Magoroth

I think Bullish is scum

Kohai wrote:

Mikal wrote:

I dislike that thoth is posting in discord and not engaging on here to questions being asked to him

Really? More OGI

TBH I think that’s fair game, Thoth controls that aspect of the read.

I’ll state that I find a Lunatic/Banana/?? quite possible at this point. I don’t find Rex genuinely scummy and it makes me feel like there’s at least one scum on his train

whiteflame wrote:

Helz wrote:

Actually rereading what I just posted I think I would really like to hear more thoughts that are not about flavor. I feel like the majority of your stuff is flavor focused and I would like to hear analysis..

Good thing I was already planning on doing this with a more extensive read list. I don't have a lot of time before I eat dinner, so I'm going to break this into pieces and do a few players at a time.

Kohai - Given town atp. Helz already mentioned that it can at least be useful to have someone who is known town throughout this DP, and a few others have mentioned that it takes someone who is usually the focus of attention this early off the table, which is a nice change of pace. Been a while since he's chimed in (yes, I know, Shavuot) and the last post was just to unvote, so I'd like to get more insight from him.

Bullish - Slight scum. Much as I liked his early post about me only liking 3 elements, there just hasn't been a lot since. The sus on Magoroth is unclear. It initially looked like an RVS, but then he talks about Magoroth "over compensating," townreads Rex for no reason I can see, and states a lack of opposition with a mass character claim. I don't think Pie stated that there's any anti-claim mechanic in play here, but I pushing for a mass claim here of any kind rubs me the wrong way.

Magoroth - I've landed on null for Magoroth after catching up. His post about "read[ing] emotion in" my posts felt pretty genuine to past interactions with him as town (he always seems to specifically call me out for not posting more organically) and the pushback on exploring Thoth's role more in depth looked a little townie, though in retrospect, he wasn't the first to push back on more info there. Largely spent the early DP just pushing a little to see how people responded to scum accusations and questioning Thoth about some of the aspects of his role without getting into the details (though surmising that Thoth's role could somehow function as anti-claim raised a small flag, don't really get where that thinking comes from).

The metal softclaim was a little off when there was generally pushback against softclaims like that, but what's been pinging me back to neutral is how he's dancing around his scumreads, saying he doesn't have any only to say he "could say" he scumreads Rex and has some uncertainty towards Mag1c. I get wanting to play things different and I'm not so much sussing a difference in behavior, but rather the decision to be so insecure about his early stage reads only to shift back to null on him later. Not going straight to a VTL is fine, but this all seems very cagey. The uncertainty seems kind of genuine, but that's the best I can say about it.

Thoth - Slight town. That early claim definitely helps my perspective on him. I don't think scum Thoth opts to ask about this obscure element and then designs this role on the fly. There's an outside chance that, given scum can only ask about two characters, he just goes for a low likelihood claim and someone on his team comes in with a pre-packaged role that gives him some cover for numerous DPs. The main thing that's holding me back from a solid townread is the DP4 aspect. Having to wait 3 more DPs to figure out what his role is gives him a lot of cover, and it reminds me a lot of games where someone (looking at Pie here) gave a late DP Innocent Child claim and just coasted on that to victory. That being said, his responses to efforts to clarify his role are consistent with what he's said, and if there's anything I've experienced from Thoth that usually makes weird role claims from him stand out as scummy, it's inconsistencies. Maybe he's gotten better at supporting fake claims or he's getting help, but I doubt it.

Back with more later.

also. I claimed metal in the astronomical sense. for an astronomer all elements heavier than hydrogen and helium are metals. I dunno how that’s damaging. I just said I am not two things, I could still be like 100 others lol

Mikal wrote:

You can justify that however you want. But the refusal to comply and cooperate with town and blaming it on bad town play is idiotic

I don’t want to go into this weird political/religious idea you guys have. But, I sincerely do not give a single fuck about “cooperating with the town”. People should get better at reading because “the Town” does not exist. Groupthink is a thing and if people engage in it, that’s on them lol.

Just wanted to say this because sooooooo many times I heard this here and I just don’t care about the Town.

Mikal wrote:

No. Think it means hes active and around and avoiding the game

I mean if he was scum wouldn’t he just avoid posting in the Discord if he wanted to pretend to be inactive? I do that as scum

Mikal wrote:

I dislike that thoth is posting in discord and not engaging on here to questions being asked to him

if he was scum wouldn’t he just not post in the discord lol

Bullish wrote:

I would not be opposed to a mass character claim.

what would this achieve?

fact that Mag1cman feels the same way I do makes me think he might be Town. I don’t have many scumreads

Thoth wrote:

I do want to emphasize that I am 90% sure I don’t have an active ability because Pie answered that I would not choose my targets if I did, and that really seems like putting in a role PM. Your mileage may vary.

Are you going to submit a night action?

