Stephen

Sound like a good move. I am pleased for you both. I have always loved the Devon and Cornwall coast.

Retirement is fine as long as you can keep occupied with interests outside of the home. Strange how many retirees believes that its all over once they finish working life because they have no interests or hobbies . I have been lucky in that sense with my Bonsai and the grandchildren's sports ( they can run rings around me now.)

I feel ok myself health wise. but if I'm honest I am not looking forward to my nephrectomy op.

Still, it is what it is, that being quality of life as opposed to quantity of life. As I have said a few times now, I am sure that there are plenty in St John's bone yard that would like to to here to complain.

All the best Vic. Keep in touch.

The answer was given in my post #6. It was seen as the final judgement.

But it isn't. Stop swerving.

"Debby" wrote: at 6 above. The disciples initially understood “the end” (Matthew 24:3) to mean the immediate , apocalyptic conclusion of the current age, characterized by the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem , the end of the Roman oppression, and the arrival of the Messianic Kingdom. It was seen as the final judgement.

Simply tell us what the "current age was?

It can't be hard considering that it was only you that mentioned it. If you don't know just say so.

Good Morning SL.

Hope all is well with you and yours, my mate.

"Debby Wrote: It has to do with context and its translation. 

Stephen wrote: You obviously intentionally missed this part of the OP .

 Before the default excuse of "CONTEXT!" is raised, let me draw your attention to the fact that these verses are all from the same gospel. 

And if they are not in "CONTEXT!" then anyone is welcome to put these contradictions into "CONTEXT! for us showing us all how they make perfect sense when they are read in "context" . 

So when you are ready.

"Debby wrote: The Bible is made up of 66 books by different authors on different subjects written over time. Taking what is written in context is extremely important.

Your response neither answers the OP nor does it put those contradictions into "Context. You accused my of that old chestnut of taking things out of context. So here is your chance to put them into context. So again , When you are ready!

here they are again:

Equal then not equal

 John 10:30 " I and the Father are one".  

John 14:28 “ I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I" .

I judge then I don't judge 

John 5:22 , 30. " Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son. By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just".

John 8:15   " You judge by human standards; I pass judgment on no one.

John 12:47 " I do not judge that person. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world.

I am my own witness and it is true. Then It is not true.

John 8:14 “Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid, for I know where I came from and where I am going".

John 5:31  “If I testify about myself, my testimony is not true.

John 33-34  “You have sent to John and he has testified to the truth. 34 Not that I accept human testimony; but I mention it that you may be saved.

John 15:27 "And you also must testify, for you have been with me from the beginning.

Before the default excuse of "CONTEXT!" is raised, let me draw your attention to the fact that these verses are all from the same gospel. 

And if they are not in "CONTEXT!" then anyone is welcome to put these contradictions into "CONTEXT! for us showing us all how they make perfect sense when they are read in "context" . 

And I aske you , Do you agree with:  Ehrman's opinion and "point of view" that the scribes added their "own points of view"?

here are 66 books in the Bible written by different authors.

Stephen wrote: Indeed. And no one in over two thousand years has been able to tell us:

How it was that someone was able to write about at least THREE!! biblical episodes when there were only two beings present on two occasions and only one present on a third ?(1)Jesus talk with Pilate.(2) Jesus challenge by the Devil.(3) Jesus talks with "his father". alone

"Debby "wrote: These events are conveyed to the disciples by Jesus so they would record it. Jesus himself never wrote anything. He too conveyed what was shared by God.

Stop lying!. You can't prove a single word of that pile of shite. And you cannot show us a single BIBLICAL reference that this was the case.

The disciples initially understood “the end” (Matthew 24:3) to mean the immediate , apocalyptic conclusion of the current age, apocalyptic conclusion of the current age, characterized by the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem , the end of the Roman oppression, and the arrival of the Messianic Kingdom. It was seen as the final judgement.

I can agree with that in part. . But can you tell to me which "the current age" you believe that they were referring to?

What should we make of the fact the bible characters thought the end was near?

What end? The end of what?

"Debby "wrote: here are 66 books in the Bible written by different authors.

Indeed. And no one in over two thousand years has been able to tell us:

How it was that someone was able to write about at least THREE!! biblical episodes when there were only two beings present on two occasions and only one present on a third ?

(1)Jesus talk with Pilate.

(2) Jesus challenge by the Devil.

(3) Jesus talks with "his father". alone

I have never seen anyone explain them away and certainly not you.

And you swerved this: And do you agree with Ehrman's opinion and "point of view" that the scribes added their "own points of view"?

