Mag1cman

Originally Posted by ILikePie5 on 9/22/2026 at 10:01 AM (post #258)

Originally Posted by Mag1cman on 9/21/2026 at 10:15 PM (post #212)

Still townreading you but I'm really not liking your disappearance when you don't really have to defend yourself.

If town doesn’t want to follow me, then tell me what to do. I’ve said 50 times to get Kohai to full claim, and crickets. We’ve been going in circles all DP, just like I said we would.

you’ve gotten your reactions out of Kohai. Is there something specific you suspect there or not?

Originally Posted by Banana on 9/22/2026 at 3:40 AM (post #245)

i think both of you are kinda talking past each other at this point lol

magic, i dont think lunatic is saying that changing reads is scummy. i think his issue is just that some of the changes feel bigger than the reasons he was given for them. i dont think thats an unreasonable thing to question

lunatic, i also think youre maybe giving magic less credit than he deserves here. he wasnt just like "i reread pie and decided hes town." he said he was putting too much weight on the previous game and once he got past that he thought pies pressure on kohai could actually make sense as a reaction test

i think the bigger thing for me is that both of you are starting to argue about how the other one is arguing instead of the actual reads lol

lunatic keeps saying magic isnt explaining it enough and magic keeps saying lunatic is being disingenuous or trying to control the conversation. neither of those things really gets us anywhere

from where im sitting, i actually think both of you look more town because of this

right now id probably leave both of you as town and look somewhere else for scum because i dont think this fight is getting us anywhere anymore

ok, let’s move onto Vader then.

dude where are you. I"m starting to lose confidence in my townread on you.Like the second I townread you and the pressure disappears, you just disappear.

highkey ur lucky i scumread Vader just a bit more.

Originally Posted by Lunatic on 9/22/2026 at 2:46 AM (post #232)

Originally Posted by Banana on 9/21/2026 at 11:35 PM (post #231)

i think lunatic is making a pretty big case out of something that might just be normal town behavior. changing reads isnt inherently scummy and magic has actually explained why some of his reads changed

i also dont really like the way lunatic keeps framing it as magic being "safe" because im not sure what magic could realistically do differently here. theres still a bunch of people who havent really posted much so obviously reads are gonna be pretty fluid

i dont think lunatic is necessarily wrong about magic but i think hes more interested in making the magic progression look suspicious than actually figuring out why magic changed his reads

I think you're slightly missing what I'm getting at here.

I don't think changing reads is inherently scummy. Obviously town can change their mind, especially this early when there are still people who haven't said much.

The issue for me is more about why Magic is changing his reads and whether the reasoning actually supports the magnitude of those changes.

Go ahead and refute my reasoning then. Tell my why my read is a bad flip. Go ahead.

With Pie, I don't care that Magic went from scum -> town. That's completely fine if he reread Pie and found something that changed his mind. What bothered me was that the explanation for such a big change was basically that he went back and didn't see anything that felt off anymore.

That's a massive strawman. I said I was basing a lot of things off his pressure on Kohai. My error was basing it too much in the last game basically starting with the assumption Pie is scum. Once I got over that, yeah I can see Pie doing a reaction test, or trying to pressure kohai into a slip, or driving activity... whatever you want to call it, it achieved all three of those things.

That's a pretty weak reason to go from voting someone and wanting a claim to calling them solid town, in my opinion.

And then once Pie gets moved out of that spot, Kohai becomes the person he's looking at. That's the progression I'm talking about when I say it feels safe. I'm not saying Magic needs to have the game solved or that every read needs to be locked in.

First off I said it felt m/m or m/t. Obviously, I'm going to look at the other person after I find the other to be town. That is a natural progression. And I looked at Kohai and he's really a tossup for me. And then I read other people and found a few people I scumread.

I also don't think I'm just trying to make the progression "look suspicious." If that was all I was doing, I probably wouldn't have spent the time actually asking Magic to explain the changes.