Thoth wrote:

Again, I would like to float that everyone soft whether their justifications are airtight or loosey-goosey. If everyone has solid justifications, it could help me guess what my hidden ability is.

I don’t see how this could help scum. If you think it could, please explain why rather than scumreading me for the float.

What exactly have you found out regarding this ability? Can you say what you asked Pie?

Thoth wrote:

ILikePie5 wrote:

Correct. Just the name of the Element is your character. It will be Pieonium, not Pieonium-1234

I heard they use that in atomic clocks that measure how long you take to get your night actions in

Indeed.

what if you’re about to lose? something…

I would like an actual explanation from @Banana as to why she thinks I’m suspicious. The point that she raises that I’m overreacting over being scumread is strange, considering she has admitted it herself that she dislikes being scumread and almost didn’t sign up for the previous game out of a fear of being mislynched by pie. So what gives? If anything, she should be seeing my perspective here.

As an aside, I rather liked Rex’s last response and I thought hes defending himself rather well; he’s not responding to his accusers’ arguments necessarily; but he is aggressive and voluntary, which is a towntell.

I’m gonna be a bit of a dick here and say that the guide Helz wrote says that the natural reaction to being scumread is to suspect the other person as scum; scum may townread someone who scumreads them. Rex did not do this

Okay so I asked Pie a bunch of questions.

Everyone knows their alignment.

Kohai is 100% confirmed Town.

It is revealed whether someone was guilty or innocent right when they get lynched.

MyLo/LyLo are not revealed.

Are exotic atoms or chemical elements possible? Shit like muonic hydrogen? Actually, are isotopes possible? Or is everyone just a chemical element with no referende to isotopes?

Banana wrote:

im here catching up sorry was busy yesterday

Why are you scum?

Yeah, I’m not really liking Rex’s response here. If anything he looks more nervous and gated than Helz. Don’t think it has to come from scum but it doesn’t look good.

Speaking of. One explanation for why “everyone is saying” that I’m active and therefore Town is that this was said in scum chat and scum are just kinda piggybacking off of each other. This would make at least two of the players, I believe Mag1c, Mikal, Rex scum.

I am unsure exactly how to read myself. In the game where Mag1c accidentally lynched Thoth on D1, I believe I had a somewhat similar playstyle in that I did not offer a lot of thoughts and was very reserved. So I am kinda hampered by this because I do not know “how” I’m supposed to be read. Are the people reading me as scum opportunistic, or are the peoppe townreading me TMIing/whiteknighting? Who knows.

I suspect Helz would know better since he knows me better than others here, but he also has to be town for that to count.

If people are interested here’s a game where at first anyway I was also not super active and scumreading everyone. As town. I’m not always scum when I do this, I was William De Vere here:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?t=94869

I do not expect you to read 10,000 literal post. Just do an ISO on me and read a few posts. You’ll see

Ah okay yeah that makes sense.

Shining wrote:

Mikal wrote:

Some times people are mean to you to gain reactions. Not cus they dislike you lol. But yeah you should have waited to activate given you are implying you can. Saving that for later day phases would have been huge for us

You know, I remember asking Pie about his PGO role, and I remember his having a stroke and him lynching me because it was scummy. I was town, so I wonder if this is the same thing or you might be scum instead.

What is this in reference to?

I am asking a dumb question to the host if Kohai could possibly NOT be confirmed Town somehow (e.g. the reveal could be a lie). I expect the answer to certainly be no, but it’s best to cover all possible bases. Not that I scumread Kohai though.

There are certain aspects of Thoth’s role that, if true, I venture should not be discussed.

So yeah gun to the head if I had to name two scum, maybe Mikal and Mag1cman. Need more from Shining and Banana, total nullreads. Can be an idea to lynch Shining. Always a solid choice to lynch an inactive D1.

Town leans, Whiteflame, Thoth? Maybe Rex? Everyone else seems to be scumreading Rex so I’ll just leave Rex as null for now.

I need more from Shining, and Banana. Shining has posted just once.

I initially had the wild idea that something mentioned in this theead was disxussed in scum chat. I believe by Mag1cman or Kohai? Moot point because Kohai is confirmes Town.

That being said, if I had to hazard a guess, Helz’s behaviour is NAI. I am familiar with his scum meta and he’s a very strong scum. So his behaviour here is Towny on the surface, but I wouldn’t put much faith in that. Null. Possibly neutral vibes because he is givinf me the vibe of keeping his cards close to his chest, something I would sooner see from a third party or a town player, not Mafia. Or Cult or whatnot. It’s a bit of a reach but that’s what I can say about him.

Rex has the usual problem of not really offering much in the way of contenr. I think in the game where he claimed Bodyguard as scum he had stronger stances? I don’t really remember but that’s just off the top of my head.

