Lunatic

Has he been caught as scum before ?

I took a few games off, so this is my first game with him. But pie told me a little bit about MAGA mafia, and he was pretty inactive in that one and from skimming it looks like he made a pretty bad claim in that one despite being able to ask the mod questions about characters. Him and David were scum and they got lynched DP1 and DP2. Like I said, his behavior does seem to contrast that here a little bit, and its a point I am weighing, just trying to decide if it outweighs all the other factors.

i buy the latter but you are def acting the strangest out of everyone and I’m really struggling to pin down whether it’s just poor play and scum slips or you are just new and nervous.

It could genuinely just be poor play. IE my point about khaosmage. Dude's playstyle eventually became if he wasn't offering crazy ideas or conspiracies you knew he was scum lol. Having not played with magoroth though, this is a very science lynch as much as it is a behavioral lynch. It will effect how I treat this behavior from him going forward if he is indeed town.

Until then, if it quacks like a duck...

Scratch what I said about Lunatic, I think me being angry makes me Town, not him. Him pushing this this hard makes him UBER CONFIDENT which is a SCUM TRAIT

It isn't about being super confident, I am okay with being wrong. Fact of the matter was that we had 4 hours left and you had admitted to lying and have been very reactive to little pressure, among other behaviors I pointed out. I never said you were confirmed scum or anything. If we had more time I would still be pressuring awesome5000 here. Also I think you are incorrect that being "confident" is a scum trait, because that would just make me look bad if you flipped town. It stands to reason that I am pushing you because I genuinely don't understand your behavior as opposed to being dead set that you are scum.

Vengeful does fit with the character. How specifically does it work? You kill the person who hammers you?

Ya know what, I’m scum to you no matter what I say. My entire fucking point id that this DOESN’T FUCKING MATTER. Who cares if I’m reactive or not? Some people are more reactive than others and it’s a perfectly valid way of getting reads. If yiu want to tunnel yourself into scumreading me, don’t fucking ask for my help in doing it, thanks.

You seem a little pissed, but for the record I am actually trying to be objective here. One thing I can say in your defense is you seem a lot more active in defending yourself than you did in the Maga game where you were scum. Pie told me a little bit about that one but I didn't read it fully, but your behavior is noticably different there. That said it doesn't really erase some of the problem points I brought up. At the very least if you flip town, I will have learned a bit about you and will know how to percieve you going forward. There is also a limited amount of time left, but yeah I was probably headed towards voting in your direction either way.

I am taking a step back because I actually have some nasty things to say and I’d rather not say them.

You can say em lol. You can ask anyone, we get heated in this game all the time. Me and pie have said many a nasty thing to one another in game, but when we go to the next one is a refresh and a restart. I obviously don't harbour any ill will towards anyone over a game. If that's different for you, it is what it is. I'll sleep okay tonight though.

oh shit, I didn't realize we have 4 hours left.

I am going to go ahead and unvote, vtl magoroth.

Because the setup says other roles and not just the Emperor can grant favour, so I assume can steal favour or redirect it.

So your logic is... If you claim framer, scum will steal favor from another town and gift it to you? Your interpretation of that comment by the mod is that you would rather garner favor from the enemy then from town? I just don't get this thinking as town. Like at all.

That’s really a stretch. Since when is reacting to other players SCUMMY? I have to get reads one way or the other, if I do it based on people’s reactions to me it’s perfeftly valid because I can gauge people’s reactions (when I’m not getting grilled) to me more easily than to others, for like… a million reasons.

The common theme is that ALL of your reads seem to be in some way based on how they have interacted with you though. Not other people, or not behaviors in general. Every single one of your reads is essentially omgus.

I figured Framer was just unbelievable enouhh of a claim that scum would not question it snd just assume I am telling the truth, plus they could send me favour which would end up helping me and harming them in the long run. Besides, no-claim draws attention, claiming Framer doesn’t (to scum).

What makes you think scum have the ability to give favor? Also for how hyper worried you are about the pressure you have on you, it seems strange that you are pretending to be more concerned with what scum think of you, despite full blown claiming without significant pressure or anyone asking you to.

VTL Mikal

you better claim. You just made me claim and now you’re CCing me without doing it.

No one made you claim bro. It might have been heading that way eventually, but you can't blame anyone else for your decisions here.

It seems to me she’s having trouble actually saying anything and when she does it’s stuff like that “Magoroth is erratic and scummy regardless of alignment”, which somehow manages to both 1) defend me and 2) say absolutely nothing, it’s just safe stuff that anyone who knows me can say

This feeds my point about how every single one of your reads seem to be based on how people react to you, not how their behavior impacts other players and the game. That is a trait I would expect of scum who are going to be more paranoid about their decisions and how they are perceived, then a town player who is looking to hunt scum.