You asked those questions in such a disingenuous way, I answered them and now you're saying it "doesn't ease you"... yeah I'm sure it doesn't lol

Originally Posted by Lunatic on 9/22/2026 at 2:49 AM (post #233)

Anyways if other people think I am full of crap or barking up the wrong tree here, I am happy to look elsewhere. This isn't a smoking gun, but its my best lead, and my gut is telling me there's something to it. I've been wrong before, if I am wrong here, point it out to me and I'll try to reconsider. I am not wanting to tunnel vision, even if it seems like I am. I am just trying to explain what I am seeing here.

how about vader?

Originally Posted by Lunatic on 9/22/2026 at 1:21 AM (post #230)

Originally Posted by Mag1cman on 9/21/2026 at 9:07 PM (post #210)

Mag1cman — Scum lean

Still my strongest scum read.

It's not really one specific post. It's more the way his reads seem to move around. I don't care that he changes his reads — obviously town should change their reads when they get new information.

What bothers me is that I don't really understand what is causing the changes.

The Pie → town → potentially reconsidering Pie / focusing on Kohai progression is what I'm looking at the most. His response to my case also felt more like explaining why each individual point wasn't necessarily scummy than actually addressing the overall pattern I was talking about.

So yeah, he's the person I'm most interested in right now.

Looking at how you formatted this post, you clearly read my reads... so what don't you understand about my reads? I felt I explained them pretty well. And as for the bolded part, I don't know what you're expecting of me. YOu can look at my behavior and give some sort of plan behind it, or I could just be town. I can't really prove to you for certain that I'm not masterminding some secret plan where every point I make is carefully crafted to manipulate you, and every little behavior thing isn't part said mastermind plan. It's unfalsifiable.

I also don't understand why you would townread me for stuff you saw me doing in previous town games. I go through my thoughts, then I go back and reorganize. You've seen it so many times.

I'm not saying I don't understand the individual reasons behind your reads. I understand why you moved on Pie, and I understand why you're interested in Kohai. What I don't understand is the weight you're putting on those reads and how quickly you're able to move between them. Like, when I say I don't understand the progression, I don't mean "Magic has not explained himself." You have explained yourself. I'm saying the explanations aren't really resolving my concern. And I definitely don't think you're running some giant mastermind plan where every post is carefully crafted. That's not what I'm accusing you of lol.

Lol earlier you in your case your saying you don't understand something about my reads, now you move the goalposts. This is stupid.

I'm looking at the actual behavior and saying that, from my perspective, the way you're handling your reads gives you a lot of flexibility. That's not unfalsifiable. You can absolutely prove me wrong by continuing to play and showing that your reads actually have a consistent progression as we get more information.

tfym consistent progression? Town changes as they continue to think.

If Pie flips town and you were right to move off him, cool. If Kohai gives you more information and your read changes because of it, also cool. That's how town is supposed to work.

Except for the fact you were arguing I'm scum off this being too convenient. Now you're contradicting yourself.

What I'm watching for is whether your reads are actually being driven by new information or whether you're mostly finding reasons after the fact for whichever direction you're currently leaning. And on the meta point, I'm not saying "Magic did this as town before, therefore he's town.

I'm saying I've seen you do this kind of thought process as town before, so I'm giving that some weight when I'm trying to figure out your alignment now. If anything, that makes me less confident in the scum read, not more. But the current game still matters more than the meta.

If you think I'm misrepresenting your progression, then tell me what I'm getting wrong about it. Which part of the Pie → town → reconsidering Pie → Kohai progression do you think I'm reading incorrectly?

I'm not on Kohai. I have him null, and I've opted to move on from him. So you're wrong there.

Because that's the actual thing I'm trying to figure out.

I don't think you're scum because "you changed your reads."

I think you're scum because I'm not convinced the reasons for those changes are as strong as you're making them out to be.

And that's something we can actually test as the game goes on.

