagree IG.

Again, disagree that this required any kind of theme knowledge, just looking up the character list and seeing who matches those details. The people involved in uncovering the details of his role last DP had some insight into theme, but anyone who paid attention would have picked up on those details, and a two-person scum team definitely would. I suspect Rex did.

And people who are more likely to analyze the theme and focus on behavior are like... maybe pie only. It's safe to say you and Thoth just knew the theme to pick up on it.

It's weird, I am both town reading and scum reading whiteflame equally. I can't really pin point it, but his behavior does feel different, but different isn't always a bad thing. He's way more aggressive this game, but that tends to happen when you are more confident with the theme. I could see him being aggressive as town or scum. It doesn't help that I am pretty sure scum is someone who has theme knowledge though. I don't see him pressuring players like pie early, and me as well semi early as scum though, its kind of a brave move when he as scum could look for easier mislynch targets. That said it could all be a ploy for towncred, maybe he knows or thinks he will be townread for his aggression? I am more looking at it for authenticity, so far it does look genuine so I am not eager to jump the gun on on a scum read for him. I wanna see this wierd evidence thoth has against pie however as well. Pie is not someone who I think has extensive theme knowledge but I think he is and has shown he is willing to do the relevant amount of theme research here as scum to put himself in the category of being capable of finding power roles in soft claims like Kohai. I still dont think vader was capable of that, which might look townie for him. The self silencing play I think is so talked about as a scum play that its almost suicide to commit. Its something I would expect more of players like mikal, not vader.

Anyways, my lynch pool is still between those three players, thoth, wf, and pie, I am hoping we can get some further developments to help my reads on these players.

As for Luna, I'm a little more uncertain. He could be one of the three members of Huntr/x, the pool of which has already been publicly reduced by Thoth's softclaim. There's a more than decent chance that he's Celine. Far lower chance that he's Mi-yeong Ryu for reasons I mentioned last DP (barely a character, only exists in Rumi's backstory). I'm less concerned at this point about the risk of having a member of Huntr/x claim (we're presumably at 4-1 and it could be a fake claim anyway), so I'm willing to pursue him since there are more options on the table and I'd like to nail him down.

VTL Luna

I don't really care, I'll character claim. I am Celine.

Ya I assume Supa was the one that was roleblocked? But he was also silenced? Ofc passive roles wouldn’t know either

Hard to say, and I assume there are multiple passive roles.

still don't get this perspective. I'm consistently overcautious when it comes to lynches on DP1, but I didn't see anyone suggesting a NL DP1 and if someone had, I would have pushed back. 

There wasn't any serious discussion about who to lynch until the EOD.

he scenario we all believed was plausible was 1 scum, 1 TP. That would have brought us to 4-1-1. That may not be LYLO, but given that we necessarily wouldn't know the wincon of the TP, it very well could have functioned in the same way, meaning we could still have been one mislynch away from game over. Sure, there was a risk of a mislynch DP1, but I'd much rather have gotten a lynch off and shaved down POE than just sat on our hands and hoped for the best.

If that's the case you shouldn't have waited until EOD to pursue any major suspicions.

So you specifically asked him if players would receive that message and not whether they'd receive any message? That isn't what you said initially (you said they "would not receive a message") and it's an odd way to frame that question.

Verbatim I asked him "Do you tell people if they are roleblocked?" and he responded "I do not say 'you were roleblocked'" which indicated that response to me.

Again, though, the information I pointed to came out during the DP. Whether scum know anything about the show is largely irrelevant to whether they knew who Kohai was. It was pretty damn obvious that the character named Healer Han (Pie gave a full character list) was a) the only one with the name of a Chinese dynasty (Thoth said as much) b) the only character whose name would give away their role (Kohai gave that away). It doesn't take someone with extensive knowledge about the show to put the pieces together.

I didn't pick up on it, and I doubt vader did either is all I am saying. So the fact that the remaining pool knows something about the theme and also picked up on that and he also died indicates to me that its obvious to people who give a shit about the theme, which includes at least one mafia member.

Less amenable to this position. Going into this DP, we should have expected one NK. The fact that we got scum had everything to do with Rex's role, something we couldn't have known coming into it. So supporting a NL last DP would have been extremely odd since you would have expected a 4-2 or 4-1-1, i.e. either LYLO or awfully close to it with a TP. Going to need you to explain why a NL made sense as strategy.

It was discussed that 2 mislynches would be game over if there was two scum. We theorized there was one, but didn't know. Knowing there is two I can say in hindsight it was definitely a good idea, but we didn't have very many strong conclusions where I had left on in the game, so I would have probably erred on the side of caution either way, leaning towards a no lynch.

Just asked and he told me that anyone whose night actions failed would be informed that they failed. That's not a direct statement that they'd been RB'd, but that is a message they would receive if they had been. Not sure where you got this.

I was told that magic does not give a "you were roleblocked" message.

...why? Pie literally laid out all the plausible characters in this game and Thoth pretty blatant about his character being the name of a Chinese dynasty. Not hard to figure out who Kohai was and intuit his role. And by "our" I'm guessing you mean Pie.

Thats why I said I think it would be you pie or thoth. Vader I doubt knows a ton about the show, and I already said I didn't as well.

Whiteflames early aggression against our reads townie to me

could be Thoth as well

I think scum is an experienced player who either knows the theme or did research in the theme based on the night kill. My guess is it’s our or Whiteflame atm

I confirmed roleblocked players would not receive a message

Sorry for missing EOD but it’s also not that surprising considering I’m usually sleeping in the morning and up in the evening and all night. That said I am not sure we really had a ton to go off of anyway and I likely would have supported a no lynch in a seven player game anyway. As pie pointed out we still have two mislynches which is an ideal spot unless mafia have some crazy roles.

i will say that I will probably be a lil skeptical of whoever ends up claiming roleblocked (I actually may have been the one to be roleblocked but idk, because I don’t think mharman tells you if your roleblocked) because if I was scum and knew my role would be outed publicly at the end of dp2 I would want to use that to farm town cred. But it’s not like solid proof the roleblocked person is scum obviously just something I will be a little weary of.

Gut scum read is Thoth. Some of his posts just read as TMI to me. Especially the one about 2 scum but they can’t communicate

I was a little curious about that conclusion jump as well.