I can, but I won’t. My role is useful when it isn’t known what it is. It’s useless or almost useless when claimed.

I wasn't asking for your role yet, I am asking why you felt the need to lie and claim framer as opposed to not claiming at all? Lying as town in general tends to backfire a lot. It can be done in extreme scenarios imo, but should be used wisely. You didn't have a significant amount of pressure. You were the topic of discussion a bit, but you seemed to inflate your own pressure by over-reacting to it. You weren't at L-1 or even close to being lynched. I really don't see why you lied and claimed framer here.

Why would a scum act shy in a Mafia game? Because they have trouble acting in a natural way and are trying to avoid drawing attention to themselves.

That's the thing, she isn't acting any differently than I've seen her act in other games. She seems like she's being normal wryly. What specifically in her posts did you think was "Shy"?

Fine, I’m not Framer. I don’t want to reveal my actual “last” role because it’s a useful one and its usefulness drops to zero if it’s claimed.

Can you explain why you felt the need to lie about this?

I think you’re intentionally misrepresenting my points. How the hell did you get from what I said that “Wryly is shy”? Why the hell would you think I am literally using LITERAL shyness as a scum trait?

Obviously, being “shy” with scare quotes is scummy, being shy, as in literally shy is not.

Not sure if you just skimmed the thread in like 5 mins or you’re just scum. Kinda feels like this is NAI but still wanted to mention it because it stuck out at me.

I get your emotional, but post 53:

First initial read is that Wryly seems kinda shy. It could be her personality, it could also be due to her alignment.

VTL Wryly

There is nothing to mis-interpret here, this was literally your read.

Okay some of the events of Mago's character are mentioned in my own role PM, or linked in a certain way. Based on what I am reading from his character I am getting strong vibes that he could be a poisoner.

She initially appeared naive, unaware, and reckless. Later, she proves to be very insane after killing another of the Empress Dowager's spies to whipping Ruyi for no reason just because she felt upset that she lost her son. She is used by Consort Jia to cause the first Empress's death.

She eventually became pregnant. Because of Empress Fuca's jealousy and Noble Consort Hui's hatred towards her, they used cinnabar to cause her child to be stillborn. They then framed Ruyi for this. To enact her own form of vengeance, she snuck into Yanxi Palace and attacked Ruyi. The Empress Dowager reprimanded her for this. Later in the story she is an instrument used by Consort Jia to cause the Empress's death and later caused Consort Qing's unborn child's death to the point that she cannot give birth again which she proudly admitted.

At the end of the story, Ruyi told her the truth and offered a death medicine by the Emperor so that way she can go with dignity. Her corpse was incinerated to prevent bad luck.

https://ruyis-royal-love-in-the-palace.fandom.com/wiki/Bai_Ruiji

All this plus I can't understand why the mod would put in a town framer lol.

I can be open minded here, but this honestly wouldn't be the worst dp1 lynch for the science. We aren't really losing town utility here. A roleblocker can be harmful to town as well, unless he somehow blocks the night kill. I just don't see how this role helps town, and there is strong reason to suggest mago is scum based on his role and behavior.

Anyways, still wanna hear from Awesome5000 so I am in no rush to lynch here.

Also, this is not true, Whiteflame did not ego boost me, he disagrees with most of what I said; wylted said I act openly scummy so I must be Town.

In your post, you basically based your entire read of whiteflame based on him validating you. Everyone of your reads is somehow linked to how they have read or interacted with you personally, rather than how they have played or analyzed the game.

And I gave reasons why Pie and Wryly are scum, don’t act like I made that up.

I didn't say you "made it up", I said the reasons were kind of bad. You OMGUS'ed pie, and you said wryly was "shy" as if being shy is a scum tell.

Pie is scum because he randomly brings up me claiming Watcher out of thr blue and says “oh shucks you’re gonna die” which is the exact thing I would say if I was Ninja. You can act like this is “unconvincing” but this is literally based off of personal experience of what I have done and other scum have done.

Feel free to link or reference said games, and I'd be happy to analyze the evidence, otherwise its just you saying this.

I don’t think you need to make a case for Roleblocker. Town Roleblocker is a thing.

That's literally what I just said. Re-read what I said to him. Are you being contrarian for the sake of being contrarian?

No, my theory is that you hitched yourself to the Magoroth wagon because it looked like an easy mislynch, which fits with the rest of your PoE being the then-inactives.

Okay so if you think I am pushing a mislynch it makes no sense that we would both be in your scum reads. Only makes sense if you think I am bussing. For this read to make sense you are admitting to some level of manufactured reads, because if I was scum for this read mago should be a town read.

Selection bias. You can point to the blatant scumslips because those are the ones you noticed and remembered.