If you'd want to test, surely you'd want to move on from me then. no? CMon now,

You're whole shtick here is trying to smooth talk, show a phony control over the conversation. You don't have it. your argument is nonsense.

Vader - Slight scum. Don't love the FoS On Kiggans and a little wary of him piggy-backing on Luna's reasoning to put a vote on Mag1c without much reasoning. Feels a little opportunistic on both fronts, given Kiggan's relative absence and Mag1c already becoming a major focus.

Yes. Please vote vader.

Genuinely, the people who are not scumreading me are lock town. There's no shot mafia isn't being opportunistic on me.

No shot you guys actually think I'm scum. I've town told all game long as there's one thing that should lock me town. But ofc if I point it out, y'all are gonna ascribe it to my master plan.

I think 2/2/3 in Vader/Whiteflame/Lunatic rn. Kohai and Kiggans are floating around and possible, but not my big idea. Thoth, Banana, and Pie are off the table for me atm

VTL Vader

I want Vader's claim

Originally Posted by Vader on 9/21/2026 at 6:46 PM (post #190)

Right now I think I have a lot more to work with. I also have a read I want to quick fire out but don’t

Simmered down on my Pie read based on his logic that he provided later on in the DP. It is still a bit unorthodox but not ruled out for him

I like Banana so far in this game. I think they came in swinging and got a big chunk post out there with formal reads and all that ASAP so I think they fall into my town pile. I also know banana scum tries to lure quickly in as scum and not jump in right away to action and avoid interaction so I think that aligns of my presumed behavior

Thoth has fallen off my wagon a bit and my vote still reads NAI

FOS on Kohai and you, but willing to excuse Kohai due to religious circumstances but there is some things I’m not loving when on

I have a read I am going to make when I get home and shower depending if I see something in the next 30 min. It could be a reach, but something I like to see

not a single one of these is an original read lol

I also don't understand why you wouldn't townread me for stuff you saw me doing in previous town games. I go through my thoughts, then I go back and reorganize. You've seen it so many times.

ebwop

What specifically bugs you about Kohai?

Originally Posted by Vader on 9/21/2026 at 7:32 PM (post #194)

Ok, I’ll give my full reads but I have an FoS against Kiggins. I want to be very light considering the circumstances, but coming back, saying you read for the last 2 hours, then the only thing saying is that “Pie could be scum, could be innocent” and then not pushing much thought is inherently scummy. If anything, it’s a vet trying to deviate the lime light from him so he doesn’t have to full claim. FYI I do believe his story and hope he’s better, but that’s just not the analysis you give after going 2 hours reading the DP

If we're really dealing with a noob here I can see it being NAI. If it's like Disc or 7th, slightly more likely to be scum. Ofc, if they're gonna troll like that, I imagine they might do it as either affiliation. Especially Disc. Just a great excuse to be lazy, pretending to be a noob. Like there could be something there but I'm not sure yet.

Originally Posted by Kohai on 9/21/2026 at 7:21 PM (post #192)

Originally Posted by Vader on 9/21/2026 at 6:32 PM (post #182)

I don’t love Magic jumping from a vote on Pie to then coming off and looking at pressure elsewhere after like 10 posts.

What really bothers me is his progression from voting him to having him as town and then accusing him of a potential scum slip. Will do more in depth when I get home

felt off to me, and I asked about it.

You know how I feel about Pie in these games. Even when he looks town to me, I'm gonna keep my guard up. Yeah, I'm paranoid, but I respect Pie's play too much to 100% trust him even when I townread him. I'm going to press him about something if it seems wrong to me. His reply to me made sense, and so it probably wasn't a scumslip. If he had reacted any differently, I would have had a reason to be suspicious.

Originally Posted by Mag1cman on 9/21/2026 at 11:18 PM (post #214)

So let's say you're part of the mafia. What's the first thing you would do in the game? And beyond that, what would your plan be?

Within the context of this particular game, that is.

So let's say you're part of the mafia. What's the first thing you would do in the game? And beyond that, what would your plan be?