 "Debby Wrote: It has to do with context and its translation. 

You obviously intentionally missed this part of the OP .

Stephen wrote: Before the default excuse of "CONTEXT!" is raised, let me draw your attention to the fact that these verses are all from the same gospel. 

And if they are not in "CONTEXT!" then anyone is welcome to put these contradictions into "CONTEXT! for us showing us all how they make perfect sense when they are read in "context" . 

So when you are ready.

.....then the who put them into the mouth of the Christ?

Equal then not equal

 John 10:30 " I and the Father are one".  

John 14:28 “ I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I" .

I judge then I don't judge 

John 5:22 , 30. " Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son. By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just".

John 8:15   " You judge by human standards; I pass judgment on no one.

John 12:47 " I do not judge that person. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world.

I am my own witness and it is true. Then It is not true.

John 8:14 “Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid, for I know where I came from and where I am going".

John 5:31  “If I testify about myself, my testimony is not true.

John 33-34  “You have sent to John and he has testified to the truth. 34 Not that I accept human testimony; but I mention it that you may be saved.

John 15:27 "And you also must testify, for you have been with me from the beginning.

Before the default excuse of "CONTEXT!" is raised, let me draw your attention to the fact that these verses are all from the same gospel. 

And if they are not in "CONTEXT!" then anyone is welcome to put these contradictions into "CONTEXT! for us showing us all how they make perfect sense when they are read in "context" . 

Was John the Baptist Elijah was to come?

yes Matthew 11:14

no john 1:19-21

Jesus indicated that John fulfilled this role, though not literally being the same person. It was optional.

if you are willing to accept it. Jesus’s words in Matthew 11:14.suggesting that this identification required spiritual understanding from its listeners.

This was clarified why John was asked directly.then they asked him are you Elijah, John said I am not. John 1:19-21.

You are now repeating the contradiction between John's Gospel and that of Matthew.

Just accept it for what it is; a clear contradiction between the gospel writers.

Tell me , these "god inspired" gospels: Did god inspire one author to contradict another?

AND

jesus said, if I bear witness, my testimony is not true.john 5:31)

even if I bear witness to myself, my testimony is true John 8:14

"Debby" wrote:here Jesus explains the difference.

In John 5:31 If I alone bear witness, my testimony is not true according to ,legal standards.( there should be other witnesses).

In John 8:14 he is stating that his statement is intrinsically true because he is God, even if they reject the requirements for multiple witnesses.

You lack of Bible knowledge is hurting your ability to understand the scriptures. Satan is taking advantage of your ignorance and planting more doubts. Try smacking your head with the Bible so it will sink in deeper than it is.

Nope, Again your total lack of observation is letting you down. There must be quite a lot of very shiny things in your room that seem to be distracting you every time I point out the obvious.

Even Bart Ehrman said the contradictions in the Bible are minor and attributed to scribes adding their own view points or copying and comprehension errors. But your questions are superficial and already answered in the Bible itself..

And do you agree with Ehrman's opinion and "point of view" that the scribes added their "own points of view"?

Stephen wrote: Was John the Baptist Elijah who was to come?

yes (Matthew 11:14, 17:10-13

no (John 1:19-21)

"Debby" wrote: John gives his answer directly . So the Bible is the best reference.

john 1:21 They asked him,” then who are you? Are you Elijah? John said, “I am not”, are you a prophet?

He answered “No”.

You had the answer to your own question, but doubted John’s reply.

Again you are failing to read the question and not bother to Carefully read those two different replies. Joh gives one answer and Mathew a DIFFERENT!!. Learn to fk read you ignorant bellend!

This is what Mathew states when discussing about John the Baptist:

Matthew 11:14. And if you are willing to accept it, he is the Elijah who was to come. So here we read the Mathew is saying that John the Baptist IS Elijah.

And from Mathew drives home his claim:

HERE>>>>. Matthew 17:10-13The disciples asked him, “Why then do the teachers of the law say that Elijah must come first?”

11 Jesus replied, “To be sure, Elijah comes and will restore all things. 12 But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but have done to him everything they wished. In the same way the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands.” 13 Then the disciples understood that he was talking to them about John the Baptist.

But what does Johns gospel say????

 Now this was John’s testimony when the Jewish leaders in Jerusalem sent priests and Levites to ask him who he was. He did not fail to confess, but confessed freely, “I am not the Messiah.” John 1:19-21

21 They asked him, “Then who are you? Are you Elijah?”

He said, “I am not.”

“Are you the Prophet?”

He answered, “No.”

