I think Whiteflame’s argument is sound. I don’t think the answer back there was as obvious as Lunatic has said, so I support the draw.
But going forward, I support a definition that is purely based on the numbers.
I think Whiteflame’s argument is sound. I don’t think the answer back there was as obvious as Lunatic has said, so I support the draw.
But going forward, I support a definition that is purely based on the numbers.
Originally Posted by whiteflame on 7/9/2026 at 8:51 AM (post #25)
Originally Posted by Mag1cman on 7/9/2026 at 8:46 AM (post #24)
...except that wouldn't have changed our night actions at all. FYI, I didn't believe you, but even if we did, we still would have at least tried to Redirect you. Even if it would have failed, there was no point in just not using it and there was literally nothing else stopping us from performing a successful NK. Maybe Banana could have tried to claim that she had a hidden protective role that we also had to stop, but neither of us would have bought it and the outcome would have been the same.
Sure, but the host can’t be sure of that. Again, just the possibility of one of you two getting lazy because of the bluff, is enough for it to come down to the night phase. So from the host perspective, it can’t be MYLO under that more complex definition.
Having it come down to the night phase is fine, I don't care about that. If you want to argue that the NP should have been processed before a winner was declared, I'm cool with that. My issue is with changing the terms under which Wryly's role ceased to function by considering your role as a plausible way to extend the game. Especially if we're considering bluffs, I'll just start claiming a hidden protective role when we're at MYLO in any game where there's a role that ceases to function at MYLO. That way, I can ensure it never becomes MYLO because there will always be some doubt.
fyi I edited that comment above, realizing I had more to say
I don’t think there was a changing of the terms. It wasn’t clear to begin with because MYLO/LYLO wasn’t definitively defined.
If you want to argue that the MYLO/LYLO definition should be purely based on numbers, and never include roles, because of the complexities of the definition that includes the game’s roles, then you have a point worth considering. But in my opinion (which is biased, yes), that should be resolved for future games.
I support the draw.
...except that wouldn't have changed our night actions at all. FYI, I didn't believe you, but even if we did, we still would have at least tried to Redirect you. Even if it would have failed, there was no point in just not using it and there was literally nothing else stopping us from performing a successful NK. Maybe Banana could have tried to claim that she had a hidden protective role that we also had to stop, but neither of us would have bought it and the outcome would have been the same.
Sure, but the host can’t be sure of that. Again, just the possibility of one of you two getting lazy because of the bluff, is enough for it to come down to the night phase. So from the host perspective, it can’t be MYLO under that more complex definition.
I don't think that's your point, though. It's not about this specific game or how it would have played out, it's about the ability to bluff and introduce uncertainty that the mafia team has to juggle during the NP. You create a possibility that something unknown or unmanageable is in play and that could change scum behaviors which could also change the outcome of the game. I don't think that applies here, but fair point that it is something that could apply in future games.
Kohai needed to make a ruling based on a policy, based on a definition of MYLO. The fact that my point stands in general, means that policy of not factoring in win-securing plays would be affirmed under the more complex definition, even in this game.
If we had lynched between me & WF DP2 instead of no lynching we had a 50/50 chance of winning the game.
Putting two killing roles in this game was retarded
Your fourth point is exactly why I felt the VTNL was safe. I figured the reason for the 10th player was to accommodate for the vigilante, and nothing more. 9/10 times VTNLing is the correct play in a 6v2 like that. We ran into the 1.
Your argument was that even if the definition of MYLO/LYLO included roles, you had the guaranteed play to win to win the game.
That argument hinges on town being honest about their roles. Town can play mind games. The point of my bluff was to introduce uncertainty.
You see while there was a winning play, said uncertainty means there’s no guarantee mafia makes said winning play. Considering the fact that you believed me in the last DP, there’s a possibility you would not have even tried to rb or redirect me. Just the possibility is enough, from a host perspective.
This means the game still came down to the night phase, if Wryly were quicklynched.
Therefore, *if* the definition of MYLO/LYLO includes roles, then that DP was not MYLO/LYLO.
If it is purely based on numbers, my argument isn’t relevant. But the reason for the bluff was to demonstrate the argument, to prevent you from having a pinch and winning under both definitions.