Maybe Mikal pointing out the innocent child thing is scummy? On one hand why would a Town do this? On the other hand saying this openly as scum seems more like the type of mistake a novice or disinhibited acum player would make, and Mikal doesn’r strike me as either of these things.

Some thing I usually regard as a scum tell is strong stances on a player very early into the game. Scum have this aura of fake confidence because they don’t have to hunt and can just make up shit because they already know stuff. I think Mag1cman, Mikal are guilty of this. Not sure about Rex.

I think Thoth’s claim is kinda towny? I won’t say it feels like a weird lie to make up because I have lied much more crazily as scum, like claiming Miller Cop that could self-Lawyer as Town. So I don’t think in itself is Townie, but my gut doesn’t really think the claim itself is a lie, regardless? Dunno.

Lunatic wrote:

I am actually noticing a lot of similarities to debate craft mafia mago doing an ISO here. The posting style, short form answers, not many strong stances, etc.

Do an Iso of Ruyi zhuan. Tons of bigger posts, paragraphs, spacing, passionate reads, more votes etc. Iso him from the pitt same thing.

Ruyi Zhuan dp1: Mago votes shining, to wryly, to thoth, to wryly again, to shining again, to iLikePie5, to Thoth again, to Mikal, to Lunatic. A total of nine vote changes dp1.

The pitt dp1: Mago switched his vote from Vader, to Alyssa, to Wylted, to Thoth, to Rex, back to wylted, to shining, to alyssa again, to shining, back to rex. He changed his vote 10 times the whole day phase 1 of the pitt.

Lets look at his scum games.

Debatecraft mafia DP2: He slept through all of dp1 which ended very fast so we can just count this as dp1. He votes a total of two times, between pie and rex.

MAGA mafia Dp1: Total of three votes betweem whiteflame, pie and rex.

We wont count Frieren against him because he was juts inactive and unavailable. I can also give some small grace on MAGA mafia since it seemed similar but not nearly as bad. Either way I am noticing a pattern here. Mago seems to be more of a hyper poster, and voter as town, and is constantly paranoid and shifting his votes. He seems far more conservative with his votes as scum.

I am not suggesting he is outright scum yet, and I realize we are still early in the day phase, but its not rubbing me right that his only vote so far has been an RVS vote on magic, and he hasn't really tried a whole lot of scum hunting.

I suppose I should state I am trying something different this time. I noticed from arguing with people on the server and in other places that I tend to skim over people’s messages and often misunderstand what the other person is trying to say. So now I am just being careful and trying to read everything everyone has said before I derive a conclusion. Where I do not, I refrain from making a decision. Is that smart? Perhaps not, but I do not wish to pull conclusions out of thin air out of a fear of being wrong.

So like, I could say I scumread Rex and definitely wouldn’t mind more votes there for pressure, but these aren’t my personal thoughts on the matter and on my end, I don’t actually get any vibes from them so I don’t want to pretend like I’m reading them a certain way, because that would be wrong. I am sorry that I cannot explain this any better, I hope what I am trying to argue is being carried across sufficiently well

Lunatic wrote:

Magoroth wrote:

Lunatic wrote:

I wanna make something happen. Maybe I should claim something bonkers to spice things up.

If you were going to do this why announce to the world you are gonna do it instead of just do it? When you did this in the pitt it was obvious, but you at least tried to pretend you were doing being discreet lol

Yup. This is why I should not be given any private information. If I had the knowledge that X was Town or some such, I would likely start talking about it out of an inability to shut up.

Well that's not really my point. But okay.

Anyways, going through your ISO the only hint of a scum read I have found that you have on anyone (not counting your RVS on magic) is kohai in post 42.

Everything else has been kind of a center of the lane stance, short form answer, not really pointing any sort of direction. I have to say, this doesn't seem like town magoroth here.

Other than town leaning WF, Who are your scum reads and why?

No, I see your point. At least I think you do. Your point is that it was stupid of me to say it if I wanted to do it, right? I agree. I felt like saying it and did, irrespective of that though.

I do not really have any scumreads. I sort of agree on the point people seem to be making against Rex, and I’m getting some bad vibes from Casey, but I don’t really “scumread” anyone. I haven’t devoted any actual brainpower to reading this that resulted in a scumread on my part; maybe some unease over Rex’s comments at the start of the game, but, no, I don’t have any real scumreads. The reason I mentioned Rex/Mag1c is because I do kind of want to have scumreads, but at the same time I also don’t want to put too much value on these two because it could easily turn out I was wrong as I’m just kinda going along with what other people are saying. Does that make sense?

Lunatic wrote:

I wanna make something happen. Maybe I should claim something bonkers to spice things up.

If you were going to do this why announce to the world you are gonna do it instead of just do it? When you did this in the pitt it was obvious, but you at least tried to pretend you were doing being discreet lol

Yup. This is why I should not be given any private information. If I had the knowledge that X was Town or some such, I would likely start talking about it out of an inability to shut up.