So You SEE Mathew say YES and John says NO.

Your problem thicko, is that you are not only pig ignorant, you are incapable of recognising these so obvious contradiction. and you are a simpleton in denial.

Now lets return to the others that you have either failed to answer or simply got wrong, again,

Stephen wrote: Did Jesus bear his own cross?

yes John 19:17

no Matthew 27:31-32

AND

Jesus said:

If I bear witness to myself, my testimony is not true (John 5:3 1)

Even if I do bear witness to myself, my testimony is true (John 8:14).

All your questions are based on your doubts about the word of God as inspired in the Bible

Indeed my doubt spring directly from and are "inspired by", the multiple, ambiguous, half told stories in the bible and its clear contradictions that you can't even admit to there existing in the BIBLE!

Stephen wrote: Did Jesus bear his own cross?

yes John 19:17

no Matthew 27:31-32

Thicko "Debby " wrote: Both accounts are true.

Not according to gospels. You haven't even bothered to read them carefully have you? Only one can be true. I have bold and underlined the word you should be concentrating on, THICKO! now go look properly.

and you missed this (no fkn surprises)

Jesus said:

If I bear witness to myself, my testimony is not true (John 5:3 1)

Even if I do bear witness to myself, my testimony is true (John 8:14).

And there is this too:

Was John the Baptist Elijah who was to come?

Yes (Matthew II: 14, 17:10-13)

No (John 1:19-21)

 doubts have been planted in your head by Satan and that caused a lost of faith 

I have lost faith in what exactly?

Jesus’s warnings about Satan corrupting the individual can be applied in Stephen’s case after the evidence is considered, his continues doubting of the Bible.

Does not the BIBLE itself tell us to continuously question what we are told?

Didn't the 19 faced murderer of Christians; Paul praise the Jews of Berea for being better questioners and "examiners" of scripture than those Jews of Thessalonica?

And scrutinising these flawed, contradictory statements and examining the ambiguous half told stories in the bible is not necessarily doubting it could be seriously considered as confirming.

You are just far too bible ignorant "Debby".

Look I believe that you have faith, but its not your faith I am doubting, is it? You just don't know enough about your own "faith" to even admit that it is quite clearly questionable at the very least.

Are you telling me that these verses I offer below are not even questionable and that they don't warrant further investigation!!??

LOOK FFS!!

According to the Gospel of John, what did Jesus say about bearing his own witness?

If I bear witness to myself, my testimony is not true (John 5:3 1)

Even if I do bear witness to myself, my testimony is true (John 8:14).

I want you to explain away this obvious contradiction. If they are out of context, then put them into context for us. Because is all I can read and see are clear contradictions from the same author.

So when you are ready, "Debby". Or would you like an easier one to explain away?

HERE YOU ARE then>>>

Did Jesus bear his own cross?

Yes (John 19:17)

No (Matthew 27:31-32)

Stephen wrote: Are you telling me that Jesus dies on the cross . And that after laying on a cold stone slab in a tomb, rotting and stinking for three days, that he came back to life?

"Debby" wrote: 1 Corinthians 15:6 which states that Jesus appeared to more than 500 brothers and sisters at one time, a claim written about 10-20years of the event, when many were still alive

Listen ,: not a single person witnessed a dead body come back to life after rotting and stinking in a tomb for three days.. Not a single one!

jesus proved them wrong by his resurrection and by establishing the Christian church to replace Judaism.

Are you trying to tell me that Jesus died on the cross? And that after laying on a stone cold slab in a tomb, rotting and stinking for three days that you believe he came back to life!?

Well I don't!!! You do know , don't you , that the stories of dying and rising gods have been around hundreds if not thousands of years before Christians decided it would wrap around and suite their story of Jesus very nicely?

I shall have to start a thread on the subject. Would you like that "Debby"?

Stephen questions the fundamentals of the Bible. [A]Why did Jesus come in the flesh?[B] Why did Jesus have to be sacrificed? [C] Why are there more than one god?

You can't even read my questions correctly. Is it any wonder that you cannot answer them!?

I actually asked :

[A]Why Do Christians Believe God Became Flesh?

And :[B] Why did god demand a blood sacrifice?

And: [C]One God? It is simply Not True

So you see you absolute ignorant clown, that it has been you all along that suffers from a reading deficiency.

You prove again you did not receive enough education and that includes knowledge of the Bible.

I can never get enough education on my favourite subject (religion. The NT in particular). And regardless how little you believe that is, it appears that I still have much more than you.