Originally Posted by Lunatic on 7/9/2026 at 12:07 AM (post #151)
Originally Posted by Mag1cman on 7/8/2026 at 10:04 PM (post #148)
Originally Posted by Lunatic on 7/8/2026 at 11:59 PM (post #146)
Originally Posted by Mag1cman on 7/8/2026 at 9:54 PM (post #141)
Originally Posted by Lunatic on 7/8/2026 at 11:45 PM (post #136)
Originally Posted by Mag1cman on 7/8/2026 at 9:42 PM (post #132)
Originally Posted by Lunatic on 7/8/2026 at 11:34 PM (post #121)
Originally Posted by Mag1cman on 7/8/2026 at 9:31 PM (post #118)
If it’s two scum and no TP, then it is MYLO
MislYnch = LOse
I guess on a technicality some roles could make it not MYLO if mafia makes the wrong plays.
That’s why.
My doctor can’t be roleblocked or redirected. I hid that. So mafia does actually have to guess who I protect it. So I can block a kill and therefore its not MYLO.
Yeah even if the doctor can’t be stopped it should be mylo, but I guess there’s a sneaking possible you calculate and guess who we kill tonight. We can always gamble that choice to make an official decision but at that point it’s just a Russian roulette
If we define MYLO as any 4-2 situation, then it is. But if the definition of MYLO takes roles into accounts, then any doctor present means 4-2 isn’t technically MYLO. In this game there’s not even a perfect play you can make to guarantee the NK, so it really does come down to the protect mind games and therefore not MYLO by the latter definition of MYLO.
If MYLO still means mislynch and lose, and the mislynch causes us to kill someone you fail to protect and you lose, than a mislynch resulted in a loss
yeah but if the mislynch results in me blocking the kill in the night, then it’s still game on
You can’t post justify mylo though lol. It’s either mylo or it isnt
my point is that *if* the definition of MYLO takes roles into account, then this isn’t MYLO. How is that post hoc justification?
Does the definition of mylo take roles into account? Historically it hasn’t
Well, have we had a situation like this come up before? I don’t know.
DCraft needs an ecumenical council on the definition of MyLO and LYLO lol
Originally Posted by Lunatic on 7/8/2026 at 11:59 PM (post #146)
Originally Posted by Mag1cman on 7/8/2026 at 9:54 PM (post #141)
Originally Posted by Lunatic on 7/8/2026 at 11:45 PM (post #136)
Originally Posted by Mag1cman on 7/8/2026 at 9:42 PM (post #132)
Originally Posted by Lunatic on 7/8/2026 at 11:34 PM (post #121)
Originally Posted by Mag1cman on 7/8/2026 at 9:31 PM (post #118)
If it’s two scum and no TP, then it is MYLO
MislYnch = LOse
I guess on a technicality some roles could make it not MYLO if mafia makes the wrong plays.
That’s why.
My doctor can’t be roleblocked or redirected. I hid that. So mafia does actually have to guess who I protect it. So I can block a kill and therefore its not MYLO.
Yeah even if the doctor can’t be stopped it should be mylo, but I guess there’s a sneaking possible you calculate and guess who we kill tonight. We can always gamble that choice to make an official decision but at that point it’s just a Russian roulette
If we define MYLO as any 4-2 situation, then it is. But if the definition of MYLO takes roles into accounts, then any doctor present means 4-2 isn’t technically MYLO. In this game there’s not even a perfect play you can make to guarantee the NK, so it really does come down to the protect mind games and therefore not MYLO by the latter definition of MYLO.
If MYLO still means mislynch and lose, and the mislynch causes us to kill someone you fail to protect and you lose, than a mislynch resulted in a loss
yeah but if the mislynch results in me blocking the kill in the night, then it’s still game on
You can’t post justify mylo though lol. It’s either mylo or it isnt
my point is that *if* the definition of MYLO takes roles into account, then this isn’t MYLO. How is that post hoc justification?
Originally Posted by Lunatic on 7/8/2026 at 11:45 PM (post #136)
Originally Posted by Mag1cman on 7/8/2026 at 9:42 PM (post #132)
Originally Posted by Lunatic on 7/8/2026 at 11:34 PM (post #121)
Originally Posted by Mag1cman on 7/8/2026 at 9:31 PM (post #118)
If it’s two scum and no TP, then it is MYLO
MislYnch = LOse
I guess on a technicality some roles could make it not MYLO if mafia makes the wrong plays.
That’s why.
My doctor can’t be roleblocked or redirected. I hid that. So mafia does actually have to guess who I protect it. So I can block a kill and therefore its not MYLO.