Vader — Slight scum lean

I don't have a huge case here yet. There's just not enough from him that makes me want to put him in my town pile.

He's also one of the people Magic has already called out as a scumread, although I'm not really using that as a reason to read him either way.

More of a "I want to see more" than me wanting to push him right now

Is there something specific that bugs you about Vader? this looks like a null read more than slight scum read.

Still townreading you but I'm really not liking your disappearance when you don't really have to defend yourself.

Originally Posted by Vader on 9/21/2026 at 11:03 PM (post #207)

Got caught up with football and forgot to post. I’m good with Magic for pressure if that’s the direction we want

opportunism noted

Mag1cman — Scum lean

Still my strongest scum read.

It's not really one specific post. It's more the way his reads seem to move around. I don't care that he changes his reads — obviously town should change their reads when they get new information.

What bothers me is that I don't really understand what is causing the changes.

The Pie → town → potentially reconsidering Pie / focusing on Kohai progression is what I'm looking at the most. His response to my case also felt more like explaining why each individual point wasn't necessarily scummy than actually addressing the overall pattern I was talking about.

So yeah, he's the person I'm most interested in right now.

Looking at how you formatted this post, you clearly read my reads... so what don't you understand about my reads? I felt I explained them pretty well. And as for the bolded part, I don't know what you're expecting of me. YOu can look at my behavior and give some sort of plan behind it, or I could just be town. I can't really prove to you for certain that I'm not masterminding some secret plan where every point I make is carefully crafted to manipulate you, and every little behavior thing isn't part said mastermind plan. It's unfalsifiable.

I also don't understand why you would townread me for stuff you saw me doing in previous town games. I go through my thoughts, then I go back and reorganize. You've seen it so many times.

Also notice how multiple people in the thread are shading me. Not really something I saw in Pie and Kohai. Admittedly the dynamic is a bit different... it's one person to push vs two players going at it... but all I'm saying is there's more people on me than there really should be.

So, do you find Kohai scummy? Why or why not? What's the plan here.

I actually like Pie a little more after going back through everything. He's been pretty aggressive and isn't really afraid to just go after people, which is his meta. And the bull headedness is something he would do as town. But I figure he’d deflate a bit after all the backlash after the last game didn’t go well for him. I’ll revisit this but for now I’ll give him a town lean

you sussed me for doing exactly this lol

???

unvote

Originally Posted by Vader on 9/21/2026 at 6:30 PM (post #180)

I don’t want to act defensive/give strategy but I very rarely put votes to get L-1 to get pressure out of paranoia of scum quick hammer. I vote if I want to lynch

I'll buy it for now... what do you think of the game so far?

Originally Posted by JenKiggans2026 on 9/21/2026 at 6:25 PM (post #176)

No, I actually was sick. I just got out of the emergency room this morning so I started at the top and read down to the bottom like two hours ago

alr. You can read tone through text, you just can't hear it. It's harder but it's doable.

Originally Posted by Kohai on 9/21/2026 at 5:01 PM (post #170)

Originally Posted by Banana on 9/21/2026 at 2:50 AM (post #124)

did u vote pie because his behavior was scummy, or because u thought his demand for you to claim was harmful to the game? if neither, plz explain.

what specifically seperates pie as mafia here from his town aggressiveness to create reactions?

is pie a genuine read or just someone u are annoyed with?

In the previous game where pie and I were scum buddies the first thing he did was try and get claims. In the previous game, he did this by targetting Thoth and try and compell him to full claim day 1 under the guise of "he's a risk to town because of previous play."

In this game, I'm especially skeptical about people forcing claims early. The more claims we get the easier it is for scum to hammer out fake claims.

We do have to get claims at some point. I can agree it shouldn't be day one of a DP (Usually) but we need the info. The fear of a fake claim shouldn't deter us.

Ofc Pie's stated reason was just to see if you'd slip up, and generate activity. He did accomplish the latter.