I am just saying, certain people tend to make mistakes as mafia pretty consistently. Am I not correct in this? If I am then what seperates magoroth from those people? I am genuinely asking because I haven't played with him.

For example: Wylted often makes ballsy claims as scum and takes huges risks. That's been pretty consistent of him. Greyparrot just yolo claims his real role as mafia and hopes for the best. Shining claims dumb shit like "Asthetic" when pressured despite being given vanilla as a fake claim hint. That2user becomes super inactive and the few posts she makes are general answers to peoples questions. Mikal likes to bus and gambit and make big plays. ETC ETC. People tend to have consistent scum tells. From what I've heard from other players mago has a tendency to play badly as scum. Having not played with him I only can go off of what I've heard.

Which is meaningless if you don’t factor in how many times they weren’t scum.

If you can't use past behaviors and tells from people to analyze their behavior, how in the hell can you possibly hold anyone accountable for their actions and behavior?! lol

Fine. Watcher, Roleblocker are my odd/even night abilities. My final ability is Framer. Yes, I can frame people.

I haven’t yet looked at my flavour in any detail, would prefer not to claim this unless strictly necessary, but basically there’s a bunch of reasoning behind each action.

i should say i first become roleblocker, then watcher, then framer.

What is your character?

There really isn't a reason I could ever see for town to have a framer. You could make a case for roleblocker, but framer?

Thoth is also advocating the same thing because his role is just as powerful. What makes the posts so different in your opinion?

Can you clarify your question? You didn't quote me so I do not know what you are referencing.

Is it in your justification or your role mechanic. Don't want to push it too much but curious as to why

Don't really know how to answer that without giving away information, but yeah its the latter. I have a counter to poisoning at a certain rank.

With 5 hours I think it’s either Thoth or Mag and I still think mag is noob town. I’m fine with getting a full claim from mag and then picking him or Thoth off that. But we need a claim before we shot 

surprised you would be okay lynching mag if you think he’s town.

My only townreads are Wylted and Whiteflame, the latter for actually trying to understand what I’m saying and not just dismissing outright, even if he disagreed with it.

And your town reads are people who’ve ego boosted you lol. Also nice.

Anyway, my top scum reads are Pie, Wryly, Lunatic.

Okay so you basically scum reading everyone who scum reads you except wryly. Nice.

I have literally given multie reads?!?! What is this? Mamma mia

Yeah but my point is that your mechanical analysis seems to outweigh your interest in behavior hunting, I would expect town to be focused more on the latter. And no offense but your “behavioral reads” so far have been rather unconvincing.

Strange how everyone scumreads me but nobody wants to vote me. What kind of scum am I?!

We can’t let inactives skate. Also just because I scum read you doesn’t mean I am sold on lynching you right at this moment, but if time is closing and there is support for your lynch I’ll probably end up going that way barring no other bigger scum reads come about or my opinion on you doesn’t change by then.

Btw it’s interesting a major reason you are scum reading me is for my read on mago, yet you also list him as a scum read. So in other words your theory is we are bussing lol?

Whiteflame can back me up on this. I am spacing the name of the game off the top of my head, but there was a game in DART where I used the same defense Thoth is using for mago on Whiteflame. Whiteflame did something scummy and everyone was lynching him except me. I hardcore defended him with the logic “Whiteflame would never blatantly act this way as scum”. Turns out he was just scum and I looked like a fool for defending him.

Obviously this logic will change from player to player and I don’t know mago super well but there’s certain players that you just don’t give passes too for scummy behaviors and from what a few of you may have said so far, I don’t see why mago would be an exception here.

Lunatic: Slight scum. This is a pure gutread, but the amount of text he spent bashing Magoroth in post #233 compared to the rest of his reads in #234 triggered my scum-pushing-for-easy-day-1-mislynch alert, even though I generally agree with his points. Then saying that his PoE is two inactives and the guy that people are scumreading also strikes me as possible mislynch-pushing. Other than that, I like his posts.

The fact that you agree with my points about magoroth but scum read me for them I think is just paranoia. I can see what you and banana are saying that magoroth looks like an easy target, but lets face it, and feel free to prove me wrong, generally people as scum on this site are pretty blatant when they fuck up. I can point to several examples of this. I've stopped myself from lynching scum many a time because of that same logic you are using "They are so bad they must be town" when its often just the case that they are... just scum. Even you said earlier something about "im so wolfy I can't be a wolf". Except for a lot of the players here don't actually know or think they are being scummy when they are scum, I think its general obliviousness. That said I can't recall playing with mago, so if he's just pulling a shining here then it will be a lesson learned.

Til then, the way I will treat him is "If it quacks, waddles, and swims like a duck, it's probably a duck:.