Yeah even if the doctor can’t be stopped it should be mylo, but I guess there’s a sneaking possible you calculate and guess who we kill tonight. We can always gamble that choice to make an official decision but at that point it’s just a Russian roulette
If we define MYLO as any 4-2 situation, then it is. But if the definition of MYLO takes roles into accounts, then any doctor present means 4-2 isn’t technically MYLO. In this game there’s not even a perfect play you can make to guarantee the NK, so it really does come down to the protect mind games and therefore not MYLO by the latter definition of MYLO.
If MYLO still means mislynch and lose, and the mislynch causes us to kill someone you fail to protect and you lose, than a mislynch resulted in a loss
yeah but if the mislynch results in me blocking the kill in the night, then it’s still game on
Yes.
Originally Posted by Lunatic on 7/8/2026 at 11:34 PM (post #121)
Originally Posted by Mag1cman on 7/8/2026 at 9:31 PM (post #118)
If it’s two scum and no TP, then it is MYLO
MislYnch = LOse
I guess on a technicality some roles could make it not MYLO if mafia makes the wrong plays.
That’s why.
My doctor can’t be roleblocked or redirected. I hid that. So mafia does actually have to guess who I protect it. So I can block a kill and therefore its not MYLO.
Yeah even if the doctor can’t be stopped it should be mylo, but I guess there’s a sneaking possible you calculate and guess who we kill tonight. We can always gamble that choice to make an official decision but at that point it’s just a Russian roulette
If we define MYLO as any 4-2 situation, then it is. But if the definition of MYLO takes roles into accounts, then any doctor present means 4-2 isn’t technically MYLO. In this game there’s not even a perfect play you can make to guarantee the NK, so it really does come down to the protect mind games and therefore not MYLO by the latter definition of MYLO.
I figured out why it’s not MYLO and it has to do with me not giving all the details of my role. See above.
If it’s two scum and no TP, then it is MYLO
MislYnch = LOse
I guess on a technicality some roles could make it not MYLO if mafia makes the wrong plays.
That’s why.
My doctor can’t be roleblocked or redirected. I hid that. So mafia does actually have to guess who I protect it. So I can block a kill and therefore its not MYLO.
Originally Posted by Mag1cman on 7/8/2026 at 11:21 PM (post #104)
VTL: Lunatic
was correct there, wrong on Pie
I ended up not protecting Whiteflame because his claim was such a weird investigative it steered me away, after I read DP2 closer. Protected Banana instead.
So 2/3 in Lunatic, Whiteflame, Pie was correct.
both scum in that pool* the way I typed this was confusing
So, why is this not MYLO?
VTL: Lunatic
was correct there, wrong on Pie
I ended up not protecting Whiteflame because his claim was such a weird investigative it steered me away, after I read DP2 closer. Protected Banana instead.
So 2/3 in Lunatic, Whiteflame, Pie was correct.
A no lynch has been reached.
Thank you guys.
Have fun.
*than Wylted
Alr Lunatic Pie scummy
Rex idk then
Whiteflame probably town then? Being investigative might be the explanation for his early DP1 post against claiming.
Actually Wryly looks less like a town lock than Lunatic does off that.
Alr disregard what I said on Whiteflame.
although iirc Whiteflame and Lunatic were on each other until Whiteflame claimed.
Someone hammer the VTNL please
At any rate yall should VTNL
I think Pie*
Yeah. I get Pie starting the wagon me was a little cheeky as well.
Originally Posted by Wryly on 7/7/2026 at 3:15 PM (post #324)
Originally Posted by Mag1cman on 7/7/2026 at 3:13 PM (post #322)
it was before he voted. He initially tried to say we didn’t have time for it but then jumped on it and said nevermind.
You mean when he said he would support a no lynch but he didn't think we could pull it off?
yeah. When we definitely could have and are pulling it off.
But lowkey, with Whiteflame seemingly against him, I favor Pie-Whiteflame over any combination involving Lunatic. But all three are firmly in the scum atmosphere.
Originally Posted by Wryly on 7/7/2026 at 3:12 PM (post #321)
Originally Posted by Mag1cman on 7/7/2026 at 3:10 PM (post #317)
Town space
Banana
Mag1c
In orbit
Wylted
Wryly
Mafia Atmosphere
Lunatic
Whiteflame
Pie
no particular order
Full agreement. Regarding #312 I didn't see Lunatic give much pushback on a VTNL, wdym?
it was before he voted. He initially tried to say we didn’t have time for it but then jumped on it and said nevermind.
Right. Rex is town. Put him either in orbit or in town space. He’s all but townlocked for me.
im forgetting someone
Town space
Banana
Mag1c
In orbit
Wylted
Wryly
Mafia Atmosphere
Lunatic
Whiteflame
Pie
no particular order