In your post #57 you said, “there are references to Jesus rejecting his mother and refusing to see her before his torturous death. That is a total lie.

You are doing it again. Its not a lie. I am hardly going to claim something from the bible that isn't in the bible. I leave that sort of bible rewriting to absolute bible dummies such as yourself.

I think that you just want to learn from me the things that I have painstakingly learned for myself for over 4 + decades.

Off you go now, stupid.

[a]The jews killed jesus cause he made himself out to be divine and they thought that was the worst crime possible. They were blinded by that and chose to overlook his miracles and pick a murderer instead.

Im not sure what you think youre proving unless you want to change your position now that I've educated you

You need to educate yourself first sunshine. Lets break down you uneducated comment.

(a) The Romans "killed Jesus" via crucifixion not the Jews.. They - the Jews _ could have killed him themselves and indeed they had tried to quite a few times but he is said to have escaped back to the bandit country of Galilee ( where else) where most, if not all of his chosen 12 zealots originated .

(b) The Jews wanted Jesus dead because they stood to lose their lucrative positions that afforded them a very high standard of living and lots of cash. And in their opinion Jesus was upsetting the status quo. They the puppet priests - needed an excuse and found one.

chose to overlook his miracles and pick a murderer instead.

Oh stop it! Are you telling me that the thousands that made up the multitudes simply decided that all his so called "miracles" weren't enough for them to offer their support.!? _ raising dead children and making blind people see! weren't enough? No one as far as we offered Pilate a witness statement referencing all the wonderous things he had been doing for the poor and needy in the country?

Unless of course there hadn't been any "miracles" performed at all but were simply initiation rituals with symbolic meanings, which is more likely the case and no "miracles" had been performed at all. Which happens to be my own belief.

Why do you insist on ripping Christianity apart when it improves the world while Islam actively makes it worse. Isn't your energy best spent elsewhere?

Why do you lot insist on ignoring the questions in the OP?

Stop crying and take on the questions. Its the bible that I am arguing about and scrutinizing and questioning. . And there are 4 or 5 questions that you ignored from the OP. Get o it or leave the thread,.

Stephen wrote:I didn't ask anyone to die for my crimes or sins or misdemeanours.

fauxlaw wrote: Fine. So what?

So why did someone take away my right to suffer for my own sins and crimes? I am a full grown adult and accept my sins and crimes to be mine alone.

Are you telling me that you'd let you brother or neighbour suffer for something you had done and were responsible for? While the BIBLE tells us that we are to take responsibility :

Proverbs 28:13, 1 John 1:9 Romans 3:23

There will come a time when you realize that you did ask.

Not that I remember and certainly not to my knowledge.

but you're really here now because you asked and accepted the fact.

Which fact?

Stephen admits he did not get enough education in his profile. “Not enough”.

Nice. So lets see the context in what I was admitting, shall we.

🧾 Personal information

https://www.debatecraft.com/users/Stephen

This is not to admit that I am uneducated or lack speciality of further education. It simply my belief that one can never have enough education and that we never stop learning.

I can see that I am going to have to keep repeating this for the thick and ignorant that seem to be of the belief that I am as thick and ignorant as they themselves are.

There is much information the Bible is missing. I am convinced there is much that is missing from what was originally written, whether by innocent misplacement, or deliberate deception, and everything in between.

I totally agree. Hence my often referencing to the many ambiguous half told stories in the bible- the New Testament in particular,.

For example, there is no record whatsoever that Mary, mother of Jesus, even met with him after his resurrection.

But there are references to Jesus rejecting his mother and refusing to see her before his torturous death.. She may have given him good reason when we read that she and other family members thought he was mentally ill.

The last contact with both his parents-we are told was when they negligently lost her holy charge; a gift from god too!. Although it is written that his mum turned up at the foot of cross when he died, but then again it is also written that the women were looking over a garden wall from afar at him hanging on the cross? Marvellous: the authors do not seem to agree on too much, do they? They even disagree on the date of the crucifixion too!!!?

Why are you asking me?

Christianity is a monotheism religion. They believe in a single God.

What they- YOU believe is not being argued here.

The first commandment in Exodus 20:3 you shall have no other gods before me.

Indeed and this would have been the god of the Hebrews; his own "treasured chosen people", would it not?

And again, why would this Hebrew god be commanding the Hebrew nation not to neither worship nor revile gods of other nations if no other gods existed?

Christianity is a monotheistic religion which mandates the worship of one God, Yahweh.

Who Christians have magically turned into a Christian god and called him Jesus ( Yeshua ben Yusuf).